How the hell can Superman beat Silver Surfer?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'll even help you with the herald and trans tier list and list out the characters who have knocked out Superman via raw power only. I listed the characters who have fought Superman.

Amazon (Once with the power of over 35 characters including his own) , Appolyon, The Asgardian Destroyer, Black Racer (No) , Blackheart, Blaze, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Desert (One win, one loss) , The Doctor, Doomsday (Only koed combined with Brainiac ), Dr. Fate (No) , Eclipse (No) , Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Ferns (TP) , GOG (Yes, but he is skyfather level) , Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current) (No) , Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables( No, even Depowered Superman fought her) , Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott)(No) , Silver Age Kryptonians/Dax a mites (No) , Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor (No, defeated her) , Sun Eater (No) , Superboy Prime (No, not even combination with Time Trapper's power) , Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Tier 3 - Herald
High
Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman (No, outright defeated several times and even amped couldn't defeat him) , Dr. Strange (classic), Doomsday (Gog Wars)(No) , The Eradicator (Fortress Mode) (No) , Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan)(No) , Infinity-Man (No, not even when he was amped) , Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro (No) , Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Swamp Thing (No, he did to Rebirth Superman but he was weakened) , Talisman, Thor(No) Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)(No)

You are welcome to add more heralds if you want.

You're saying that none of those people could knock out the average Superman, no matter how hard they tried?

That's straight ****ing lunacy to me, but still, thanks for the "help".

Originally posted by -Pr-
You're saying that none of those people could knock out the average Superman, no matter how hard they tried?

Where did I say that? I said that this is the list of characters in herald and trans tier category who have fought Superman and knocked him out.

That's straight ****ing lunacy to me, but still, thanks for the "help".

If you want, I can post the scans of all the fights as well.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Where did I say that? I said that this is the list of characters in herald and trans tier category who have fought Superman and knocked him out.

If you want, I can post the scans of all the fights as well.

Actually, I misread this earlier post:

Originally posted by abhilegend
Could? Perhaps if we allow them to blast him un-interrupted.

In a fight? Not really. He is just too tough for any herald level character to best with raw power.

Still not ideal, but better than what I thought you said.

It's unclear what is being argued anymore. Are we arguing an all-out, ready to kill fight that still follows classic comic patterns? Or are we arguing whether Superman can realistically beat the Surfer. (The answer to the latter being an obvious no.)

It's true I just remember that even Byrne era Superman was able to withstand attacks from Pre Crisis Kryptonians.

Current Superman is a beast compared to Byrne Era Superman.

Surfer will have a tought time and lose in the end.

Has Superman REALLY become that much more powerful than the Byrne days? Feats aside, back then he was sparring with Wonder Woman, and they called them the two most powerful beings on Earth, with Superman having a bit more power. Flash forward thirty years and it's still basically the same thing. How many new suits has Iron Man gone through to still basically occupy the same place on the totem poll?
At best one could say that post-Byrne, Superman had more of his occasional Trans+ -level appearances. It's complex and often contradictory, is all I'm saying, when it comes to most 'permanent' powerups.

All I am saying is that even Byrne era Superman is capable of facing a pre crisis kryptonian

That alone speaks volumes of how tough the guy is. PC kryptonians are in the trans tier level.

So seeing how he can face a pre crisis kryptonian it would not be "crazy" to believe that he can defeat the Surfer.

Of course there is opinions on the matter. But that is basically all I am saying. That if this guy can actually contest a PC kryptonian than maybe he is tougher than what many might believe.

Personally I think he will win of course, but I can see why some other might believe SS wins.

Yeah. Byrne Superman faced them, as did a more modern Superman when he fought Superboy Prime. Granted, it's two different versions of a Pre-Crisis Kryptonian, but they seemed to perform on similar levels.

At any rate, no doubt Superman can hold his own against Surfer. In fact, I think he's an overwhelming favorite in a classic comicbook brawl. The X-factor is exotic power usage, and that's pretty hard to rate in terms of how often it would be used, and what effect it would have, if used.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I was asked to take a look, and I did. My opinion is that it isn't a side-effect in the sense that he intended to do it (and yes, I'm away of the various meanings the term can have).

I'm not making a mod ruling, but I really don't get what the issue is here, or what difference it would make to the fight at hand.

