Endless vs Marvel Abstracts

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Are you serious?

Because multiverse can mean different things. She was holding the Earths, sure, but the Sphere of Gods and Dark Multiverse weren't in her hands but we know they were sealed by the Source Wall too.

Plus, it's not sealed if the Monitors could just kill themselves to leave the Source Wall, that's not really a good seal. We know that the normal Monitor respawned before the Source Wall broke, and he was still able to get back into the rest of the multiverse. Same with the AM.

Source Wall was created in Promethean Galaxy.

That's not sixth dimension.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm using the term 'multiverse' as it is used/defined in DC comics on Morrison's Map(which is what Snyder was also basing his story from.) The 5th and 6th dimensions are beyond it. Your baseless opinions aside, nothing disproves this. Sorry.

So your contention is that the multiverse contains a dimension that PREDATES it? Lol, have fun with that. 👆

My contention is that you can use the term "multiverse" how ever you want, since for example Hawkgirl uses the Multiverse to refer to just the Earths in metal, but the Map refers to the Sphere of the Gods as well.

My contention has never been that the 6th dimension is inside the 52 Earths, or that it's inside the Sphere of the Gods, but that it's inside the Source Wall. And everything inside the Source Wall is just as valid to call a multiverse as calling just the Dark Multiverse a multiverse or calling the Sphere of Gods+Earths a multiverse.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think you're mixing up what was actually shown/stated on the pages.

In JL#22 Perpetua was creating the literal multiverse, just as she literally created her children to tend to it on those same pages. She was actually holding the ENTIRE multiversal structure(marveling at its beauty) and explaining what her childrens' roles would be within it. Those scans were already posted by abhi, but it really couldn't be clearer what's happening there.

In JL#19 Mxy is explaining the 6th dimension. He explains that it sits at the top of EVERYTHING, and explains that it is also where the multiverse was designed/created. So again, if it was there BEFORE the multiverse, it cannot be WITHIN the multiverse.

Perpetua literally tells the brothers to come closer and take at the Multiverse she holds in her hands while in the 6D, as she puts in more power to create it:
https://imgur.com/a/LadQIL2

"What do you hold in your hand, mother?"
"It is a Multiverse. Come see, my children....I have nearly finished shaping it into being"

Mxy literally states that the Multiverse was designed in the 6th D:
https://i.imgur.com/D2d4z1B.jpg

"6th D [...] a realm where the Multiverse was designed and set in motion"

???

Where do people think the Multiverse(s) World Forger created were residing....inside the main Multiverse?
Where do people think the Multiverse he created to descend into the current one was residing...inside the one...he wanted to ... descend....in?
https://imgur.com/a/RdPpEPn

What the f*ck is going on with people's brains the last few weeks?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
My contention is that you can use the term "multiverse" how ever you want, since for example Hawkgirl uses the Multiverse to refer to just the Earths in metal, but the Map refers to the Sphere of the Gods as well.

My contention has never been that the 6th dimension is inside the 52 Earths, or that it's inside the Sphere of the Gods, but that it's inside the Source Wall. And everything inside the Source Wall is just as valid to call a multiverse as calling just the Dark Multiverse a multiverse or calling the Sphere of Gods+Earths a multiverse.

...So that's what most of us are going by. Not arbitrary definitions of the multiverse we've made up.

The 5th and 6th dimensions are OUTSIDE all that.

Originally posted by Galan007
Snyder used Morrison's Map as the reference point for the multiversal structure in this story:

...So that's what most of us are going by. Not arbitrary definitions of the multiverse we've made up.

The 5th and 6th dimensions are OUTSIDE all that.

By your logic of that picture, the Dark Multiverse is outside the Source Wall too, but it's not. 😂 😂 😂

I POSTED a scan earlier which YOU ignored, also which is MORE recent where Mxy says that the Bleed is the 5th Dimension, and the Bleed is clearly constrained within the Source Wall. In addition, the House of Heroes, which is within the Source Wall, rotates through the Fifth Dimension, which indicates the 5th dimension is constrained by the Source Wall.

stuff is common sense til people project their own preconceived notions

Nothing new changes it

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
By your logic of that picture, the Dark Multiverse is outside the Source Wall too, but it's not. 😂 😂 😂

Under Snyder, the Dark Multiverse is simply represented by the BACK of Morrison's Map:
https://i.imgur.com/TffRupf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8oFkkRn.jpg

You'd already know that if you actually bothered to read-up on any of the concepts you are trying to discuss here "😂 😂 😂".

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I POSTED a scan earlier which YOU ignored, also which is MORE recent where Mxy says that the Bleed is the 5th Dimension, and the Bleed is clearly constrained within the Source Wall. In addition, the House of Heroes, which is within the Source Wall, rotates through the Fifth Dimension, which indicates the 5th dimension is constrained by the Source Wall.

