How the hell can Superman beat Silver Surfer? · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by darthgoober
Definately looks to be flying outwards to me. And any ambiguity of the artwork should be stiffled by the fact that it's an energy "discharge"

😂

The speed lines are drawn towards the center. Don't tell me you can't even see that.

The debris are sucked in, not flying outwards. The sheer stupidity here is mind boggling

facepalm

Cogito Senior Member

My two favorite things about this discussion:

1. Nobody fucking cares about the semantics of the feat. Surfer created a black hole, and that's all that matters.

2. The truth of it is that the explosion is a side effect of creating a black hole. Now follow along here: The black hole is a consequence of an explosion which was a consequence of Surfer energy discharge. But, since the black hole is the primary intended effect, that makes the explosion the secondary or side effect of creating a black hole not the black hole itself. English is a bitch.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Anyway, I will ask for a mod rulling. This is the most useless discussion I've ever had on this forum, and it's already 7 pages.

Originally posted by Cogito
My two favorite things about this discussion:
1. Nobody fucking cares about the semantics of the feat. Surfer created a black hole, and that's all that matters.
2. The truth of it is that the explosion is a side effect of creating a black hole. Now follow along here: The black hole is a consequence of an explosion which was a consequence of Surfer energy discharge. But, since the black hole is the primary intended effect, that makes the explosion the secondary or side effect of creating a black hole not the black hole itself. English is a bitch.

People here pretend that calling it 'side effect' intrinsically makes it more impressive.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂
The speed lines are drawn towards the center. Don't tell me you can't even see that.
The debris are sucked in, not flying outwards. The sheer stupidity here is mind boggling
facepalm

There are no speedlines beyond those generated by Surfer. We do see the travel path of the asteroids and such, but to me it definately looks like they're flying outward. That's why the ones in front of Surfer are motionless, because he's flying in front of the shockwave

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Cogito
My two favorite things about this discussion:
1. Nobody fucking cares about the semantics of the feat. Surfer created a black hole, and that's all that matters.
2. The truth of it is that the explosion is a side effect of creating a black hole. Now follow along here: The black hole is a consequence of an explosion which was a consequence of Surfer energy discharge. But, since the black hole is the primary intended effect, that makes the explosion the secondary or side effect of creating a black hole not the black hole itself. English is a bitch.

That's like lining 5 dominoes up in a row, pushing the one in front to knock them down, and saying that the first fell as a side effect of the last one falling. It's simply not the case.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Philosophía
Intent is never mentioned in the definition? Goober, goober, why are you lying like this?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/side--effect
quote:
any effect of a drug, chemical, or other medicine that is in addition to its intended effect
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dic...y/side%20effect
quote:
: a result of an action that is not expected or intended
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...ish/side-effect
quote:
an unpleasant effect of a drug that happens in addition to the main effect
The end-result that Surfer wanted was to have a black hole. His energy discharge was to reach that purpose. Thus the main effect of his action was the black hole. It was expected and it was intended - by definition it's not a side-effect. There is no 'side effect'.

Hey I'm going back and forth between what you and abhi said, I'm not pretending that I'm closely following what's going on between you and Smurph as I'm only reading it in passing. I thought that's what he said and posted proof to support it, but it's entirely possible that I misread what was going on.

-Pr- Hey Yo!

Did someone post the relevant scan of the black hole creation in this thread?

Smurph tu quoqumber

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂
Did he now? Why wasn't it mentioned on the recap?
They should have just mentioned he 'generated' a big explosion.

Oh no, I'm just asking you for your take:

Did Surfer generate an energy discharge? Not per the recap, just per English.

----

That said I'm also happy to leave things here. I think it's not incorrect to describe it either as the intended effect, or as a side effect of his energy discharge, and the 'more correct' version really depends on what you're trying to emphasize.

It's one thing to say that Surfer is powerful enough to create a black hole, it's another to say that he can, with relative ease, produce an energy discharge large enough to bring about a black hole. I think that the second is more impressive, and I get that this feat is already loaded with space cheese, but these are comics, so...

Rao Kal El DJ FrostByte

Calling it "side effect" makes it sound more of what it is. As if it was casually and campy.

