Originally posted by Silent Master
No, he was intended to hit a pillar on a building in Gotham, which is what the movie actually shows. so what proof do you have that the pillar in Gotham was made of Limestone.
The pillars were actually made of limestone since they used the landmark as a basis for the feat.
Originally posted by h1a8
The pillars were actually made of limestone since they used the landmark as a basis for the feat.
If you want to bring RL into in, then what the movie people actually used was drywall and/or plaster.
So let's try this again, what proof do you have that the pillars that Bane hit were limestone.
Originally posted by Silent Master
If you want to bring RL into in, then what the movie people actually used was drywall and/or plaster.So let's try this again, what proof do you have that the pillars that Bane hit were limestone.
The pillars were intended to be the same pillars from Carnegie Mellon Institute. Just as WS was intended to break real concrete (instead of prop material).
Originally posted by RobtardDidn't the Engineer tear the android's head off with casual ease? IIRC androids in Alien have superhuman strength and durability. By contrast, a Predator was "merely" capable of knocking around Arnie in a physical confrontation. Maybe they do some crazy shit in one of the shitty movies I haven't seen though.
Think the Predator is stronger with showings. But you could be correct.
Originally posted by relentless1
throwing a huge crate one handed
Done using his grappling hook, not with his strength. He weighed more than the crate so he let it toss him for him.
punching a guy across the room,
Don't think it was too outside the realm of possibility, nor above Bane's one-handed lifting of Batman or his breaking of the mask.
chokeslamming a guy like he was a feather.,
Think that was a vertical suplex chokeslam, which is well-within the realms of possibility, and not nearly as impressive as Bane keeping Batman in the air with one hand on his neck. No human being can manage that IRL.
exploding through a wall..
That wall was made of like quarter inch drywall lol.
basically that entire warehouse fight shits on banes strength featsHonestly? Not really. I just watched the entire fight, and nothing there really puts him solidly above Bane. No feat is better than lifting a 200+ pound armoured man and holding him up there while walking with him, using a single hand on his neck. Nor does he break something as durable as, say, Batman's mask, by punching it.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, first of all, I do think Spidey jobbed, because it was a Cap movie. Same way Iron Man came across as much weaker than before so that Cap could win in the end there as well. And he didn't simply power out of it. He pulled his arms down, which changed the angle, throwing off Spidey's equilibrium, and then spun his entire body to pull him forward. Remember, Cap also has a mass advantage over Spiderman. Even if we high-ball Cap's best strength feat he is still at least 3 times weaker than Spiderman is, based on the jet bridge catch. And those feats are not influenced by combat skill, experience etc. It's pure muscle. But some people chalk it up to the "Russo-force" because, realistically, things like the helicopter feat are actually impossible. No matter how strong Cap is, he is still only like 220lbs. Which means the helicopter should just have taken off with him hanging from it, seeing as he had nothing to brace his feet against initially. Or for that matter, the bolts of the railing he eventually grabbed should actually have torn out of the concrete.The major jump for Cap occurred when the Russos took over for TWS, which was maintained in AoU (because they can't exactly power him down again), and then further amped when the Russos did Civil War. But they had no influence in TFA or the Avengers, which are the films we are comparing him to. Also, his own actual skill level has increased since Avengers. This is pretty clearly visible when he fights.
Loki has proven his combat skill multiple times as well, against Frost Giants, Dark Elves, and Thor himself (who he always fought with weapons, not purely H2H). Or do you think he managed to fight Thor based purely on strength levels? Also, why are you bringing up regular humans? They aren't as strong as Spiderman either, who Cap only ever sent flying when he was either off balance, or airborne, so unable to brace himself, whereas Loki had firm footing when Cap kicked him.
IMO, if you give MCU Spiderman Asgardian level durability, and a lot more XP, I could see him giving Thor a decent tussle, assuming Thor holds back to the same degree that he did against Loki.
Peter got kicked over by Falcon for gods sake while a jumping spin kick full force from Cap pushed Loki back one step. That's not just higher durability that's a full tier (at least) above. His only saving grace was holding up that walkway, which tbh I would be very surprised if he couldn't, Cap could likely hold up the same structure temporarily who we know is (significantly) physically weaker than Loki.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Then you have an extremely high view of Spider-Man. He fought no heavy hitters, and the heavy (ish) hitter in the film (Cap) treated him like a weak feeb who was given similar treatment by Loki, if you honestly believe Spider-Man with added durability can punch Thor hard enough to floor him, or throw Thor around with one arm we must have watched a different Civil War. Spider-Man couldn't even overpower plucking Captain America yet he's stronger than a rival of Thor. Makes sense.Peter got kicked over by Falcon for gods sake while a jumping spin kick full force from Cap pushed Loki back one step. That's not just higher durability that's a full tier (at least) above. His only saving grace was holding up that walkway, which tbh I would be very surprised if he couldn't, Cap could likely hold up the same structure temporarily who we know is (significantly) physically weaker than Loki.
I was going to write out a long reply to this, but then I saw the last sentence. You very clearly have no idea how much strength would be required to catch that jet bridge if you think Cap could replicate the feat. He is nowhere near strong enough to do it.
Cap is not that strong.
With his shield? I don't see why he couldn't briefly in a "holy shit" kind of moment, hell it's not as if Spidey could've held up that weight indefinitely he was struggling. Cap damn near pulled down a helicopter with one arm, we didn't know he was capable of feats of that level until we saw him do it. Spider-Man couldn't overpower Cap which is more important than any feats, they're clearly comparable and that's how they were portrayed in the film. I get Peter was possibly intended to come off as stronger but a significant gap like you are saying just wasn't evident.
