Rank These Characters Based On Strength

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
I wish people would stop using Civil War fights for comparison and just look at raw strength feats - because in Civil War power levels flip flop between fights, or even within the same fight
For example, in the first Bucky vs Panther fight. Bucky is struggling to hold back Panther's arm with his metal arm but he is able to do the same thing with his normal arm despite his metal arm being supposedly stronger. You could chalk that up to position. Then when they fight again, T'challa with suit pries the metal arm off his throat, and even without the suit, shakes off a punch from the metal arm, ignores a punch from Buck's normal arm and armbars the metal arm. BP also utterly demolishes Bucky in H2H. And Bucky has been shown to be pretty even with Cap with the metal arm being stronger. So we would expect a fight betweet Cap and BP would be in Panther's favor. Then what happens? They grapple equally and Cap beats him down while fending off War Machine
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The suit seems capable of counteracting the metal arm. It happens twice during the film, as you pointed out, which suggests it is not just down to strength. Because Bucky's metal arm was powering out of BP's armbar (you can see his arm rising, even though T'Challa was using both his own arms, and had leverage) when he was not in his suit, and T'Challa realised it, which is why he chose to send them tumbling down the stairs. And during that encounter, they seemed pretty even overall, even though Bucky's priority was escaping to the roof, not fighting (Bucky got the better of the first exchange and BP the better of the second).

When he fought a suited up BP, he was not fighting to kill, unlike T'Challa. He was trying to explain himself. And he had no gear, whereas T'Challa was kitted out in full vibranium armour (which gives BP a massive durability edge). T'Challa also had no real interest in fighting Cap. He just wanted him out of the way. He was flat out trying to murder Bucky. And Cap had his shield as well. Whatever advantage Bucky's arm normally grants him was shown to be effectively nullified by BP's suit.

So, those particular fights aren't actually that bad if you take everything into consideration. The Spiderman battle was PIS though, IMO. And Tony's Civil War suit was pretty weak compared to previous models.

Anyway back to inconsistencies when Spidey fights Bucky and Falcon. Not only does Spidey spectacularly crush them, he treats Bucky's metal arm like a joke, not just the punch catch. When Spidey kicks Falcon, and Bucky tries to block it with his metal arm, it only results in him sent flying along with Sam. And this is to be expected, with Spidey's lone strength feat of stopping cold a speeding car outstripping their's. So far so good. Then Spidey fights Cap (whose always been shown to be weaker than the metal arm), and webs both of Cap's hands and starts to pull at them from behind, yet Cap manages to stay in his place and make Spidey struggle in the tug of war despite the leverage advantage, and for that he would have to be stronger than Spidey! This makes even less sense even when you consider him grappling equally with Panther, as Panther wrestled with the metal arm clearly took an effort, while Spidey was playing with it.

And Spidey in another similar cycle involving Iron Man and Giant Man as well. GM shruggs of WM's missiles to the face, yet Spidey makes him cry out with his swinging kick. Not even WM's and IM's combined flying uppercut did not get the same reaction. Then later Tony has no problem blocking Spidey's punch or restraining him with a damaged armor, but with lot less damage gets overpowered by Bucky and Cap

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
The power creep wasn't that huge in TWS. I actually argued with a guy at Reddit that most things Cap did in TWS looks doable when you carefully observe his TFA and MTA feats

I disagree there, because I am talking about an overall power creep, not just strength. I suppose one could chalk it up to more screen time to give him more room to shine, but some of his durability, stamina and agility feats from TWS would be hard to believe going just by the first two films he was in. But my point still stands. From his first appearance to his latest appearance, Steve has gotten a notable upgrade across the board.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Anyway back to inconsistencies when Spidey fights Bucky and Falcon. Not only does Spidey spectacularly crush them, he treats Bucky's metal arm like a joke, not just the punch catch. When Spidey kicks Falcon, and Bucky tries to block it with his metal arm, it only results in him sent flying along with Sam. And this is to be expected, with Spidey's lone strength feat of stopping cold a speeding car outstripping their's. So far so good. Then Spidey fights Cap (whose always been shown to be weaker than the metal arm), and webs both of Cap's hands and starts to pull at them from behind, yet Cap manages to stay in his place and make Spidey struggle in the tug of war despite the leverage advantage, and for that he would have to be stronger than Spidey! This makes even less sense even when you consider him grappling equally with Panther, as Panther wrestled with the metal arm clearly took an effort, while Spidey was playing with it.

