All-Star Superman throws his key...

Originally posted by carver9
This is true but you cant compare a bullet and a watermelon with beings that have withstood attacks from abstracts, skyfathers and transtier beings. The comparison just doesn't match. You should probably stick with the Wolverine argument.

But we don't know how the key would affect these guys. There is literally nothing in comics which compares.

So we have to default to RL analogies and comparisons.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
All of this is true.

However, I think DS was just trying to get a baseline down for it, and I'm curious where he winds up with it.

I'd say the numbers he uses are his ratio of landmine pressing (just to put the weight in perspective if Superman used both hands), 95 pounds and 70-80 mph for the totally average human. That way we can see the absolute minimum of how to view the feat to present it to Carv and the Carving Gang.

Hm. Not getting how you came upon and managed to relate the numbers here.

The logic of your scaling postulates that ASS's speed scales directly proportional to his strength. Has that been established? Super powers are kinda wonky (and I'm certainly not an expert), so I wouldn't be surprised so correct me if I am wrong.

Otherwise, wouldn't we need to assume that his strength and speed's levels are independent of each other and should not be quantified thru direct scaling from human levels?

As someone who can lift 200 quint tons a 500k ton key would weigh no more than a dust mote to him. But the speed to which he can throw the key would still cap out at the maximum speed he can move his arm. And even then, it should still cap out at below light speed (if we follow physics, that is, but since comics throws out physics on a regular basis, feel free to ignore this).

Seeing as Superman could move his hands at retarded speeds as well, I have no doubt that number reached would still be more or less crazy, however.

In comics, the stronger you are, the harder you can throw. Same way with punching.

It doesn't follow RL stuff.

Which means you can pretty much give any answer you want here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
we have to default to RL analogies and comparisons.

There's not much to support your premise, but, even if you chose to go the "real life" route, you probably wouldn't get the result you seem to support.

I noted this paragraph even of the kinectic link
you gave:

---

During the Vietnam War, there was limited use of the Lazy Dog bomb, a steel projectile shaped like a conventional bomb but only about 25.4 mm (1"😉 long and 9.525 mm (3/8"😉 diameter. A piece of sheet metal was folded to make the fins and welded to the rear of the projectile. These were dumped from aircraft onto enemy troops and had the same effect as a machine gun fired vertically.[3][4] Observers visiting a battlefield after an attack said it looked like the ground had been 'tenderized' using a gigantic fork. Bodies had been penetrated longitudinally from shoulder to lower abdomen.
---

Penetrated.

Not exploded.

Yeah, physics is wonky in comics. Hard to figure these things out. How is the throw speed normally scaled? Is it directly and equally proportional like, can non-speeders with planetary strength throw things at near-light speeds? Wouldn't that mean that throwing things would be the most effective attack a super strength character could have (since if strength = throw speed then accelerating a heavy object would generate force equivalent to the mass amplified by speed) not to mention it would be quite undodgeable since it would be equal to his strength?

Ouch, makes my head hurt.

Since comics are so wonky with physics wouldn't max throw speed (especially those that would quite literally create strange physics-defying numbers) need to be "feat-based"?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
There's not much to support your premise, but, even if you chose to go the "real life" route, you probably wouldn't get the result you seem to support.

I noted this paragraph even of the kinectic link
you gave:

---

During the Vietnam War, there was limited use of the Lazy Dog bomb, a steel projectile shaped like a conventional bomb but only about 25.4 mm (1"😉 long and 9.525 mm (3/8"😉 diameter. A piece of sheet metal was folded to make the fins and welded to the rear of the projectile. These were dumped from aircraft onto enemy troops and had the same effect as a machine gun fired vertically.[3][4] Observers visiting a battlefield after an attack said it looked like [b]the ground had been 'tenderized' using a gigantic fork. Bodies had been penetrated longitudinally from shoulder to lower abdomen.
---

[/B]

There you go.

Of course, had you read on a little further...

As the rod would approach Earth it would necessarily lose most of the velocity, but the remaining energy would cause considerable damage. Some systems are quoted as having the yield of a small tactical nuclear bomb

But hey, you never underestimate the value of selective reading, right?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yeah, physics is wonky in comics. Hard to figure these things out. How is the throw speed normally scaled? Is it directly and equally proportional like, can non-speeders with planetary strength throw things at near-light speeds? Wouldn't that mean that throwing things would be the most effective attack a super strength character could have (since if strength = throw speed then accelerating a heavy object would generate force equivalent to the mass amplified by speed) not to mention it would be quite undodgeable since it would be equal to his strength?

Ouch, makes my head hurt.

Since comics are so wonky with physics wouldn't max throw speed (especially those that would quite literally create strange physics-defying numbers) need to be "feat-based"?

I don't see, for example, Gladiator as being shown to throw something harder than the Hulk, even if physics says he should [super-speed and all]. Super-strength in comics has a...speed-force like behaviour.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yeah, physics is wonky in comics. Hard to figure these things out. How is the throw speed normally scaled? Is it directly and equally proportional like, can non-speeders with planetary strength throw things at near-light speeds? Wouldn't that mean that throwing things would be the most effective attack a super strength character could have (since if strength = throw speed then accelerating a heavy object would generate force equivalent to the mass amplified by speed) not to mention it would be quite undodgeable since it would be equal to his strength?

Ouch, makes my head hurt.

