Snoke vs sidious · Star Wars Versus Forum

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Kurk
Yoda and Sidious don't have holes in their f*cking throats and heads. Honestly Snoke looks worse than Vader out of his suit. Scary af too:

So what? Sidious is horribly scarred as well. Vader is a burn victim and disgusting af as well. This isn’t a handsome contest. Snoke walks better than Yoda does without the force. That’s undeniable.

Andy Serkis on Snoke's injuries:
[img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JuJLT2MtIPY/maxresdefault.jpg[
Also I'd imagine it'd be much more difficult to fight when you have scoliosis lol:
[img]https://i.redd.it/jkar8nkl80by.png[
"For those who've been wondering why Snoke looks so scarred and deformed, Serkis says it's a combination of both past conflicts and his body wearing down. As the actor explained:
Andy Serkis' response about where Snoke's damage came after he talked about imagining that the character has scoliosis of the spine, hence why there's a slouching quality to Snoke rather than the actor being stiff and formal. Serkis didn't elaborate on the battles that Snoke was involved in, but it is interesting to have this extra tidbit of information."
So yeah, he's effectively a cripple--moreso than Sidious or Yoda who simply used canes.
I am like Raven--always in control of my emotions. They serve me. I like Snoke a lot more than Yoda and he's neck and neck with Palpatine on my favorites list. [/B]

Nah, since he walked better than Yoda without a cane I’d say he’s in better shape than Yoda. We didn’t see Snoke have to engage in a saber battle because he was so powerful he didn’t need to. If the others can overcome their physical deficiencies why can’t Snoke. It’s called using logic. How they maneuver without the force has no bearing on how they maneuver with the force.

No, you’re simply ruled by your emotions. You let fear control you completely. Ambition and status have you by the balls but anyone with even limited cognitive function should understand that doesn’t even account for 50 percent of what makes a human being happy.

Then why deny the superiority of Snoke over Sidious, you quoted Serkis who himself plainly stated Snoke is more powerful than Sidious and Vader.

/thread

Kurk Restricted

See this would be easy if I could whip out my EU source books and prove to you that Sidious only uses a cane to appear weak to test who will try to challenge him, that his red guard's primary purpose is not to protect him but to spy on Vader, assassinate, etc.

I'm trying to do this all Disney canon since you hate Legends so much.

Lol what makes him a better walker than Yoda? He's obviously a hunch back:

Let's see, true or false:

Having scoliosis will make it difficult for you to fight

The more debilities he has the more he has to compensate for them with the force, and that in turn is more demanding in prolonged combat where most of his energies have to be focused on his failing body and not his offenses.

Idk why you keep saying I'm ruled by my emotions.

Serkis's quote is ambiguous and there is no-one else to second it. What does more powerful mean exactly? Political power? Military? Combination of everything?

I'm sure more of the forum will support Snoke once we learn of his back-story and how he got his injuries, but until then, we're limited.

Snoke is badass dude. I listen to these videos therapeutically!

YouTube video

Ambition and status have you by the balls but anyone with even limited cognitive function should understand that doesn’t even account for 50 percent of what makes a human being happy.

What d'ya think makes the Supreme Leader happy?

Sinious Yo Da Best

Originally posted by Zentrex
I can't 100% prove Snoke's superior, I can only give you what makes me think he is. My problem was with the idea that you assumed that Palpatine was the GOAT, which is the majority reason for why people think he's more powerful. Now the reason that the Mother Talzin point is important is because she wasn't more powerful than Yoda or Mace. So as far as we know, Sidious was not better than them during the clone wars or RotS.

Proof Talzin isn't more powerful than them at the heart of her power? And if they are superior to Talzin, and Talzin stalemated him (which is highly debatable), the fact that Palpatine stalemated Yoda (Mace's superior) means that Palpatine grew in power quite a bit between SoD and RotS, which doesn't help your case at all, since this isn't SoD Sidious vs Snoke.

Sidious wasn't attacking his mind. Yoda actually wanted to keep the connection, because he thought that would lead him to the identity of the dark lord. So the level of force users they were doesn't matter. And they may not be the EXACT same force power, but the accomplish the exact same thing, and Snoke's version does it easier. And if they were doing it ritual style, Kylo would have had to actively be part of it, and shoot lightning into that cauldron of liquid. But he didn't know, so he couldn't have been part of it. And Snoke connected them whenever he wanted, whereas Sidious took quite some time just to cast one illusion. And we see Luke at the end just meditating to do his version of it, and Johnson confirmed he was using the same technique on a larger level.

So, let me get this straight. You're admitting that they are not the same force power, but they still need to be achieved through the exact same means.

Do you not see the problem in this?

