Classic Living Tribunal vs Ultimate Ultimates

Originally posted by leonidas
i already showed that the 7th ended unnaturally early... we saw the first was actively destroyed, so....that obviously isn't a natural ending either. the 6th ended without outside interference, hence the reason its ending was natural. 😕

No! The panels you posted in your previous replied weren't clear and showed nothing. I forgot to tell you that. Okay as you said yourself, the ending of the 1st Multiverse isn't natural neither? That means that the Ending of the Multiverse doesn't have to be natural! It can happen in any way! The fact that the Multiverse is ending doesn't mean there is an imbalance! The Tribunal HAD NO CASE. Else prove me otherwise.

Originally posted by leonidas beyonders>lt i agree. the multiverse died prematurely and lt couldn't stop it. why? because the beyonders were too strong. suggesting that the beyonders were toaa's erasers (utterly unfounded), or that toaa willed it to happen (also totally unfounded) is just...excuse making. it's no more insightful than saying the writers let lt lose. well...yeah, no kidding. it's a ludicrous statement and stance.[/B]

Again show me where it says that the Multiverse was dying prematurely? Either way, prematurely or not it changes nothing. Take it as a normal organism. There is natural death and there is unnatural death! It is still death and it's a natural thing. No cosmic imbalance broken.

I also answered that point. The Beyonders are from beyond, and not from within the Multiverse. They don't represent a Cosmic Imbalance.

Now, my statement isn't UNFOUNDED. TOAA is from outside the Multiverse just as the Beyonders are. TOAA is as said TOAA. So far we are let to believe he created EVERYTHING and that hasn't change. EVERYTHING still includes the BEYONDERS. The purpose they were created is unknown. I just gave a possible reason.

Originally posted by leonidas sure, but i'll side with what has been shown on panel over wide-reaching speculation every time. /shrug[/B]

Ofcourse but since there are NO PANELS to prove or disprove my claims then we need to rely on speculations. And a speculation with evidence to support it but not to prove it is a Theory. And when Theories are concerned the MOST LOGICAL ones are the ones which PREVAIL.

Josh is just going to say whatever in any thread.

In this thread, he points out times that were brought up that LT was shown less powerful than another was because a person became supreme in their own universe, and he's still above them.

But in the Thanos/THOTU thread, he which the comics, the bios, the universe assignement and the editors all say is an alternate universe, he claims is the multiverse, based only on the idea that he was stronger than LT inside said reality.

This is just one of several examples of trying to have it both ways depending on the thread.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ohh i see thanks. Sorry don't get angry but...Arent What If's non canon?

Either way, you didn't read my previous reply. The comic is explaining itself there. The Tribunal can't fight Korvac at its universe cause this has gain Omnipotence it seems. Still it doesn't mean that The Tribunal isn't over him or that has lost the case. The same comic explains that since the tribunal can't stop Korvac at his universe, that now he will SEAL Korvac's universe, ultimately bringing balance back to the Multiverse. So in that aspect Korvac has already lost.

Another instance similar to this is The Living Tribunal vs The Beyonder.

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This is a similar case in where the Living Tribunal has to seal or confine an Omnipotent being to a single universe. In this case, The Beyonder is forced to stay within its Universe.

We know that the LT is Omnipresence and therefore is able to be at ALL universes at the same time. So, in the Universe of the Beyonder LT is second to the Beyonder. As he himself says, the Beyonder is Omnipotent within its own universe and therefore there is nothing the Tribunal Can do against him (within its own universe). However the LT is still above the Beyonder at a Multiversal Scale and is still Second to TOAA.

What you say makes no sense. Korvac wasn't omnipotent in that universe, he was threatened by some space ships and committed suicide because of the threat of universe uniting against him.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/DxwNuoxtWLaEP3DtuFENG9Ytw5iSIOYjv9UuOWPBXMPrsOQUSjh9PptZ7H-XRGs5vDtgb2qDiTHYkA=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/Shis-xN-1Vs3SThJRypFcOrRndj21PH8E1TWUMLFjlE6vqGV0RCWZoXGjJ4YQ26_E69AkqcYDTuzJg=s1600

Eternity and Death were still more powerful than him.

Beyonder isn't omnipotent in his universe, Kosmos defeated him in his own universe.

Have you actually read these stories?

Originally posted by abhilegend
At that time LT was singular in multiverse so it's canon for him.

What you say makes no sense. Korvac wasn't omnipotent in that universe, he was threatened by some space ships and committed suicide because of the threat of universe uniting against him.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/DxwNuoxtWLaEP3DtuFENG9Ytw5iSIOYjv9UuOWPBXMPrsOQUSjh9PptZ7H-XRGs5vDtgb2qDiTHYkA=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/Shis-xN-1Vs3SThJRypFcOrRndj21PH8E1TWUMLFjlE6vqGV0RCWZoXGjJ4YQ26_E69AkqcYDTuzJg=s1600

Eternity and Death were still more powerful than him.

Beyonder isn't omnipotent in his universe, Kosmos defeated him in his own universe.

Have you actually read these stories?

IDK. The thing is that the Tribunal didn't lost. He sealed Korvac's universe. There is nothing Korvac can do to threatened the Multiverse.

Beyonder is Omnipotent in his Universe. The Living Tribunal said it. That ment that the LT won't interfere in the Beyonder's universe. So, lets say that the Beyonder breaks cosmic balance in his OWN UNIVERSE then the Tribunal won't intercede. This However doesn't mean that other entities or beings can chalange the Beyonder in his own Universe.

The panel i posted before said it. Are you reading?

Originally posted by Juntai
Josh is just going to say whatever in any thread.

