Originally posted by Artol
Like I said in a biological sense people are what they are, in many ways unconsciously, although of course aspects of that can be changed.As for why I think trans women are women and should be considered women that is a twofold thing. I believe gender is in large parts socially constructed and only loosely related to biology, I think we can see that when we look at it historically and we can see that in comparative analysis of gender identity even within people that fit broadly into the gender they were assigned at birth. So there's two main aspects to it, that is self-identification and societal identification. With self identification I believe more or less in a prescriptive freedom approach, what you want to identify it is what your identity is to you. If you feel comfortable as a man, you are a man, if you don't feel comfortable as either man or women you are something else socially to yourself. I don't view that to be set in stone, and I don't think people need to even think about it, I think a lot of cis people never really question it, and that's fine. When it comes to society I think we should respect what the wishes of the individual are to the best of our ability, and of course within reason, so there are certainly trans people that pass, and they can live with little problem in society as the gender they are comfortable with, but then there are also people that, for whatever reason, have trouble to pass, but I still think it would be a good norm for society to attempt to make them feel comfortable, by treating them as the gender they identify with.
I agree with some of this. But why does a man's liberty to choose his own gender trump women's liberty to their own sex-based areas and communities?
And why is biology separated from 'gender'? I assume a lot of women 'feel like' women because they've grown into women from the day they were born — they deal with growing breasts naturally, menstruating, learning that they are the ones who can carry children. Even women where these things don't happen to them, or happen differently, deal with that in the context of what their sex is 'supposed' to be like. And same with men, too: our outlooks are shaped by our biology from day one. It's not like humans just started existing as we do now; these 'created' gender roles evolved this way due to the circumstance of our race, with outlines such as hunter / gatherer, etc. These are the things that shape 'gender', not whether we wear dresses or prefer guns to barbies, or whether we have a mental condition that makes us feel like something we're not and can never be.
I generally agree about being decent to trans people, obviously. I'd hate to live in a world where I'm just trying to look cute but then someone notices my Adam's apple and gives me shit about and makes me feel unsafe; or a world where I'm not allowed to even try passing without it being a crime. But in this part of the world, there is no legislation that specifically oppresses trans people, so that's irrelevant. We are, overall, in a part of the world that is accepting of trans people, moreso than almost anywhere else.
None of this trumps the fact that biologically, men and women are inherently different; and since men are by and large the more aggressive sex, and physically tend to be stronger than women, I think it's fair that women would not want biological males in their spaces. This is why just saying 'transwomen are women' is dangerous and short-sighted.