Originally posted by MythLord
You're trying to simplify a very complicated issue that has a lot of factors and layers to it just because you don't understand it, or don't seem to bother wanting to understand it in the first place.
You're right, it is complicated because we don't know where to draw the line. If a man identifying as a woman is okay then it would be hard to argue that people shouldn't be able to identify as any gender, race, or age they want.
Originally posted by Surtur
If they accepted themselves they wouldn't be chopping their dicks off.They embrace their mental illness, that is what happens.
Y'all need to accept that some people are never going to go along with this fantasy where you're a woman cuz you say you're a woman. And that there's nothing wrong with not thinking a man can become a woman cuz feelings.
Though your presentation of the issue borders on trolling I actually read an interesting article on the subject written by a transgender man. His argument consists in saying that the myth of "being born in the wrong body" is, in a way, a way to lose one's sense of self and one of the most body-negative logics you can apply. This is pressure that the transgendered individual feels from his own culture for years that's something accepted by society. In some countries hormone treatments are being financed by the government because not feeling ok with your own body is seen as a sickness.
Gender transformation is a big market for plastic chirgury. Some hormonal treatments are offered to young kids that have trangender tendencies so their secondary sexual features never appear by adulthood. Obviously the effects cannot be reversed.
Is that really how society wants to deal with their effeminate men or the masculine women? For me it's borderline perpetuating dangerous frustration into its individuals.
And some arguments right here in the thread just prove how incapable western society is regarding of dealing with this issues sensibly.
Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Does it though? Or does it just acknowledge people who have sex with only two genders? 🤔
People who are bi are attracted to both men and women, but not necessarily to transpeople. Bi people who are also attracted to transgender people are pansexual. Pansexuals are attracted to people regardless of gender or sex; they are attracted to hearts, not parts.
Originally posted by Surtur
I mean...how are they not delusional? They literally believe in something that is not true. They shame others for not accepting them and yet can't even accept themselves.Here's the definition for delusional, tell me if it applies:
[b]"characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder."
How does reality *not* contradict them? [/B]
You just described Trumpers.
Originally posted by mike brown
Do you believe all those different forms of trans people are fixed from birth that way... Or is there some room for environment to play a factor?
That depends, the question is entirely too broad.
For example, asking whether the gender of a non-binary person is fixed depends entirely on what you mean by gender.
If by gender, you are referring to the experience of that person of their own gender, then yes, it is likely fixed.
But if by gender, you are referring to the category they have proposed to better classify their gender, then the answer would be no, because the category is just a label they have created, and can be changed.
Drag performers are often cisgender, so this question would not even apply to them.
Originally posted by mike brown
they are delusional because they feel like they are supposed to be the opposite sex but in reality they just have brain problems. Same as someone who thinks they should be a different species or race.
Suppose you are in a horrific accident, and you body dies. But to save your life, your mind is put into a computer. Would you still consider yourself a man? Would you be delusional for having a fixed gender identity irrespective of not having a body?
Originally posted by mike brown
very closed minded and judgemental of you to say that. What makes you certain they aren't genuine?
The fact that they are not living naked, shitting in the woods.
Originally posted by mike brown
What about the other various forms of body dysmorphia? Are anorexics etc just attention seeking too?
Body dysmorphic disorders are characterized by obsessive thoughts, and subsequent compulsive behaviors to manage those thoughts. People with eating disorders in particular use control over their bodies to feel in control of their life. That is nothing like being transgender.
Originally posted by MythLord
You're trying to simplify a very complicated issue that has a lot of factors and layers to it just because you don't understand it, or don't seem to bother wanting to understand it in the first place.
To someone who is male, identifies as a man, and lives in a society that places a high value on men, the notion that someone would reject maleness, makes them feel uncomfortable at best and judged at worst.
No one likes to hear, "I do not want what you have to offer." So to protect their feelings, they have to reject them first, "There is something wrong with you for not wanting to be male like us."
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
To someone who is male, identifies as a man, and lives in a society that places a high value on men, the notion that someone would reject maleness, makes them feel uncomfortable at best and judged at worst.No one likes to hear, "I do not want what you have to offer." So to protect their feelings, they have to reject them first, "There is something wrong with you for not wanting to be male like us."
And of course, there's women wearing men's attire being acceptable, but the moment a man wears a dress there has to be something wrong with him.
I'd say the root of the problem is also a base lack of empathy, when you're incapable of even attempting to understand the experiences of transgender person, the narrow-minded knee-jerk "they are mentally ill/delusional/freaks/other!" response is little surprise.
As is the moral panic over gay men in dresses (i.e. seXuAl DeViaNts!!1) reading age-appropriate books to children. 🙁
Originally posted by MythLord
A "man" with gender dysphoria identifying as a woman is OK, yes. That's where I draw the line, anyways: when there's a basis for the transition.
Okay so then here is what people like you need to do if you want others to come around to your thinking: admit this has gone too far. Admit that this has poisoned the minds of some people and lead to transgender children. Some kids far too young to make these choices, and yes they don't get surgery or anything yet, but it's disturbing nonetheless.
Same thing with these drag queen children lol. The shit is creepy and weird, you're never gonna get people to your level of thinking if this is not acknowledged.
Originally posted by Bentley
Though your presentation of the issue borders on trolling I actually read an interesting article on the subject written by a transgender man. His argument consists in saying that the myth of "being born in the wrong body" is, in a way, a way to lose one's sense of self and one of the most body-negative logics you can apply. This is pressure that the transgendered individual feels from his own culture for years that's something accepted by society. In some countries hormone treatments are being financed by the government because not feeling ok with your own body is seen as a sickness.Gender transformation is a big market for plastic chirgury. Some hormonal treatments are offered to young kids that have trangender tendencies so their secondary sexual features never appear by adulthood. Obviously the effects cannot be reversed.
Is that really how society wants to deal with their effeminate men or the masculine women? For me it's borderline perpetuating dangerous frustration into its individuals.
And some arguments right here in the thread just prove how incapable western society is regarding of dealing with this issues sensibly.
Interesting and disturbing in a way. We had one state at least that was paying for transgender surgery. It was Oregon, I think it still does it. And I don't know if this is still the rule, but at one time someone as young as 15 could get the operation(paid for by tax payers) even without parental consent.
IMO I think it'd be a lot easier for some to tolerate if this didn't seep into the younger kids. It's almost encouraged. Now, depending on the parents, if a kid says "I'm a girl" then...well, now the boy is a girl. I was just watching a video earlier about a 9 yr. old transgender kid. His mother said one time in the bath when he was 7 he said he was a girl. So then he was a girl since then.
People can say "Surtur doesn't really care about the kids" and okay fair enough I once saw a little kid fall of his bike and I laughed, but when you actually see the kids in video it's disturbing. When you see the gleam in their crazed parents eyes about their child's decision, I dunno, all I can say is it rubs me the wrong way.
Go to about 5 minutes in and it gets to one example of a totally deranged parent. The Piers Morgan stuff is before that.