As for trying to achieve the exact same thing claim: Snoke wanted to have a connection between Rey and Kylo because he knew what that connection would lead to. So, the connection itself was the goal. Palpatine did a lot more with the connection between Yoda and Dooku during the time they were connected. Simply connecting them and sitting back wasn't enough. Heck, once the ritual was over, the link was gone instantly. Literally every aspect of these feats are different, and you're suggesting that all the ritual did was form the connection, and everything else that happened during the ritual happened separately, which isn't just completely baseless, but it also makes no sense at all. Not to mention the fact that the other connection was first achieved when Kylo entered Rey's mind.

How many of Palpatine's powers have we seen in the new canon? How do we know he's better than other force users in all ways, or even most ways. Perhaps he just has better Telekinesis and energy based powers than Yoda, but is slower or weaker?

LMAO. That's what I said. He doesn't need to be the GOAT in every category, so no one ever claimed that he is. TK and "energy based powers" are literally %100 of the non-esoteric force powers, and they are also the most combat applicable ones, so if Palpatine is the GOAT in areas that are most decisive in combat, that is enough. What kind of a shitty strawman is this?

It might be a bad comparison between the characters' powers, but it's a way of showing that the force bond feat is impressive.

Indeed. I'm glad we agree that Snoke has an impressive feat, but cannot be placed anywhere near Palpatine because of it, since by your own words, it would be a bad comparison to make.

I'm just giving you my reasons, you may find them unconvincing, but I don't.

Well, I'm sorry to say your baseless opinions don't matter here. Not only are you defending a featless character against a character with great feats, but also your featless character is holistically meant to be below the character with great feats. GL stated that Palpatine is the devil of SW Universe, and anyone who is genuine with the lore would be hesitant to put another villain above him even if they have superior feats, let alone a character with inferior feats, scaling and accolades.

relentless1 Dark Overlord of KMC

Luke wasn't afraid of Reys power he was afraid of her potential; she obviously couldn't access it yet; same as Anakin in TPM you dummy theres a huge difference between the two

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Kurk
See this would be easy if I could whip out my EU source books and prove to you that Sidious only uses a cane to appear weak to test who will try to challenge him, that his red guard's primary purpose is not to protect him but to spy on Vader, assassinate, etc.

EU isn’t canon so who cares.

I'm trying to do this all Disney canon since you hate Legends so much.
Lol what makes him a better walker than Yoda? He's obviously a hunch back:
[/B]

Legends just doesn’t count so why would I care about it.

He can walk without a cane. Yoda hunches over and can barely even stumble with a cane. Yoda’s posture is awful.

Let's see, true or false:
Having scoliosis will make it difficult for you to fight
[/B]

True. But the question is inaccurate because I’m not saying without the force he can do so I’m arguing just like Yoda who has horrible posture and can’t walk for shit with a cane can perform truly acrobatic feats due to his reliance on the force. Why can’t the same be true for Snoke?

The more debilities he has the more he has to compensate for them with the force, and that in turn is more demanding in prolonged combat where most of his energies have to be focused on his failing body and not his offenses.
[/B]

Ok and? You act like this is new. We see the dark spiders routinely are scarred, deformed, aka have sacrificed a lot for the power they seek.

Idk why you keep saying I'm ruled by my emotions.
Serkis's quote is ambiguous and there is no-one else to second it. What does more powerful mean exactly? Political power? Military? Combination of everything?

I see them flare up here and there. If you weren’t emotional you wouldn’t routinely seek advice aka therapeutic dialogue so you can better handle your current level of frustration over your supposedly wasted potential.
Why would it make sense for any other meaning than personal power? Sidious controlled the empire so why even include Vader in the statement since he was obviously second fiddle within the hierarchy of the empire. The comment had to do with personal power and considering what we see Snoke capable of in this film it makes perfect sense as well aligns with the obviousness of Disney going bigger, badder across the barrel in their new trilogy.

I'm sure more of the forum will support Snoke once we learn of his back-story and how he got his injuries, but until then, we're limited.
Snoke is badass dude. I listen to these videos therapeutically!
YouTube video
YouTube video
What d'ya think makes the Supreme Leader happy?

If you listen to how he mocks Kylo and uses both he and Hux then why question his Star Wars supremacy. We are limited on the details of his history but the bread crumbs already are there to figure out how powerful he is in the meantime.

I think me as a fan makes Snoke happy.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by relentless1
Luke wasn't afraid of Reys power he was afraid of her potential; she obviously couldn't access it yet; same as Anakin in TPM you dummy theres a huge difference between the two

We see her put Luke on his ass when she dons the saber. She was wowing Solo in his own Mf. The girl is exceptional. Her and a little kid in Anakin isn’t the same as Rey who resisted Kylo’s power in the previous film before her powers grew even further and prior to Luke’s training.