Since comics are so wonky with physics wouldn't max throw speed (especially those that would quite literally create strange physics-defying numbers) need to be "feat-based"?

Well we know that he has the strength to make 0.5 million ton (and remember, he did this with his fingers (which aid a lot in throwing)) key look like nothing.

And was able to casually press with one hand, 200 quintillion tons.

But mostly, he was lifting that key casually like you or I would lift a normal key. Hence my use of scaling.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Nice. 👆

I still need to get rid of some shit in my garage before I give it a good go just so I can try and go backwards if it goes bad. One handed is fine, I'm scared it's going to come out of my clasped hands in the two handed. It seems like the equivalent of suicide grip to me.

Edit: you have more experience with it than me. What is your ratio of one handed to two handed landmine?

Just saw this.

My ratio is nowhere near double. The balance, the small muscles needed, the core etc means that I can't just do 180kg. It was more like 1.5 times.

And even then, my legs had to be staggered.

Quote is broken.

To: Philo

I guess the difference between a comic-punch and comic-throw would be that (even tho it doesn't make sense physics-wise) that the super-force of the punch could be due to the "mass" generated by the super-strength. I know it doesn't really work that way, but I guess writers could use that to form some kind of plausible logical consistency to explain the force behind the punch (w/c would sometimes be portrayed to be at speeds that is still very dodgeable by even normal-speed people). Again, practically impossible to consistently apply any kind of RL physics to comics, so I guess I should just give up. 😛

To: DS

I just feel that directly scaling strength to speed is quite a leap. Since there should be no relationship between the level of strength superman (unless, of course, there is and I don't know about it, feel free to correct me). Unless, of course the strength-to-speed direct conversion scaling is an established rule/standard here in these forums (don't really come here often, but movie forums is d-e-a-d these days).

Edit. Anyway, bedtime. Later all. 🙂

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
you never underestimate the value of selective reading, right?

I'm not in the habit of forgetting who I'm talking to, either.
Or the kind of forum this is.

Point of fact, with the Hulk we're talking about a being who has withstood small nuclear bombs, and with the Silver Surfer, one who has done that AND survived dives into stars. The members of what we call the "herald" class here at KMC are actually somewhat practiced in impossible feats of durability like that, and, where they can't entirely shrug off damage, tend to be good at miraculous healing or fast recovery as well.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Quote is broken.

To: Philo

I guess the difference between a comic-punch and comic-throw would be that (even tho it doesn't make sense physics-wise) that the super-force of the punch could be due to the "mass" generated by the super-strength. I know it doesn't really work that way, but I guess writers could use that to form some kind of plausible logical consistency to explain the force behind the punch (w/c would sometimes be portrayed to be at speeds that is still very dodgeable by even normal-speed people). Again, practically impossible to consistently apply any kind of RL physics to comics, so I guess I should just give up. 😛

You should visit the Superman vs Goku thread in Anime Vs.

Either side of the equation, you'd have a field day there.

Originally posted by cdtm
You should visit the Superman vs Goku thread in Anime Vs.

Either side of the equation, you'd have a field day there.

Was talking to Darksaint. 😛

Even if he had no interest or knowledge of Dragon Ball, I'd pay to see him debate there.

But go to the forum lobby, enter anime/manga, and then vs. At work, with crappy wifi at the moment or I'd get the link..

OMG! you mean on KMC???
I just saw

If we were to place All Star Superman on the Hercules scale from Marvel Comics, how much would he weigh in at? As of 2 days ago, it appears that it would take at the most, 2 Hercules level characters to stop the Earth from spinning. The Earth weighs in at roughly 6 sextillion tons (5.972 × 10^21 t). ASS Superman did not lift that amount. However, he was only lifting it with one arm and did not appear to struggle in the least. Putting this into perspective, All Star Superman was that Earth's version of a super charged version of Superman. He was actually a bit weak by Marvel, and DC standards if we consider Hyperion's feat, and later New 52 Superman's feat.

The best that we can give AS Superman is something within the neighborhood of a Hercules level character (due to them not finding an upper limit to his strength), unless I got the numbers wrong. If I did, I'd more than welcome the correction so that I don't continue to embarrass myself in the future.

Originally posted by cdtm
You should visit the Superman vs Goku thread in Anime Vs.

Either side of the equation, you'd have a field day there.

Even though Phil and myself disagree with a lot, he have a very high opinion of Goku and friends. I think iirc he was one of the ones that said Namek saga Frieza would stomp Thanos.

Originally posted by Stoic
If we were to place All Star Superman on the Hercules scale from Marvel Comics, how much would he weigh in at? As of 2 days ago, it appears that it would take at the most, 2 Hercules level characters to stop the Earth from spinning. The Earth weighs in at roughly 6 sextillion tons (5.972 × 10^21 t). ASS Superman did not lift that amount. However, he was only lifting it with one arm and did not appear to struggle in the least. Putting this into perspective, All Star Superman was that Earth's version of a super charged version of Superman. He was actually a bit weak by Marvel, and DC standards if we consider Hyperion's feat, and later New 52 Superman's feat.

The best that we can give AS Superman is something within the neighborhood of a Hercules level character (due to them not finding an upper limit to his strength), unless I got the numbers wrong. If I did, I'd more than welcome the correction so that I don't continue to embarrass myself in the future.

This is actually kind of funny when you consider that WB Hulk's intestines could withstand over 133 Herc's of damage while in a calm state.

It's near side splitting.