Snoke vs sidious

Originally posted by relentless1
and Snoke has no battle feats at all, he got killed by his student while reading his mind the whole time... Sidious stomps this pretender

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
As though yoda or windu wouldn’t have stomped Snoke lol

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Also there may well have already been a natural force connection between Kylo and Rey, given Reys power was the Force responding to Kylos power.

So the bridging feat may not be as Uber as some like to make out.

After all, their minds were still bridged in this final sequence:

Confirmed in the novelization:

As Kylo stared at the dice he sensed something else--a tremor in the Force, the prelude to a familiar connection. He stared at Rey. She stared back at him, her gaze level and unafraid. There was no hatred in her eyes, as there once had been. But there was no compassion, either. A moment later Rey severed the connection, leaving Kylo alone in the gloom with his father's dice resting in the palm of his upraised hand.

-TLJ

And by that time Snoke was already dead, so... /shrug

Snoke faked his death and still was maintaining the connection. Snoke confirmed for God

Originally posted by Zentrex

Sheev stalemated Mother Talzin in the new canon, so maybe he's not as far above everyone as he was in legends. And I know he's grown since then, because of Lords of the Sith but it just goes on to show that it's more likely he's not the GOAT.

Sidious was stated to create a "dark illusion" in Yoda's mind by taking advantage of the bond him and Dooku had in the force. Snoke was stated to take advantage of the bond Rey and Kylo had. (I'll admit this is also a little shaky, since Johnson confirmed Luke used the same power at the end of TLJ, so maybe a pre-existing bond wasn't necesary, as it was Sidious' feat.)

The reason I think Snoke didn't use a ritual is because in Sidious' ritual Dooku actually had to create the dark illusion, whereas when Snoke did it, Kylo didn't even realize it was Snoke.

Also, Snoke and Sheev were aiming at very different things, like I said above. A terrible comparison, and even if you were right about Snoke's feat > Sheev's feat, it still wouldn't be enough to put him above Sidious, because:

1) That was before Sheev's prime
2) 1 superior showing of esoteric power isn't enough to put someone above Palpatine, as you dont have to be the GOAT in literally everything to be considered the GOAT.
3) The feat is not even combat applicable, which makes it even more unimportant than it already is.

He probably has a greater force barrier. As I said, he used some unknown power to call to the mind of Sidious from the unknown regions, and knew what happened on the second death star before it exploded. This might be proof he's penetrated Vader's and Palpatine's force barriers before. Galan didn't accept it because "it wasn't confirmed", but there's no reason Chuck Wendig would have put that into the book if it wasn't Snoke.

Snoke destroys Sidious. Confirmed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed.

After all, their minds were still bridged in this final sequence:

Confirmed in the novelization:

And by that time Snoke was already dead, so... /shrug

Lol Vader would rape Snoke. By feats or by scaling Vader crushes him. Even in Canon.

Something about sweaty Rey makes my day.

Dry Rey is alright, but really nothing special to me. Sweaty Rey ups everything though. Adam Driver's nose must have been near overloaded though.

They should go back and add in a bunch of sweaty Jyn scenes in RO and see if they can bring her cuteness up a couple more levels.

Originally posted by Azronger
Lol Vader would rape Snoke. By feats or by scaling Vader crushes him. Even in Canon.

lol ignoring context and what actually happened once again eh Quan?? Pathetic... face it your boy doesnt have the feats to back up what your saying.

He TKed Rey around a bit. Big deal, she's a novice with great potential... thats like getting moist over Vader rag dolling ANH Luke...context...

Ren didn't beat Luke; he spazzed out when Lukes guard was down as Luke was ashamed at what he was going to do... thats like saying you beat somebody in a fight just cause you knocked them out while they were busy watching TV... context... something im sure you've done in your lifetime you strike me as a sucker puncher Quan lol

put Palpatines feats against Snakes and Snake loses big time... lol the guy doesn't even have a lightsaber... what a waste of a thread

Originally posted by relentless1
lol ignoring context and what actually happened once again eh Quan?? Pathetic... face it your boy doesnt have the feats to back up what your saying.

He TKed Rey around a bit. Big deal, she's a novice with great potential... thats like getting moist over Vader rag dolling ANH Luke...context...

Ren didn't beat Luke; he spazzed out when Lukes guard was down as Luke was ashamed at what he was going to do... thats like saying you beat somebody in a fight just cause you knocked them out while they were busy watching TV... context... something im sure you've done in your lifetime you strike me as a sucker puncher Quan lol

put Palpatines feats against Snakes and Snake loses big time... lol the guy doesn't even have a lightsaber... what a waste of a thread

Ben defeated him and left him for dead. Luke had his saber drawn so that’s on him I don’t care for your excuses. Defend yourself Luke. He stopped fighting Vader in rotj and still ended up crushing Vader.

Snoke doesn’t even need a lightsaber to beat Sidious. He is just too powerful and throws him around at will. New trilogy is simply too powerful for the older trilogy characters to even matter. Sidious was disarmed both times he whipped out lightsabers against powerful opponents like Windu or Yoda. 😂

Snoke wins, easily.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Fears have never determined superiority it’s how they stack up in comparison. Rey was trained by Luke who was fearful of her raw strength. Vader was wounded in esb by Luke. Vader wasn’t able to manipulate Luke into defeat like Snoke did with Rey. It was a one sided stomp with her being unable to do anything about it.

