Originally posted by leonidasOh, I was referring to the 'omniverse' of hypertime that was created, not the 'access' point itself. And yeah, he had to work really fast considering the he built infinite universes [https://i.imgur.com/hCECSJw.jpg i.e. the pre-crisis version], and that's without counting the infinity of Universes that have existed since then, too, and then the Multiverse that he wanted to replace the main version with etc. Comics.
i'm not arguing that he created the possibilities that make up hypertime (though that is a LOT of creating...). just that hypertime itself doesn't feel like a dimension of its own, but more of a means to REACH one of these possibilities. maybe as each was created he sort of created the chain that is hypertime, and the links that are each possible world?i doubt very much snyder and the others looked at things this closely. 👆
So, yeah. I mean, this is all pretty clear, so while I understand the absolute ruffle it has caused on the forum, I didn't/don't necessarily want to go into this much details of what all of this implies. Especially since there's ridiculous amount of baiting on both sides which is worth zero time.
Originally posted by Senor CageCertainly not, Since the three brothers powerset all suggesting they are all multiversal beings 😎
So, are we still debating if WF is a multiversal being? Lmao
AM could stalemate to peak Monitor without absorbing any positive universes
https://i.imgur.com/Hf3Jh34.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PvmdqaP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RCZEhTg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9oeRLq8.jpg
Originally posted by PhilInteresting thing about this scan is that World Forger directly references the Sphere of the Gods, which implies that he created/filled it as well. Quite a feat considering that the Sphere of the Gods is where places like Apokolips, New Genesis, Heaven, Hell, etc. all reside on Morrison's Map.
https://i.imgur.com/37WiXtj.jpgYou can even see both WF and Monitor being shocked to discover something that the World Forger didn't create.
...Never mind the sheer scale of that Sphere.
Oh, I was referring to the 'omniverse' of hypertime that was created, not the 'access' point itself. And yeah, he had to work really fast considering the he built infinite universes [https://i.imgur.com/hCECSJw.jpg i.e. the pre-crisis version], and that's without counting the infinity of Universes that have existed since then, too, and then the Multiverse that he wanted to replace the main version with etc. Comics.
lol yeah, that's a lot of building. and we know he's been killed as well, so there were times where i guess nothing was being built...?
you mentioned omniverse--if hypertime is indeed an omniversal thing, then at best, wf could have been responsible for only parts of it since his power is manifestly relegated to this multiverse. i always considered hypertime an omniversal feature of the dcu.
So, yeah. I mean, this is all pretty clear, so while I understand the absolute ruffle it has caused on the forum, I didn't/don't necessarily want to go into this much details of what all of this implies. Especially since there's ridiculous amount of baiting on both sides which is worth zero time.
lol but what ruffle? my suggestion that wf is a universal power who operates on a multiversal scale? if that's what you're talking about i'm not sure i understand the ruffled-ness. lol to me it seems pretty clear--each had a role--safeguard, monitor the prime universe, safeguard/monitor the anti-matter universe, create universes to populate the already-in-place shell of the multiverse. i mean literally EVERYTHING wf has done can be explained away as him doing things one universe at a time. i TRULY don't understand why that is such an...apocalyptic take. well, except for those who want to use it to scale superman.
and all the baiters and idiots are on ignore so i really never see anything . it is nice to have a reasonable discussion. unlike many--most--i don't claim to be right, i just think my position is as reasonable as the other side and it makes more sense to me based on the mythology snyder has seemingly introduced. /shrug
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Certainly not, Since the three brothers powerset all suggesting they are all multiversal beings 😎
Monitor powered by all positive universes/matters
https://i.imgur.com/RnFELcG.jpgAM could stalemate to peak Monitor without absorbing any positive universes
https://i.imgur.com/Hf3Jh34.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PvmdqaP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RCZEhTg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9oeRLq8.jpg
Insane .
Originally posted by Galan007
Interesting thing about this scan is that World Forger directly references the Sphere of the Gods, which implies that he created/filled it as well. Quite a feat considering that the Sphere of the Gods is where places like Apokolips, New Genesis, Heaven, Hell, etc. all reside on Morrison's Map....Never mind the sheer scale of that Sphere.
Galan what do you think of the earlier scene in Justice League #20 where White Lantern John Stewart and Flash with the speed and still force are custom designing universes to fill the Multiverse?
Was that all a ploy by the World Forger or was it a task he assigned his future Justice League creations to do?