And like I already explained: the 5th dimension = imagination, and at a literal/metafictional level, the concept of imagination comprises almost EVERYTHING in the comics we read. So in THAT respect, there is certainly 5D power within the primary multiverse/Bleed(it's ALL imagination) -- Mxy said as much. However, the 5th dimension/Zrfff itself(ie. the realm where Mxy lives) sits OUTSIDE the multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/XmoMvG7.jpg

How many times do I have to explain the same thing before it sinks in? This is getting ridiculous.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
stuff is common sense til people project their own preconceived notions

Nothing new changes it

alberto just needs to go running back to CV where people are a bit more on his level. hes way out of his depth here lmao. poor guy

Originally posted by Galan007
I think you're mixing up what was actually shown/stated on the pages.

In JL#22 Perpetua was creating the literal multiverse, just as she literally created her children to tend to it on those same pages. She was actually holding the ENTIRE multiversal structure(marveling at its beauty) and explaining what her childrens' roles would be within it. Those scans were already posted by abhi, but it really couldn't be clearer what's happening there.

In JL#19 Mxy is explaining the 6th dimension. He explains that it sits at the top of EVERYTHING, and explains that it is also where the multiverse was designed/created. So again, if it was there BEFORE the multiverse, it cannot be WITHIN the multiverse.

apparently we're not going to see eye to eye here either. 👆

in jl 22 before the flashback is shown, we see perpetua. there is a piece of narration there that says: "the multiverse is broken. From the sixth dimension to its most base form," implying again the the sixth dimension is a PART of the multiverse, not set outside it. "control room". tip top of the multiverse.

that scene you and phil are referencing doesn't disprove anything i've said at all imo. we definitely see it vastly differently somehow though. we see her shape 2 visions of the multiverse. again, i think she is simply showing them what it could be as she explains their roles because it is NEW. NOT FORMED yet. so she is projecting what it WILL or MAY look like when completed. that can easily be done from the very peak of the multiverse.

as for what is 'descending'--mxy--again--says the 6th d is at the very TOP of the multiverse. the ultimate level. so....of course the new multiverse would descend from there.... 😕 we don't use 'descend' to describe something that is coming from...outside?

so you literally think wf created a multiverse outside the source wall, passed it THROUGH the wall and was planning on having it replace our multiverse? that doesn't seem...right to me.

i asked a few questions before regarding the source wall. again, do you not think it is the boundary of the multiverse? do you think mxy and wf can just pass through the wall to reach the 6th d or the 5th? proof ANY of them have ever past through the wall of ANY kind?

again, not understanding how you're coming to these conclusions in light of the entire story arc. /shrug

and i still don't know where or when that mxy/5th d scan is from....

Originally posted by leonidas
apparently we're not going to see eye to eye here either. 👆

in jl 22 before the flashback is shown, we see perpetua. there is a piece of narration there that says: "the multiverse is broken. From the sixth dimension to its most base form," implying again the the sixth dimension is a PART of the multiverse, not set outside it. "control room". tip top of the multiverse.

that scene you and phil are referencing doesn't disprove anything i've said at all imo. we definitely see it vastly differently somehow though. we see her shape 2 visions of the multiverse. again, i think she is simply showing them what it could be as she explains their roles because it is NEW. NOT FORMED yet. so she is projecting what it WILL or MAY look like when completed. that can easily be done from the very peak of the multiverse.

as for what is 'descending'--mxy--again--says the 6th d is at the very TOP of the multiverse. the ultimate level. so....of course the new multiverse would descend from there.... 😕 we don't use 'descend' to describe something that is coming from...outside?

so you literally think wf created a multiverse outside the source wall, passed it THROUGH the wall and was planning on having it replace our multiverse? that doesn't seem...right to me.

i asked a few questions before regarding the source wall. again, do you not think it is the boundary of the multiverse? do you think mxy and wf can just pass through the wall to reach the 6th d or the 5th? proof ANY of them have ever past through the wall of ANY kind?

again, not understanding how you're coming to these conclusions in light of the entire story arc. /shrug

and i still don't know where or when that mxy/5th d scan is from....

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
alberto just needs to go running back to CV where people are a bit more on his level. hes way out of his depth here lmao. poor guy

😕

Lol IOW, no he's not..... He's got Carv

Perpetua was indeed holding the ACTUAL multiversal superstructure in her hand:

There is no ambiguity here. I don't think dialogue can possibly be more explicit.

