Originally posted by juggernaut74
Don't you find it odd how easily Dooku was ragdolling Kenobi but not Anakin in the movie? Heck now it makes sense Dooku was going to kill Kenobi and taunt Anakin to join the dark side.So I guess the movie does support my point as well.
Nothing odd about it. Anakin is more powerful than Kenobi, or Dooku for that matter. So, once more, your point is moot. Plus Jedi/Sith rarely use their force abilities wisely.
Originally posted by ares834Anakin is more powerful than Dooku I agree. But experience and skill? Not a chance.
Nothing odd about it. Anakin is more powerful than Kenobi, or Dooku for that matter. So, once more, your point is moot. Plus Jedi/Sith rarely use their force abilities wisely.
And Dooku used his abilities almost every time he fought except when he fought Anakin. But that's because he was holding back.
Originally posted by ares834
No shit. Everyone knows Dooku didn't realize he was going to get killed. We've seen the movie. But that doesn't mean he held back.
The only extent you can go to reasonably salvage Dooku is argue that he was pulling lethal punches i.e. beheading Anakin, but that's it really, and it's not like Anakin left a lapse in his guard anyway, Nick Gillard said that Anakin's fighting style has the least flaws of all the fighters in the Prequels if I recall correctly (though Gillard also said that you'll never get the better of Palpatine's fighting style), so I doubt Anakin actually overextended to that degree at any point But we also have to remember that Dooku's elegant fighting style is about jabs and light cuts, he did with Obi-Wan in AotC, Dooku was not under any obligation to ignore opportunities of non-lethal victories (which his fighting style is optimised for), and I'm willing to bet Palpatine wouldn't have given a shit if Anakin received some superficial scratches. But the fact that Dooku didn't realise that Palpatine wasn't going to save his life from Anakin, isn't mutually exclusive with him doing everything he can to prevent himself from being beaten by Anakin. Anakin wasn't fighting with lethal intent either, he only killed Dooku because Palpatine coerced him.
Originally posted by Galan007
When it was just Anakin and Dooku fighting one-on-one, when did Dooku even have the opportunity to severely injure him?
I'm not saying dooku would have beat anakin, but I could see him throwing stabs that would force anakin to take defensive measures at the very least. Not having the license to kill at the very least prevents a range of attack options/angles. If dooku is able to take am at vital organs his attack range gets alot bigger.
And if anakin has to worry about dooku attacking everything, he doesn't have as much freedom to attack which could significantly elongate their battle.
Anakin wasn't fighting with lethal intent either, he only killed Dooku because Palpatine coerced him.
Originally posted by RockydonovangIt was mentioned in The Complete Visual Dictionary (2018) that Kenobi and Anakin switched up their styles against Dooku to confuse him:
Well they didn't just fight 1 on 1 did they? Is the "anakin and kenobi were just playing along" even a thing in canon?
Either way, I've said from the start that Dooku might have been holding back against them initially. But once Kenobi was removed from play, and it was just Dooku and Anakin one-on-one, what legitimate reason do we have to believe that Dooku was pulling his punches? As mentioned above, Anakin didn't really give him a chance to do... Anything at all from an offensive standpoint. He was on Dooku like a fly on shit.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
What? Palp coerced him to kill when dooky was already beaten.
Exactly, Anakin beat Dooku via non lethal means, before being coerced by Palpatine to kill Dooku once the fight was over.
There is nothing from the jedi code or anakin's own morality which would make him not try to kill dooku in the middle of a fight.
There evidently was, because Anakin only killed Dooku when Palpatine commanded him twice, which was after the fight was over, and even then, Anakin hesitates, showing conflict:
Palpatine: Good, Anakin, good! Kill him. Kill him now.Anakin: .......... I shouldn't.
Palpatine: DO IT.
*Anakin kills Dooku*
Palpatine: You did well Anakin. He was too dangerous to be left alive.
Anakin: Yes but he was an unarmed prisoner. I shouldn't have done that, it's not the Jedi way.
Palpatine: It is only natural, he cut off your arm and you wanted revenge. It wasn't the first time, Anakin. Remember what you told me about your mother and the sand people?
https://youtu.be/EQldOeZ75gY?t=155
Kenobi had zero issues with anakin killing dooku as he assumed it happened in the heat of battle. Anakin is almost certainly trying to kill dooku. Dooku is not trying to kill anakin.
Kenobi's morals don't really salvage Dooku, and he didn't witness Anakin's victory over Dooku. Anakin wasn't trying to kill Dooku in the fight itself, which is conveyed via his hesitation after the fight is over. Dooku at best was avoiding lethal means of beating Anakin e.g. beheading him, but it's not like it was feasible for Dooku to gained ground against Anakin given how hard he was being hammered, as the RotS novel describes Anakin's duel with Count Dooku as a "a comedy of lightsaber flashes," a "mere pantomime," a "play" in which "Dooku is already dead," a play where Dooku's "decades of combat experience," "mastery of swordplay," and "knowledge of the Force" are all rendered "useless, irrelevant" and even a "joke," while you could argue that is hyperbolic, given that Dooku only actually dies after the fight is over, but the intended subtext of that passage from the Lucas approved novel is that Anakin is humiliating Dooku in the final portions of the duel, which makes sense because Anakin, when drawing on the Dark Side as of RotS, is a 9 (albeit only physically, not mentally like Yoda, Sidious and maybe Windu who are proper 9s), whereas Dooku is an 8, and Gillard said that 9s are "enormously" above 8s: https://youtu.be/GUri1mzZAZM
Originally posted by RockydonovangThat's kind of my point.
I dont really know what you mean by "held back", but it does mean at the very least dooku wasn't including attacks that could have potentially wounded anakin mortally. So no, he wasn't fighting at 100% capacity. Is that enough to dimiss him getting stomped? Probably not. Acting like that doesn't mean anything while also hyping up vader in spite of lucas saying vader isn't shit is kinda ridiculous. Either dooku wasn't operating at 100% or Vader isn't> anakin.
I can't think of a canon quote off hand flatly stating that Anakin > Kenobi.
But I'm sure most would still agree that RotS Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi(especially given Palpatine's statement in the film that Anakin was "far younger and more powerful" than Dooku.)
And even back in DD, the implication is that Anakin was stalemating Dooku, which is obviously something I don't see RotS Kenobi doing solo.
Originally posted by Galan007
I can't think of a canon quote off hand flatly stating that Anakin > Kenobi.But I'm sure most would still agree that RotS Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi(especially given Palpatine's statement in the film that Anakin was "far younger and more powerful" than Dooku.)
And even back in DD, the implication is that Anakin was stalemating Dooku, which is obviously something I don't see RotS Kenobi doing solo.
True, but I just don't know if the gap between Legends!ROTS Skywalker and Legends!Dooku is the same as the gap between Canon!Skywalker and Canon!Dooku. So what's the canon take on Skywalker losing on Mustafar?