And Spidey in another similar cycle involving Iron Man and Giant Man as well. GM shruggs of WM's missiles to the face, yet Spidey makes him cry out with his swinging kick. Not even WM's and IM's combined flying uppercut did not get the same reaction. Then later Tony has no problem blocking Spidey's punch or restraining him with a damaged armor, but with lot less damage gets overpowered by Bucky and Cap

Honestly, one of the dumbest moments is during the end fight. Close to the beginning of the fight, Winter Soldier throws a metal arm haymaker (similar to what he threw at suitless T'Challa and Spiderman) and Tony catches it without much trouble. But later on that same arm gets out-muscled and pushed up by Bucky's flesh arm.

But, yeah, the power fluctuation/inconsistency with CA:CW is my biggest gripe with the film. But I always knew it was going to happen. When you have a dozen heroes fighting onscreen, and many of them fighting each other at various points, power levels are going to fluctuate a lot for the sake of plot progression.

Oops, didn't see your reply Vault. I said Bucky got owned h2h because BP got in several hits while Bucky got in only a couple. Heck, one even looked like a lucky shot
And yep, the CW armor was embarassingly weak. And at first I thought Cap and Bucky beating up Tony was bad. Then I watched the movid again and saw Falcon forcefully drag a helpless IM across the airport. Go figure.

And Tony atleast has the excuse of his armors having varying performance. What of the other characters when then are weakened for plot? Three such scenes is when Bucky is escaping from the CIA. At Bucky's apartment, Bucky appears to nearly KO Steve when he throws Steve out through a window. Then the cop who got throwh out with him grapples with Cap and gives him trouble! Then WS mode Bucky owning Steve. The metal arm was always stronger than Steve, but I felt that scene was too. Overpowering both of Steve's arms to get in a stab with a little struggle is doable. Casually overpowering Steve and throwing him hard enough break through elevator doors and KTFO him? That's a little too much imo. Then there are some CIA operatives still being conscious after being punched by the metal arm, and he was not going easy on them since he guns them down seconds later. Or Nat not having even a weal on her after being choked by the metal arm, when it was making that whirring noise indicating he was upping it above normal, and she looked almost as good as Steve there. Or Bucky's arm being held down by that press.

On a related note, my friend thinks that Tony making Bucky cry out by smacking him with his unarmored hand using the gun slide was PIS, since BW punched him in the crotch and Sharon kicked him in the face and yet it did not get that volatile a reaction. She reasons that for it to happen like that Tony has to be much stronger than them, which can't be possible since Tony is not known for being physically formidable and BW is someone with a lot of cred as a physical combatant. What do you think Vault?

The question is, who else can be said to be Cap's equal other than BP or WS?

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
On a related note, my friend thinks that Tony making Bucky cry out by smacking him with his unarmored hand using the gun slide was PIS, since BW punched him in the crotch and Sharon kicked him in the face and yet it did not get that volatile a reaction. She reasons that for it to happen like that Tony has to be much stronger than them, which can't be possible since Tony is not known for being physically formidable and BW is someone with a lot of cred as a physical combatant. What do you think Vault?

Eh, I don't read much into that. Was likely just for stylistic effect purposes. It's not like it actually did any damage, because literally right after Tony hits Bucky the latter puts him on his ass and out of the fight.

I really think the Bucky vs BP should have been more even, that alone would solve a lot of the inconsistencies.