But is not the first time Surfer feats get that extra wording spice to try to make them look more of what they are. IMO

panthergod Restricted

a E2 .

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by -Pr-
Did someone post the relevant scan of the black hole creation in this thread?

Yes. Most of the arguement at this point is whether or not it's horribly misleading to say that the formation of the black hole that resulted from Surfer's energy discharge was a side effect of said blast. Yes, that's seriously what Phil and abhi are freaking out about. So does such a statement qualify as lying/trolling by your definition?

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

Originally posted by Smurph
It's one thing to say that Surfer is powerful enough to create a black hole, it's another to say that he can, with relative ease, produce an energy discharge large enough to bring about a black hole. I think that the second is more impressive, and I get that this feat is already loaded with space cheese, but these are comics, so...

The latter statement is true also

Cogito Senior Member

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's like lining 5 dominoes up in a row, pushing the one in front to knock them down, and saying that the first fell as a side effect of the last one falling. It's simply not the case.

You're thinking about it wrong. The first falling is not a side effect of the last one falling, it's a side effect of the process that knocks down the last one.

Or you can look at it as a series of events rather than a single event. In that case, you don't have any side effects. The primary (intended) effect of your tap (or whatever) is to knock down domino #1 with the primary (intended) effect of knocking down #2 and so on. No side effects.

Smurph tu quoqumber

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I'm going back and forth between what you and abhi said, I'm not pretending that I'm closely following what's going on between you and Smurph as I'm only reading it in passing. I thought that's what he said and posted proof to support it, but it's entirely possible that I misread what was going on.

The 'problem' is basically that there are multiple definitions. Some of them specifically refer to medicine, etc. What's out of scope for one definition (intentional consequence) isn't out of scope for others.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Cogito
You're thinking about it wrong. The first falling is not a side effect of the last one falling, it's a side effect of the process that knocks down the last one.
Or you can look at it as a series of events rather than a single event. In that case, you don't have any side effects. The primary (intended) effect of your tap (or whatever) is to knock down domino #1 with the primary (intended) effect of knocking down #2 and so on. No side effects.

Let's face it, the battle over semantics will likely be put to rest one way or the other once Pr chimes in again and not before, we might as well just wait for him to make a ruling on it.

Cogito Senior Member

Let's face it, the battle over semantics is just a bunch of bored people. The truth is Surfer created a black hole with little effort and the rest doesn't matter.

Smurph tu quoqumber

Originally posted by Cogito
Let's face it, the battle over semantics is just a bunch of bored people. The truth is Surfer created a black hole with little effort and the rest doesn't matter.

I mean... yeah, this is true.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Cogito
Let's face it, the battle over semantics is just a bunch of bored people. The truth is Surfer created a black hole with little effort and the rest doesn't matter.

Hey I agree, it's a dumb arguement. It's the ones flipping out over it being referred to as a side effect that seem to think it's actually a big deal. It's not like those citing the feat are trying to pretend that it was an accident, it's those on the other side that seem to think it's being portrayed as such and are outraged by it. As if it being accidental would bolster the feat somehow... whether accident or intentional the same theoretical amount of energy would be required to accomplish it.

Ambient MAJIN_OVERLORD

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, what? Thing and Spider-Man have survived Ultimate Nullifier as well.
Surfer and Morg's combined blast defeated Morg as Morg was already dazed when he crash landed on the planet.
LMAO, what? Are you back for your yearly ass whooping?
Surfer didn't even ko Ravenous AFTER he killed his curr.
Don't send a surfer to do a ronan's job.

Morg's own energy is damaging him "what" now??

U ask, I give u some answer but of course u have to downplay every single feat examples given ? lol's anyhow! Really am not in any mood for a debate, it's a nice day.. aribarachi! Keep on posting!

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Ambient
Morg's own energy is damaging him "what" now??
U ask, I give u some answer but of course u have to downplay every single feat examples given ? lol's anyhow! Really am not in any mood for a debate, it's a nice day.. aribarachi! Keep on posting!

Yeah if anything, Morg putting out energy of his own actually increases the impressiveness of the feat because it means that Surfer put out enough power to overwelm Morg's energy with enough left over to KO him.