Ben defeated him and left him for dead. Luke had his saber drawn so that’s on him I don’t care for your excuses. Defend yourself Luke. He stopped fighting Vader in rotj and still ended up crushing Vader.

Snoke doesn’t even need a lightsaber to beat Sidious. He is just too powerful and throws him around at will. New trilogy is simply too powerful for the older trilogy characters to even matter. Sidious was disarmed both times he whipped out lightsabers against powerful opponents like Windu or Yoda. 😂

Snoke wins, easily.

Originally posted by Kurk
Snoke is literally crippled lol. He can't fight even if he wanted because he can't take a hit.

*hit

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed.

After all, their minds were still bridged in this final sequence:

Confirmed in the novelization:

And by that time Snoke was already dead, so... /shrug

They were a hell of a lot closer together in that scene.

Proximity is irrelevant to the point at hand.

The issue is that there was obviously a preexisting natural connection between them, which allowed their minds to spontaneously bridge unaided. This tells us that Snoke didn't create the mind bridge entirely -- he just tapped-into/exploited a connection that was already there.

His feat is still impressive... It just isn't *as* impressive.

Originally posted by Sinious
So, instead of addressing my point, which was about Snoke, you wanted to address me using the word GOAT for Sheev, and to disprove that he isn't, you said Talzin stalemated him (who is completely irrelevant to Snoke), only to admit it was before his prime right after, which means nothing really stands in the way of Sheev being GOAT. And since I never said that Sheev is GOAT with a massive gap between him and everyone else, pretty much everything you said here is irrelevant.

I can't 100% prove Snoke's superior, I can only give you what makes me think he is. My problem was with the idea that you assumed that Palpatine was the GOAT, which is the majority reason for why people think he's more powerful. Now the reason that the Mother Talzin point is important is because she wasn't more powerful than Yoda or Mace. So as far as we know, Sidious was not better than them during the clone wars or RotS.

Just because they have similar qualities, it doesn't mean they are the exact same force power. Not to mention that what Snoke did was simply create a link between two barely trained low level force users that would just let them communicate. Sidious was directly attacking the mind of the most powerful and experienced Jedi. The fact that Yoda was aware but the TLJ plebs weren't means absolutely nothing. So because Kylo didn't realize it, it can't be a ritual? Reasons?

Sidious wasn't attacking his mind. Yoda actually wanted to keep the connection, because he thought that would lead him to the identity of the dark lord. So the level of force users they were doesn't matter.

And they may not be the EXACT same force power, but the accomplish the exact same thing, and Snoke's version does it easier. And if they were doing it ritual style, Kylo would have had to actively be part of it, and shoot lightning into that cauldron of liquid. But he didn't know, so he couldn't have been part of it. And Snoke connected them whenever he wanted, whereas Sidious took quite some time just to cast one illusion. And we see Luke at the end just meditating to do his version of it, and Johnson confirmed he was using the same technique on a larger level.

Also, Snoke and Sheev were aiming at very different things, like I said above. A terrible comparison, and even if you were right about Snoke's feat > Sheev's feat, it still wouldn't be enough to put him above Sidious, because:

1) That was before Sheev's prime
2) 1 superior showing of esoteric power isn't enough to put someone above Palpatine, as you dont have to be the GOAT in literally everything to be considered the GOAT.
3) The feat is not even combat applicable, which makes it even more unimportant than it already is.

How many of Palpatine's powers have we seen in the new canon? How do we know he's better than other force users in all ways, or even most ways. Perhaps he just has better Telekinesis and energy based powers than Yoda, but is slower or weaker?

It might be a bad comparison between the characters' powers, but it's a way of showing that the force bond feat is impressive.

How would any of this translate to having superior TK to Vader? The weakness in your arguments are so apparent from your usage of words like "probably" and "might be". I'm sorry, but you have nothing here, and you're surprised why other members don't buy into this crap?

I'm just giving you my reasons, you may find them unconvincing, but I don't.

Originally posted by Kurk
Snoke is literally crippled lol. He can't fight even if he wanted because he can't take a hit.

but perhaps he can deliver a killing one before he has to take it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He doesn’t need to take a bit. Yoda is a cripple and he can access the force. I guess the same doesn’t apply here because you’re too biased to think straight. What would Musk think? You let your emotions control you.

Andy Serkis on Snoke's injuries:

Also I'd imagine it'd be much more difficult to fight when you have scoliosis lol:

"For those who've been wondering why Snoke looks so scarred and deformed, Serkis says it's a combination of both past conflicts and his body wearing down. As the actor explained:

It is to do with previous battles. It's a sort of decay as well. He's quite an old character, and those battle scars are affecting his recovery and his body's started to break down as well.

Andy Serkis' response about where Snoke's damage came after he talked about imagining that the character has scoliosis of the spine, hence why there's a slouching quality to Snoke rather than the actor being stiff and formal. Serkis didn't elaborate on the battles that Snoke was involved in, but it is interesting to have this extra tidbit of information."

So yeah, he's effectively a cripple--moreso than Sidious or Yoda who simply used canes.

I am like Raven--always in control of my emotions. They serve me. I like Snoke a lot more than Yoda and he's neck and neck with Palpatine on my favorites list.