🙂

Kurk Restricted

Serkis imagines him as “a couple of hundred years old” with a litany of egregious injuries from “previous battles” that have left him permanently scarred, made worse by “a sort of decay.” Snoke wasn’t always just a menacing leader wielding power from a blood-red throne room. He used to be a fighter — before somebody caved in his skull.

“I’ve always approached him as someone who is obviously in a position of supreme power,” Serkis said, “but actually, there is a level of vulnerability about the character.” He may be one of the most powerful Force users we’ve ever seen, but Snoke’s many injuries probably made him physically vulnerable: “The way that his face is caved in, he has those deep scarifications. His skull’s almost been crushed.”

“He is withered and slightly twisted in his spine, so that gave him that lurch,” Serkis added. “Those injuries are things that he has carried for a long time, and it’s almost like a form of arthritis.” This physical vulnerability made Snoke operate from a place of fear, a position he probably knew was risky.

“When you’re operating from a level of fear, you operate dangerously as a leader,” Serkis rationalized. Typical of most villains on the Dark side of the Force, Snoke ruled from a place of fear.

https://www.inverse.com/article/41983-the-last-jedi-snoke-any-serkis-backstory

quanchi112 Disney

He is more physically weaker due to his deficiencies but his relevance in the force and his insane power makes up for it. The same can be said for Yoda. Fear keeps him strong since he isn’t complacent and keeps him alert.

Voldemort for instance was damaged due to losing horcurxues in deathly hallows part two but that made him more dangerous like a wounded animal. His fear made him strong. Fears keeps us alive, Kurk. Snoke showed how bauaive be was of his top guy without hesitation. He mocked him and when he stood up to challenge Snoke he put him down and continued to mock him and his mask.

I do believe you’re upset you didn’t spot the brilliance in Snoke before I did.

quanchi112 Disney

*how abusive he was of his top guy

Kurk Restricted

"You wonder why I keep a rabid cur in such a place of power? A cur's weakness, properly manipulated, can be a sharp tool."

Indeed our fears keep us alive.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Kurk
"You wonder why I keep a rabid cur in such a place of power? A cur's weakness, properly manipulated, can be a sharp tool."
Indeed our fears keep us alive.

Tell me then fallen apprentice think true. If Sidious were to find Snoke in a room with two men entering who would emerge victorious?

You know the answer to be true. Stop being

and now regain your purpose

Kurk Restricted

Nah bruh, Sheev still wins because Snoke can't compete with this:

I'll meet you half-way though:

Snoke's abilities in telepathy and information draining are unrivaled in Canon and top tier in the EU

Looking solely at Palpatine's feats from RotJ I'd wager Snoke would win in a fight.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Kurk
Nah bruh, Sheev still wins because Snoke can't compete with this:
I'll meet you half-way though:
Snoke's abilities in telepathy and information draining are unrivaled in Canon and top tier in the EU
Looking solely at Palpatine's feats from RotJ I'd wager Snoke would win in a fight.

Snoke disarms him. We see how easily he can disarm foes who come at him. We have seen Sidious disarmed on screen by Windu and off screen by Yoda. The guy can’t hold onto his light saber against a peer it seems.

Snoke is simply too powerful for Sidious. Serkis wouldn’t lie. Trust Gollum.

Darth Thor Senior Member

Snoke was pretty easily killed by Kylo :lol;

Kurk Restricted

Idk Quan. Sheev is just too fast for slow poke Snoke. He gutted 3 council members before they could react. Snoke was too slow to react Kylo gutting him.

relentless1 Dark Overlord of KMC

lol again you quote an actor for your feats... scraping the bottom of the barrel indeed Quan

Darth Thor Senior Member

^ Because they have nothing else. Thats the desperate state of the Snoke camp.

Iirc Pablo already stated not to take Serkis opinion as fact.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Snoke was pretty easily killed by Kylo :lol;

Snoke had his defenses down. Vader slowly walked Sidious mid firing his fl to his death and was powerless to stop him. Vader didn’t have a weapon and just lost a hand to Luke. Sidious howled like a woman. He seemed truly scared.

😂

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Kurk
Idk Quan. Sheev is just too fast for slow poke Snoke. He gutted 3 council members before they could react. Snoke was too slow to react Kylo gutting him.

He was not that fast. He dispatched the einferjir Jedi but was soundly defeated by Windu. His twirling wouldn’t do jack shit to Snoke who would casually disarm him while on the shitter if need be. Sidious was too slow to react toVader who took amihc longer time and didn’t even have a weapon. Sidious had ample time to defend himself and managed to scream like a girl. Snoke defeats Sidious at any point in his life. Snoke is simply too powerful.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by relentless1
lol again you quote an actor for your feats... scraping the bottom of the barrel indeed Quan

Kurk quoted the actor. I used his comments, his feats in the film, and the book alluding to his overall history. Snoke is a badass in the film power wise to the point we have never seen anyone this dominant over such powerful characters in Rey and Kylo.