Then show Spiderman easily overpowering Cap and Cap clearly winning only by outsmarting him.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I really think the Bucky vs BP should have been more even, that alone would solve a lot of the inconsistencies.

Then show Spiderman easily overpowering Cap and Cap clearly winning only by outsmarting him.

Well, like I mentioned before, BP had a suit and claws, whereas the metal arm's strength seemed totally negated, so gear would give T'Challa a huge edge. I mean Bucky did land quite a number of hits on him during the airport fight (like a hard metal arm uppercut right under the chin, for example), but none of them had any real effect.

What actually bugged me about Winter Soldier during most of the movie is the lack of gear. He was always packing multiple weapons in TWS, and was also armed in the CW flashback. Yet the only thing he carried during the chase, even though he had his escape route planned, was some explosives he used in the tunnel, and he pitched up with diddly squat for the airport fight. I've seen some people be like, "He didn't know they were going to have to fight", which would have been fine if virtually everyone else in his team hadn't been geared up, despite him being one of the most experienced combatants on the team. Not to mention they were actually heading for a fight with the other 5 Winter Soldiers. If the Quinjet they stole didn't have weapons on it, what was he going to use?

I agree on the Spiderman/Cap thing though.

But yeah, I view the Bucky vs suited Black Panther like this: Imagine giving Cap Luke Cage's almost unbreakable skin and soft tissue, making him bloodlusted, adding his shield, and then neutralising Bucky's metal arm's strength advantage. Under those stips, Cap would beat the holy hell out of him. Or on the flip side, give Bucky Luke's durability, make him go for the kill, and then make him fight suit-less and weaponless BP or Cap. All of them would end up being somewhat one-sided.

On a random note, I was rewatching the first ASM, and noticed a pretty insane strength feat for Garfield Spidey that seemingly everyone overlooked. During the carjacking scene, he webs up the guy's mouth and nose and, after checking for a tattoo on the guy's wrist, pokes nose holes in the webbing with his hand. And, earlier in the film, the webbing is described as being 10x stronger than steel, and tough enough to tow a commercial passenger plane. Which also makes me appreciate Lizard's strength, as well as how sharp his claws are, as he was able to tear through those webs without much trouble.

There was no power creep between the Cap films there was just more of a focus on his physical strength. His strength was still impressive in FA.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
My list:
Loki
Luke Cage~Spider Man
Cap
Engineer/Predator
Bane
Batman
Olympic Bench Presser
I agree on powerscaling Loki should be stronger

Same Cap who got destroyed by Bucky earlier in the movie - the same Bucky who along with Falcon was owned by Spidey
And Cap didn't own him per se, he just got in more hits with his skill, and in the beginning Spidey was smacking him around

I agree

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Cap owned him bro, sonned him and Spidey is supposedly way stronger. Everyone I saw Civil War with was shocked that Spidey couldn't overpower Cap. He flat out resisted Pete's strength, that's undeniable, then used experience to break free.

But there's a flaw. Spider-Man easily overpowered WS arm. And WS >>>>>both Caps arms.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
There was no power creep between the Cap films there was just more of a focus on his physical strength. His strength was still impressive in FA.

Disagree. Will have to locate the interview but Evans himself says during a WS interview that Cap keeps training so keeps getting better, hence the emphasis on Evans himself getting into even better shape to portray that.

But I agree it won't be some huge strength amp. And yeah he was still pretty damn strong in TFA.

The notion that there is no power creep between films is false. As pointed out above, Evans himself has pointed it out.

Originally posted by h1a8
But there's a flaw. Spider-Man easily overpowered WS arm. And WS >>>>>both Caps arms.

Just like there is a flaw in that all SG's other feats contradict the key feat, yet according to you the key feat trumps all.

Have you ever heard of the term "double standards"?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just like there is a flaw in that all SG's other feats contradict the key feat, yet according to you the key feat trumps all.

Have you ever heard of the term "double standards"?