And I totally agree in regards to the arguement's overall irrelevancy, I actually think that was kinda the point. You know the way SJWs raise a fuss about something they don't like hearing in hopes that either the powers that be either enforce their preferences or just shut the entire discussion down? Pretty sure this whole thing was something along those lines.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you are not able to see the white lines going inwards in a circle?

Originally posted by abhilegend
The combined energy discharge destroyed the planet. It wasn't Surfer overpowering Morg and destroying the planet solo.

Don't talk nonsense.

I didn't say anything about the destruction of the planet, I said that Surfer's energy overpowered Morg's and KO'd him.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And I totally agree in regards to the arguement's overall irrelevancy, I actually think that was kinda the point. You know the way SJWs raise a fuss about something they don't like hearing in hopes that either the powers that be either enforce their preferences or just shut the entire discussion down? Pretty sure this whole thing was something along those lines.

Nobody is silencing you - you're free to call it side-effect. And you'll get called dumb, again. Rinse and repeat.

Did you get triggered by Pr's patriarchal oppression, after I got through mansplaining you how logic and words work?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
It's true I just remember that even Byrne era Superman was able to withstand attacks from Pre Crisis Kryptonians.

Current Superman is a beast compared to Byrne Era Superman.

Surfer will have a tought time and lose in the end.

Originally posted by Philosophía
You're not really taking this very well, if you think calling me a SJW for correcting your profoundly wrong wording is the way to go.

Nobody is silencing you - you're free to call it side-effect. And you'll get called dumb, again. Rinse and repeat.

Did you get triggered by Pr's patriarchal oppression, after I got through mansplaining you how logic and words work?

There's no doubt that the inter-Kryptonian power hierarchy at DC is riddled with inconsistencies.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Patriarchal oppression... he didn't make a ruling lol

You're getting triggered hardcore about this, if you feel the need to go "you're such a SJW!". Maybe take a step back and move on.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
There's no doubt that the inter-Kryptonian power hierarchy at DC is riddled with inconsistencies.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Yet you're still crying about being silenced and having the discussion shut down.

You're getting triggered hardcore about this, if you feel the need to go "you're such a SJW!". Maybe take a step back and move on.

Also, please not that I didn't call you an SJW. I know for a fact that you're not via discussions in the off topic thread. I simply pointed out the similarity of what was happening to what SJWs frequently do because you were trying to get those in authority to enforce your prefered usage of the language.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He made no attempt to silence me Phil. You may have wanted that he step in and tell people to stop using the phrase, but that's not what happened. AND he pointed out that arguing about the usage was irrelevant and served no real purpose.

Also, please not that I didn't call you an SJW. I know for a fact that you're not via discussions in the off topic thread. I simply pointed out the similarity of what was happening to what SJWs frequently do because you were trying to get those in authority to enforce your prefered usage of the language.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You offered to get a mod ruling on it and I said I was totally cool with that. Go ahead and get their input on the matter.

Nobody is out to take your KMC 1st amendment, goober. I spent 7 pages on the topic, if not hearing you was my intent, it would have been over on the first. But you're going to get called wrong, when you are.

--

At this point, it would be hilariously tragic if I spend another 3 pages discussing this further.

I suggest you move on, too.

On to more productive things - Pillow Bitter, what did you mean by that?

Originally posted by Philosophía
This is not CBR, a mod ruling on a topic doesn't silence you for being wrong, otherwise carver wouldn't post on the forum anymore. Don't accuse me of trying to silence you, because that is a total b/tch move. You were totally ok to get mod opinion on this, and now that it doesn't go your way, you're going all triggered here:

Nobody is out to take your KMC 1st amendment, goober. I spent 7 pages on the topic, if not hearing you was my intent, it would have been over on the first. But you're going to get called wrong, when you are.

--

At this point, it would be hilariously tragic if I spend another 3 pages discussing this further.

I suggest you move on, too.

On to more productive things - Pillow Bitter, what did you mean by that?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah I was totally cool with it, that doesn't mean you weren't trying to get your prefered usage of the language enforced though. By the same token, if I used a phrase like "muslim aggression" and an SJW said something to the effect of "Do you want me to call the cops and see what they have to say about it" my response would basically be "Sure go right ahead, I don't mind at all".

This was us having a discussion in which you were wrong, and asking an objective opinion on the topic from a mod to chime in. You agreed, and once you got it, not going your way, you went all 'waaaah you're trying to silence me! oppression! SJW".

Stop playing the victim.

Next thing you'll tell me gender is a social construct [joke, btw]