Originally posted by Sensui
Galan what do you think of the earlier scene in Justice League #20 where White Lantern John Stewart and Flash with the speed and still force are custom designing universes to fill the Multiverse?Was that all a ploy by the World Forger or was it a task he assigned his future Justice League creations to do?
Forgot about that. Either way, that's part of WF power. Incredible.
Originally posted by SensuiAs I understand it, World Forger created his own rendition of an evolved, idealized Justice League -- the 'perfect' heroes, as he saw it(with WF himself playing the role of Superman.)
Galan what do you think of the earlier scene in Justice League #20 where White Lantern John Stewart and Flash with the speed and still force are custom designing universes to fill the Multiverse?Was that all a ploy by the World Forger or was it a task he assigned his future Justice League creations to do?
So imo, they could logically be viewed as extensions of his power. Could be wrong, though, so I'm curious what others have to say.
Originally posted by Sensui
Galan what do you think of the earlier scene in Justice League #20 where White Lantern John Stewart and Flash with the speed and still force are custom designing universes to fill the Multiverse?Was that all a ploy by the World Forger or was it a task he assigned his future Justice League creations to do?
this wasn't addressed to me but i'll weigh in anyway. lol i don't see why it would be a ploy. wf said that he scanned all possibilities and only THIS formation--a future formation where batman convinced/forced the league to pre-emptively attack the villains--was one that would allow the multiverse a chance to avoid destruction. in this universe, without threat of villains, the league managed to evolve to the point where they could act together to build universes--build a multiverse, in fact, one that would align with justice and be deemed worthy. the league also had access to powers they never have before (still force...).
on a side note--that raises an interesting point--the future league itself is capable of building a multiverse one universe at a time. so, are they multiversal, too...?
anyway....i don't think we need to see this as an extension of wf's power either. there's nothing to indicate that, or that he has that level of control over the universes he sets in motion (see his inability to control any of the dark multiverse universes for proof or his attempts to order batman to help him). this was the universe wf hoped for--a justice formation brought about through batman's decision and the league's evolution. no reason imo not to think their accomplishments/feats weren't real and their own.
on a side note: that issue did clear up the deal wf made with mxy though--he simply needed mxy to clear the way for him--ie--wipe out the old multiverse to make way for his new one. mxy is still part of the multiverse after all, and if the judges deemed it unworthy, he'd be destroyed along with the rest of the multiverse. seems clear (to me) mxy simply saw this as the only way to try and avoid true multiversal destruction. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
this wasn't addressed to me but i'll weigh in anyway. lol i don't see why it would be a ploy.
Originally posted by leonidas
on a side note--that raises an interesting point--the future league itself is capable of building a multiverse one universe at a time. so, are they multiversal, too...?[/B]
If you don't view it as an extension of World Forger's power then yes (for John and Flash) it should be imo.
Also I've read through the thread and if I miss characterize your position then let me know but when you said...
Originally posted by leonidas
my suggestion that wf is a universal power who operates on a multiversal scale? if that's what you're talking about i'm not sure i understand the ruffled-ness. lol to me it seems pretty clear--each had a role--safeguard, monitor the prime universe, safeguard/monitor the anti-matter universe, create universes to populate the already-in-place shell of the multiverse.[/B]
If he created the Dark Multiverse (regardless of how much control he has over it, or how long it took) then by default shouldn't he classify as a Multiversal Power? Unless your position is that because of the time it took (which we don't know) or his lack of control over Barbatos and the rest of the discarded concepts disqualifies from creating it in the first place?
Also if your position is correct then it literally means that Perpetua, who created her three sons Anti-Monitor, Monitor, and World Forger to manage her creation, literally made her third son the World Forger INFINITELY weaker than Anti-Monitor powered by the anti-matter multiverse and Monitor powered by the positive multiverse.
That just doesn't sound right to me Leonidas, that World Forger would have to be infinitely weaker than his multiversal brothers, especially with the entire concept of replacing Multiverses with his cosmic hammer and anvil when a multiversal crisis appears. Unless you also feel that the Monitor brothers aren't fitting your definition of multiversal either? Or do you feel their multiversal only in specific circumstances because that's the gist of what I'm getting from your classification of the World Forger?
Now I can't speak to Franklin Richards and where he ranks cause I don't know much about him outside of vs threads so consider me ignorant on his power
level.