In this thread, he points out times that were brought up that LT was shown less powerful than another was because a person became supreme in their own universe, and he's still above them.

But in the Thanos/THOTU thread, he which the comics, the bios, the universe assignement and the editors all say is an alternate universe, he claims is the multiverse, based only on the idea that he was stronger than LT inside said reality.

This is just one of several examples of trying to have it both ways depending on the thread.

ehhh.....In no thread have i said that HOTU is a multiversal thing...

Have you read properly my replies?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
IDK. The thing is that the Tribunal didn't lost. He sealed Korvac's universe. There is nothing Korvac can do to threatened the Multiverse.

He ran away and forfeited the fight. That's a loss in any sense.

Beyonder is Omnipotent in his Universe. The Living Tribunal said it. That ment that the LT won't interfere in the Beyonder's universe. So, lets say that the Beyonder breaks cosmic balance in his OWN UNIVERSE then the Tribunal won't intercede. This However doesn't mean that other entities or beings can chalange the Beyonder in his own Universe.

What logic is that? Because LT said it must be true?

Here is Kobik beating and crushing Beyonder in his own universe.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953792-ff319_22.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953793-ff319_23.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953793-ff319_23.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953795-ff319_25.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953796-ff319_28.jpg

The panel i posted before said it. Are you reading?

Are you? Because this is some of the most inane arguments I've ever seen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He ran away and forfeited the fight. That's a loss in any sense.

What logic is that? Because LT said it must be true?

Here is Kobik beating and crushing Beyonder in his own universe.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953792-ff319_22.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953793-ff319_23.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953793-ff319_23.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953795-ff319_25.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/2953796-ff319_28.jpg

Are you? Because this is some of the most inane arguments I've ever seen.

YES! If the LT said it it is true. After All he is the one to cast judgement. According to the Tribunal the Beyonder is OMNIPOTENT in his universe as i said before. OMNIPOTENT means he can do whatever he wishes.

As i said before. The LT won't interfere in the BEYONDER'S universe. That however doesn't apply for other entities.

Yes and No. Running from Korvac's losing represents a Lose to the Tribunal's at an universal scale. But since he will seal the UNIVERSE from the rest of the MULTIVERSE then it is a win at a MULTIVERSAL SCALE.

Originally posted by Juntai
Josh is just going to say whatever in any thread.

In this thread, he points out times that were brought up that LT was shown less powerful than another was because a person became supreme in their own universe, and he's still above them.

But in the Thanos/THOTU threads hes been in, which the comics, the bios, the universe assignement and the editors all say is an alternate universe, he claims is the multiverse, based only on the idea that he was stronger than LT inside said reality.

This is just one of several examples of trying to have it both ways depending on the thread.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
ehhh.....In no thread have i said that HOTU is a multiversal thing...

Have you read properly my replies?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

The HOTU is a weapon that allows its weilder to become everyone and anything in the MULTIVERSE. It is considered the power of God, because it basically makes the owner be on top of the Power Hierchy! As seen in the comic, Thanos killed the LT who is second to TOAA. So it means that the HOTU grants it's weilder power over any being in the MULTIVERSE.

Just one example.

Originally posted by Juntai
Just one example.

...okay.....I don't remember saying that. HOTU is an UNIVERSAL thing. I might have been wrong at the time perhaps. IDK

lol

Josh should plead the 5th and stop talking.

???

To be fair, throughout that post, Josh says "multiverse/universe".

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No. Not universal status, because he was able to defeat the Living Tribunal with it. A universal status weapon isn't above the Tribunal. For instance, the Infinity Gaunlet is a universal status weapon, for there is 1 gaunlet in each universe. An the Tribunal is above these. The HOTU however was able to defeat everything, tribunal and everything. He wiped out the Multiverse. There was only Thanos, in empty space. Then he set everything back, and gave up his powers.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The fact of him defeating the Tribunal is prove enought that he did erased the entire Multiverse. The Tribunal never steps into a quarrel unless it threatens the Multiverse, and that has been pretty much stated several times through the comics. THE TRIBUNAL'S ROLE IS TO KEEP THE BALANCE IN THE MULTIVERSE. If the HOTU wouldn't have threatened this, the Tribunal wouldn't have appeared in the first place!

?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
YES! If the LT said it it is true. After All he is the one to cast judgement. According to the Tribunal the Beyonder is OMNIPOTENT in his universe as i said before. OMNIPOTENT means he can do whatever he wishes.

Except he got beaten by Kubik in his own universe. So he isn't omnipotent.

As i said before. The LT won't interfere in the BEYONDER'S universe. That however doesn't apply for other entities.

What are you even talking about now?

Yes and No. Running from Korvac's losing represents a Lose to the Tribunal's at an universal scale. But since he will seal the UNIVERSE from the rest of the MULTIVERSE then it is a win at a MULTIVERSAL SCALE.

Huh? Korvac didn't even try to break the seal and he had already sealed off his universe from any alternate reality. It was LT who ran away.

Lol @Juntai and Josh.

Good post. Sometimes, people forget that the search function exists.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol @Juntai and Josh.

Good post. Sometimes, people forget that the search function exists.

Originally posted by Juntai

Originally posted by Juntai

Yeah my bad. That comic was refering to a single universe. I misunderstood the comic. My bad.

I forgot that the LT is Omnipresent being at all Universes. Back then i thought that beating the Tribunal was beating the Multiverse. Now i see that is not entirely true. The more you read comics your perspective on characters gets shaped and sometimes transformed.

Honestly i didnt even remember saying that. I admit it i was wrong in saying that.