Count Dooku vs Ahsoka

Started by ares83413 pages

facepalm

Just because Dooku didn't realize his life was on the line doesn't mean he was't giving it his all. How are you unable to grasp something so simple?

Bias, perhaps?

Originally posted by ares834
facepalm

Just because Dooku didn't realize his life was on the line doesn't mean he was't giving it his all. How are you unable to grasp something so simple?

I use common sense. The plan was never for Dooku to kill Anakin(Dooku's reason to hold back) it was to see if they could lure him to their cause. It's not hard to figure out.

If you're trying to get someone to join you why would you kill them? 🙂

We can piss, moan, screech all day about whether Dooku held back against Anakin (which I don't believe he did due to lack of sufficient evidence), but regardless of whether he did or not, what can't be disputed is Anakin's supremacy over Dooku which is why Palpatine wanted to recruit him in the first place. Palpatine explicitly says that Anakin is more powerful than Dooku in RotS movie, the G canon source, an immovable object in Star Wars history:

Darth Sidious: Soon I will have a new apprentice, one far younger and more powerful.

Source — Revenge of the Sith.

This statement from Palpatine is definitely reliable because because he knows how powerful Anakin and Dooku are. Here are more sources that reinforce his statement:

"Sidious then turned his attention to Anakin Skywalker, knowing that young Skywalker was much stronger in the Force than Tyranus." — The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia.
"Sidious is merely playing for time until he is ready to replace Tyranus with a new, more powerful apprentice, who will help him to achieve his ultimate aim: utter subjugation of the galaxy under Sith rule and the formation of a merciless new order — the Galactic Empire." — Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross-Sections.
"Re-live the incredible battle between two of the most powerful Jedi of all - as they fight to the finish on a Trade Federation Cruiser! Only the strongest Jedi remains—will it be the light side or the dark side of the Force?" — Battle Arena: Federation Cruiser.
"Darth Tyranus used to be a Jedi called Count Dooku. He thinks he's more important than everyone else, but he doesn't realize that Darth Sidious is using him in order to gain a more powerful apprentice—until Darth Sidious orders Anakin to kill him." — Star Wars Battles for the Galaxy.
"Sidious bared his teeth, but only briefly. "Darth Tyranus knew what he risked, Lord Vader. If he had been stronger in the dark side, you would be dead, and he would be my right hand." — Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

I think I might be missing a few, but we can make do with these quotes.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I thought Galan said in another thread that Lucas comments aren't canon anymore?
Only in the instances where his statements contradict new canon.

For example, GL originally intended for Vader's power/potential to have been gimped after the events of RotS, but that is no longer the case in canon.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
We can piss, moan, screech all day about whether Dooku held back against Anakin (which I don't believe he did due to lack of sufficient evidence), but regardless of whether he did or not, what can't be disputed is Anakin's supremacy over Dooku which is why Palpatine wanted to recruit him in the first place. Palpatine explicitly says that Anakin is more powerful than Dooku in RotS movie, the G canon source, an immovable object in Star Wars history:

This statement from Palpatine is definitely reliable because because he knows how powerful Anakin and Dooku are. Here are more sources that reinforce his statement:

I think I might be missing a few, but we can make do with these quotes.

Is any of that from canon sources?

Not one canon source says that Dooku held back and was letting Anakin stomp his ass for the lulz. You're making that up.

It was a contest set up to see which of them would make the more powerful apprentice for Sidious. Dooku failed.

Deal.

Originally posted by Sheev
Not one canon source says that Dooku held back and was letting Anakin stomp his ass for the lulz. You're making that up.

It was a contest set up to see which of them would make the more powerful apprentice for Sidious. Dooku failed.

Deal.

It's common sense.

Would you kill someone you were trying to get to join you?

LOL.

No it's just your illogical opinion and contradicts the facts.

You're trying to act like dooku was holding back here so that it diminishes Anakin's feat of stomping the crap out of him.

Dooku was NOT holding back, and no canon sources say he was. Period.

Common sense says he was.

Illogical "common sense" isnt canon.

Who cares. ROTS fight isn't a great one to go off anyway for numerous reasons. Dark Disciple basically listing them as equals is better. You can assume Anakin surpassed Dooku by the time of ROTS, and Palpatine saying Anakin is more powerful supports this.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ahsoka's fight with Maul in Rebels was literally 20 seconds long, and ended with her allowing a blinded Kanan to finish the job. Hardly enough to draw any conclusions, imo.

But as mentioned, we have a common denominator between Dooku and Ahsoka in the form of Anakin: Ahsoka contended pretty well against Vader(who is > RotS Anakin), whereas Dooku was decisively stomped by RotS Anakin in under a minute.

How much of an advantage could it have possibly given her, though?

After RotS, Vader created a new lightsaber style for himself in order to overcome the bulk of his armor -- so it's not like she would have known what to expect there. On top of that, Vader was also fighting differently in general, and fully embracing emotions that he never would have as a Jedi.

So again, not sure how Ahsoka's Jedi training under Anakin would have realistically helped her much at all against Vader..? He was a completely different animal than Anakin.


THow much of an advantage could it have possibly given her, though?
Actually, per filoni, vader training ahsoka was a disadvantage , hence why he said, anakin would win a 1 v1 because he's trained her. I have zero clue how "ahsoka had an advantage vs vader" was the conclusion from that.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Is any of that from canon sources?

Define canon first.

Ahsley, Ahsoka's voice actress, said that Vader and Ahsoka had mutual knowledge of each other's fighting style, for what it's worth.

Originally posted by Sheev
Illogical "common sense" isnt canon.
There is enough evidence in the Visual Guides and Ultimate Guides to back up my claim that Dooku was following a plan to lure Anakin to the Dark Side. Dooku was playing his part in this plan but was unprepared for the treachery of Sidious. There is nothing saying that he wanted them to fight to see who was more powerful like you claim. Dooku was just following orders and was even told that if the plan went astray he would help Dooku. Had Dooku been going all out he would have most certainly used Force Lightning but magically he did not and he used FL quite often in his fights.

If anything you guys are the ones making stuff up without any canon evidence.

Originally posted by YousufKhan1212
Define canon first.
You have to ask the mods.

Stop acting dense.

Do any canon sources say that Dooku was holding back? Yes or no.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
There is nothing saying that he wanted them to fight to see who was more powerful like you claim.

Literally has already been posted.

And I hope you realize the movie is canon right? That's one of the sources YousufKhan used...

Originally posted by Sheev
Stop acting dense.

Do any canon sources say that Dooku was holding back? Yes or no.

Common sense does.

Do any canon sources say he was going all out? 😱

Originally posted by ares834
Literally has already been posted.

And I hope you realize the movie is canon right? That's one of the sources YousufKhan used...

Don't you find it odd how easily Dooku was ragdolling Kenobi but not Anakin in the movie? Heck now it makes sense Dooku was going to kill Kenobi and taunt Anakin to join the dark side.

So I guess the movie does support my point as well.