More importantly do you think Loki couldn't replicate this feat or something? Would be pretty weak sauce for someone of his stature, he's got Frost Giant strength let's not forget that.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
With his shield? I don't see why he couldn't briefly in a "holy shit" kind of moment, hell it's not as if Spidey could've held up that weight indefinitely he was struggling. Cap damn near pulled down a helicopter with one arm, we didn't know he was capable of feats of that level until we saw him do it. Spider-Man couldn't overpower Cap which is more important than any feats, they're clearly comparable and that's how they were portrayed in the film. I get Peter was possibly intended to come off as stronger but a significant gap like you are saying just wasn't evident.More importantly do you think Loki couldn't replicate this feat or something? Would be pretty weak sauce for someone of his stature, he's got Frost Giant strength let's not forget that.
It's not only about holding the weight. Catching it is the impressive part, considering the impact force. The helicopter is nowhere near the jet bridge catch. It's not even in the same league. A helicopter like that has a maximum lift of about 3000lbs. The jet bridge, even ignoring the fact that it was falling, is 81,000lbs. And that's not even considering him casually catching a metal arm haymaker from Bucky, an arm which has overpowered Cap on multiple occasions (including CA:CW). The strength gap is very evident, as the helicopter curl and the jet bridge happened in the same movie. The fact that you are suggesting that pure feats of strength, which don't rely on other factors, are less important than a scenario where more than strength (such as technique, body mass and leverage) factored into the showing, to suggest that they are comparable, says it all.
To me, and pretty much everyone I have spoken to other than you, it was portrayed that Spiderman definitely outclassed Steve physically, but Steve managed to get the better of him via experience, as well as use of the terrain. And even then, many of those people still consider the fight as PIS.
Okay, I f***** the jet bridge weight. It's more like 60,000lbs. But that's still about 20 times greater than the maximum lift of the helicopter used in CA:CW (an AS350 Airbus). And, again, that's ignoring the distance it actually fell, which would have increased the amount of force Spiderman would have had to counter to successfully catch it.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Spider-Man stronger than Loki? Wtf? You think Spider-Man can have a competitive h2h fight with Thor? Same Spider-Man who was owned by Captain America, same Cap who looked like a child against Loki? Makes sense.Luke and Loki ARE stronger than Cap. Strength feats aren't the only criteria to gauge a persons strength.
I agree with Sorrow's logic here. Powerscaling is important sometimes. Loki's fight against Cap does imply his strength to be far beyond Cap's.
And the difference seems a lot larger than the difference between Cap and Spidey.
And sure Thor holds back against Loki, but their fights were still pretty serious, so it's not like Thor was just playing around with him.
For that matter how do we even gauge Thor's tremendous strength? Because he doesn't have much in terms of lifting feats, or catching/chucking huge vehicles. But him going toe to toe against Hulk tells us a lot right away.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I agree with Sorrow's logic here. Powerscaling is important sometimes. Loki's fight against Cap does imply his strength to be far beyond Cap's.And the difference seems a lot larger than the difference between Cap and Spidey.
And sure Thor holds back against Loki, but their fights were still pretty serious, so it's not like Thor was just playing around with him.
For that matter how do we even gauge Thor's tremendous strength? Because he doesn't have much in terms of lifting feats, or catching/chucking huge vehicles. But him going toe to toe against Hulk tells us a lot right away.
To a degree powercaling can be factored in. But, again, Cap's strength and skill feats only really picked up from TWS and onwards, after his fight with Loki. Up until then, the majority of his feats involved tossing humans around, which Loki and Spiderman can easily do as well. As I pointed out, Cap struggled to bend a metal railing in TFA, using both arms. Someone who can curl a helicopter should have been able to do that easily, one-handed.
Also, things like the jet bridge completely crap on things like the helicopter. And Cap got overwhelmed by Winter Soldier's metal arm alone, despite having his legs braced and pushing back with both arms, in CW. The same arm Spiderman casually caught and overpowered. Which, again, is why I maintain their fight was massive PIS. Based on all the other feats we have available, Spiderman is significantly stronger than Cap is. Their fight is inconsistent with multiple other strength showings.
Also, again, Loki is much more durable than Spiderman, and a much more experienced fighter. Remove Loki's durability and combat skill, and how long do you see his fights with Thor lasting?
And the knocking back to gauge strength argument doesn't really work, as it also depends on more than strength, and is inconsistent in the films in anyways. A guy who takes a thrust kick has a lot greater chance of being knocked back if he has a relaxed stance than if he had been bracing his legs and tensed his core at the right moment (i.e. technique and experience). Also, a single repulsor from Iron Man sent Loki flying back, knocking him on his ass, in a similar manner to Cap, Bucky, and even Falcon. So, using that logic, Loki is no stronger than Falcon is, yet we know this is far from the truth.
But anyway, I don't think the difference is that big in anyways. They're both two of the physically strongest characters in the MCU IMO, so I am happy to leave it at that. Besides, both of them will be appearing in films again later this year, so it should give us a more clear indicator than what we have now.
Originally posted by h1a8
He was intended to.
The same as WS didn't hit and bust real concrete.
Except that the supposed concrete that WS broke actually looked and reacted like concrete.
The pillars didn't look anything at all like limestone. A movie with the budget as big as TDKR have enough money for special effects to make something that's supposed to be concrete/stone look and react like concrete/stone. The fact that they didn't make it so means that they never intended it to be concrete or stone.