At no point in the story arc it is implied that the 5th and 6th dimensions are WITHIN the multiverse. You're taking Mxy saying that the 6th dimension sits on top of "EVERYTHING" to mean that the 6th dimension must therefore be housed within the multiverse that Perpetua created...Which is very obviously NOT the case. Again, not only does the 6th dimension PREDATE the multiverse, but the multiverse was originally designed/created from WITHIN the 6th dimension. Mxy told us this, and we saw Perpetua do this... So how can you possibly believe it is part of the multiverse? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

The "multiverse", as defined by Morrison and Snyder, contains the infinite 3D multiverse/Hypertime, the God Sphere, Limbo, the Monitor Sphere, the Dark Multiverse, and everything in between. The 5th and 6th dimensions themselves are OUTSIDE of Perpetua's multiverse. Nothing suggests otherwise, imo.

Yes, I do think that's what World Forger did, because that's what we were told he was doing multiple times. The Source Wall was broken, though, which is why WF started fashioning a new multiverse in the first place: he foresaw the calamity to come, and that seemed like the best alternative to ensure survival.

Do I think Mxy can bypass the Source Wall when he 'ports into the multiverse and whatnot? Absolutely. Do I think he can exist in the Overvoid? Absolutely. It's Mxy, ffs... Are we now trying to limit/contain him to a single strata of existence as well? C'mon now...

Originally posted by Galan007
Stop trolling.

Under Snyder, the Dark Multiverse is simply represented by the BACK of Morrison's Map:
https://i.imgur.com/TffRupf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8oFkkRn.jpg

You'd already know that if you actually bothered to read-up on any of the concepts you are trying to discuss here "😂 😂 😂".

It's from the SAME issue, genius... SAME page, even. You sure you've read this stuff? srsly

And like I already explained: the 5th dimension = imagination, and at a literal/metafictional level, the concept of imagination comprises almost EVERYTHING in the comics we read. So in THAT respect, there is certainly 5D power within the primary multiverse/Bleed(it's ALL imagination) -- Mxy said as much. However, the 5th dimension/Zrfff itself(ie. the realm where Mxy lives) sits OUTSIDE the multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/XmoMvG7.jpg

How many times do I have to explain the same thing before it sinks in? This is getting ridiculous.

Don't start getting pissy just because your non-points are worthless.

....The Dark Multiverse is inside the Source Wall...You do REALIZE that right?

Oh, so repeating the same point I addressed already. running out of arguments eh Galan?

the Monitor Sphere is inside the Source Wall, but you don't see the Source Wall while in the Monitor Sphere. Because it's not always just a wall, that's part of it but not the whole thing. When you're inside the Source Wall it looks like the original Kirby Source, with Kirby dots and stuff all over it. The Source Wall is a vibration, just like everything else in the multiverse.

How can it be inside the Source Wall....When we've just been shown it's behind all of it?

Galan, sometimes I don't get you. out of all people You're using Mxy an notorious liar and trickster as a credible source

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
....The Dark Multiverse is inside the Source Wall...You do REALIZE that right?

Oh, so repeating the same point I addressed already. running out of arguments eh Galan?

the Monitor Sphere is inside the Source Wall, but you don't see the Source Wall while in the Monitor Sphere. Because it's not always just a wall, that's part of it but not the whole thing. When you're inside the Source Wall it looks like the original Kirby Source, with Kirby dots and stuff all over it. The Source Wall is a vibration, just like everything else in the multiverse.

Is it actually in your ability to put together an organized, cohesive, and well-informed post, or do you just go on these little off-topic rants to try and deflect your ignorance of the subject matter?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Galan, sometimes I don't get you. out of all people You're using Mxy an notorious liar and trickster as a credible source

...Well there goes the bulk of leo's argument, lol.

And I suppose we should supplant Mxy's statements with your personal opinion of how cosmology is structured, right? 😂

😂 ouch

🤣

as for what is 'descending'--mxy--again--says the 6th d is at the very TOP of the multiverse. the ultimate level. so....of course the new multiverse would descend from there.... confused we don't use 'descend' to describe something that is coming from...outside?

It's...really simple, leo.

Let's try this.

Put a tomato (mainstream Multiverse) on the floor under your desk. It is now dirty [source wall is broken]

Put another tomato (world forger's Multiverse) on your desk (6th Dimension)

Now, you have to descend the tomato [WF Multiverse] from your desk [6th D] to the floor at the exact same spot by applying your palm/fist [WF striking the anvill] at the same time your leg [Mxy] crushes the tomato from under your desk [mainstream Multiverse] in order to take its place.

Reading this, leo --- d---do----does the tomato under your desk contain your desk?

ya i dont get the hold up here?

even if you take away all the dialogue and just look at the PICTURE when myx was giving his description., what do you see?-

i see the whole multiverse in an orb.......the dark multiverse on bottom, world forge in middle, and the rest of the multiverse on top............and perpetua and her sons beyond that viewing it all from outside