Originally posted by Darth ThorCap never overpowered Spidey.
As is Cap overpowering Spider-Man. Or pushing a bulldozer way faster than Deathlok.
Let's analyze the scene.
1. Strength plays no role in a tug of war on flat ground when maximum static friction force is reached. This force is proportional to weight. Cap weighs more and thus has a larger static friction force. That's why a heavy guy will never lose to a much lighter guy even if the lighter guy is stronger.
Or disregarding 1. above
2. Cap wasn't able to overpower Spidey with pure strength. This is because Spidey held him in place while Cap was using ALL OF HIS MIGHT. Cap momentarily gave in to the pull (to create slack) and use his acrobatics to create greater leverage to pull Spidey (exceed Spidey's static friction force).
So it's not a strength feat at all.
Originally posted by h1a8
Cap never overpowered Spidey.
Even if he did then it would a be a low showing for Spidey. Thus Cap overpowered a weak being in that scene.Let's analyze the scene.
1. Strength plays no role in a tug of war on flat ground when maximum static friction force is reached. This force is proportional to weight. Cap weighs more and thus has a larger static friction force. That's why a heavy guy will never lose to a much lighter guy even if the lighter guy is stronger.Or disregarding 1. above
2. Cap wasn't able to overpower Spidey with pure strength. This is because Spidey held him in place while Cap was using ALL OF HIS MIGHT. Cap momentarily gave in to the pull (to create slack) and use his acrobatics to create greater leverage to pull Spidey (exceed Spidey's static friction force).
So it's not a strength feat at all.
Huh, for once we actually agree. I've pointed out more than once before that leverage and respective mass played a role in that whole scenario, so it's not the best representation of physical strength.
After all, I don't see Cap catching a 27 ton jet bridge, and we know he can't outmuscle Bucky's metal arm.
Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Huh? I thought the jet bridges of the size spidey caught were in the range of 11-15 tons.
Also, I have heard claims of the metal beam Cap lifted off of Bucky in TWS to be around 50 tons.
According calcs two different guys did on Youtube it's 27 tons (the video from one of them is linked in this very thread). And that's ignoring the fact that it actually dropped a couple of feet before he caught it, which greatly amplifies the amount of force he would have needed to produce to stop it.
I have seen people on ComicVine claim the 50 ton number, but I have never seen a single one of them actually provide any calculations to support it. And I am not taking anything people on that site says at face value.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Disagree. Will have to locate the interview but Evans himself says during a WS interview that Cap keeps training so keeps getting better, hence the emphasis on Evans himself getting into even better shape to portray that.But I agree it won't be some huge strength amp. And yeah he was still pretty damn strong in TFA.
I guess you could argue he is OVERALL more formidable through training factoring in all stats but Vault and one or two others have pushed the notion he is significantly physically more powerful than before. I disagree with that, he was doing exactly the same things as before but obviously with far less screen time devoted to feats because he was puny for a chunk of the film and "the audience" needed to be introduced to what Captain America was/represented before the real action started. Once it did he was still jumping ridiculous distances, throwing huge men around casually, soloing armies etc.
If you watched FA, then following films you would not be surprised by anything Cap did strengthwise bar maybe the helicopter feat, but that has been described as mother lifting a car to save a baby type of feat. It was his absolute max.
His fight against Loki absolutely still stands, and he was a few notches below that level in almost all stats bar maybe agility.
You're a Thor fan let me ask you... Do you see Spider-Man with Lokis durability only doing well against Thor? Better than Loki did?
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I said a combination of improved durability AND nearly a thousand years worth of XP added (like Loki has). Also never said he would do better. I just said he could potentially give Thor a tussle. But hey, keep misrepresenting what I said.
Big difference between comparable and better. Also, consider the reverse. If you replaced Loki's durability with Spiderman's, and removed roughly a 1000 years of tutelage under Odin, as well as training and battling among people on his own level throughout the Nine realms, and replacing it with maybe 6 months of fighting nobody humans on the streets, Loki would get absolutely curbstomped by Thor. Even more so than he does now when Thor actually gets serious.