Who can tank Superboy Prime multiversal punch against BWL

Originally posted by Galan007
I know your post wasn't directed at me, but I thought I'd weigh-in...

First off, I originally posted those panels from IC to convey the fact that even Alex Luthor was absolutely awestruck by the effect that Prime's punches were having on the whole of reality. As has been mentioned ad nauseam: even though Prime had a fixed location/nexus point to strike, that obviously isn't a feat that any random character can replicate. We know this because Kal-L furiously punched/shattered those same walls "for what seems like hours", and caused no repercussions to reality:
https://ibb.co/0ZDTbtB
https://ibb.co/ZGthQ0P

_______________________

1.) In that particular scene, the artistic/authorial intent seemed to be that Prime was punching the mirror-like 'wall' of the Phantom Zone itself, imo. Hence this:

Full scene:
https://ibb.co/K6ySPYx
https://ibb.co/2KtXVXR
https://ibb.co/KGbnB1v
https://ibb.co/Kbjg050
https://ibb.co/P5JtLRv

I understand that the PZ having a defined space and/or bordering walls doesn't make much sense, but different writers often do whatever they want in cases like this(especially those involving Prime.) Now as for how punching out of the PZ could have altered continuity: I have no rational explanation for that. The PZ isn't historically defined as a multiversal nexus point(certainly not in the same way the Limbo realm or DN are)... But as mentioned in the above scene- that's just what Prime does(nonsensical as it may be):

_______________________

2.) Indeed. When Prime struck the alternate Superman(aka. "Saint"😉, his native world/reality was altered as a direct corollary:
https://ibb.co/qd4JzGS

Yet when the mainstream Supermen beat the shit out of Saint, his world/reality was never stated(or implied) to have been altered as a result:
https://ibb.co/YXXyRTG
https://ibb.co/mDqC1Qx

At this point it is abundantly clear that Prime's punches have an innate ability to alter/affect reality in ways no other being(barring high-end reality manipulators) can... When connecting with certain 'targets' that are in some way intrinsically tied-to creation.

This is an 'ability' that even Rip Hunter mentioned(and found ridiculous) after the events of IC:
https://ibb.co/sKxxMfG
"Everything in history predating the re-creation of the multiverse has gone malleable. Thanks mostly to Mr. Mind and that Kryptonian boy's tantrums, which I still find ridiculous to believe...Punching history. Please..."

But it is what it is... /shrug

_______________________

3.) Indeed. The battle between Perpetua and DN was being waged across every facet of reality, for multiple issues(to the point where the Source/Overvoid sent in the Chronicler to observe the multiverse's end):
https://ibb.co/bg6MSzx
https://ibb.co/whYLdWV

...Yet even Perpetua's attacks were never implied to have subsequently altered DN's creation in a similar manner to Prime's strikes:
https://ibb.co/LY0LZjj
https://ibb.co/51KvGJW
https://ibb.co/C04WWcv

Not sure why Prime being able to punch continuity so hard that it switches forms is being lowballed/downplayed to such extremes..? The fact that it is completely illogical doesn't change the fact that he's... Done it. 😕

👆 good post. I have a different opinion on the PZ deal. The glass pane was an artist’s depiction to show us SBP is in the PZ. More of How he is looks to us looking from outside the PZ. But while inside the PZ I don’t think he can see the glass panels. That’s how I interpreted it. When he broke out, the shards of glass I think were reality breaking around the punch for him to get through.
With that said, it is more than likely you are right and I’m wrong, and whoever uses your post to answer mine, I hope he also brings up my points you agreed with. 👆

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think it's any secret that Alberto is a troll. If people choose to engage with him, that's their business.

Originally posted by Diesldude
👆 good post. I have a different opinion on the PZ deal. The glass pane was an artist’s depiction to show us SBP is in the PZ. More of How he is looks to us looking from outside the PZ. But while inside the PZ I don’t think he can see the glass panels. That’s how I interpreted it. When he broke out, the shards of glass I think were reality breaking around the punch for him to get through.
With that said, it is more than likely you are right and I’m wrong, and whoever uses your post to answer mine, I hope he also brings up my points you agreed with. 👆

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Originally posted by MrMind
Galan check out the death metal 7 spoiler I posted in comic book discussion thread

Originally posted by Galan007
You could very well be right. That's just how I have always looked at the PZ scene, personally.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Except none of this proves Prime can "Retcon" reality, it's a forum myth, always has been. I'll debunk all of this in a few again

The fact that reality Changed proves it and this:

That's on panel evidence.

Originally posted by Galan007
You could very well be right. That's just how I have always looked at the PZ scene, personally.

This exact same Phantom Zone effect was shown when Zod trapped Superman in the Phantom Zone:

Now, that is from the outside perspective. What is visible from inside the Phantom Zone? This:

You can see the main Universe from there. But how?

Well, it's explained here:

1). Those are just 'leaks' of images/sounds.
2). You become a Phantom inside there

So essentially, Prime at best punched the echos of the mainstream so hard that it retconned the history of Beast Boy in the mainstream DCU itself.

It's like me punching my laptop showing a youtube video of Nickelback while I'm on Apokolips and retconning the real life Nickelback into Santana.

So...yeah. He seems to just need not to punch 'air' - i.e. he can punch reality walls [paradise dimension], he can punch images/sounds [phantom zone], or he can punch characters [alternate Supes/TBWL], and he reality warps. And even then -- the fact that he punched to the 5th dimension while he was Superman Prime lends doubt even to that fact. It seems he can punch hard to trigger his reality warping at will.

isn't there an scan that proved Phantom Zone is infinite in size?

Yes, it is.

Originally posted by Diesldude
I think he means that when DK was fighting perpetua, perpetua stated that he’s getting weaker. After he defeated perpetua he goes and performs reality alterations. Which was to stabilize the earth that the hero’s had destabilized earlier. But he fails to understand/ he does but doesn’t mention that once DK stabilized the earth, he had access to the crises energy and was back to full power.

Originally posted by Diesldude
I think he means that when DK was fighting perpetua, perpetua stated that he’s getting weaker. After he defeated perpetua he goes and performs reality alterations. Which was to stabilize the earth that the hero’s had destabilized earlier. But he fails to understand/ he does but doesn’t mention that once DK stabilized the earth, he had access to the crises energy and was back to full power.

No he wasn't you moron 😂 BWL was fighting Perpetua for a while BEFORE he stabilized the Earth. Him stabilizing the Earth has NOTHING to do with him EXPENDING energies in his fight with her.
You keep acting like his nonexistent "Retcon" punch matters in a vs battle or those that it wouldn't effect like Legion, Legion and even Kang as well as Thawne are Singularities, Legion CAME BACK from inadvertently ERASING himself from existence. That feat triggered the creation of the Age of Apocalypse reality. Legion came back from that. Years later, Legion came back from INTENTIONALLY erasing himself from existence when he INTENTIONALLY came back inside of a person's mind.

Do me a big favor and hang yourself so i don't have to keep seeing your posts everyday, its cringe AF.

Originally posted by MrMind
isn't there an scan that proved Phantom Zone is infinite in size?

Wouldn't Superman know this?

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d4e33c447fef9a26c9558f80da4dde3c

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No he wasn't you moron 😂 BWL was fighting Perpetua for a while BEFORE he stabilized the Earth. Him stabilizing the Earth has NOTHING to do with him EXPENDING energies in his fight with her.
You keep acting like his nonexistent "Retcon" punch matters in a vs battle or those that it wouldn't effect like Legion, Legion and even Kang as well as Thawne are Singularities, Legion CAME BACK from inadvertently ERASING himself from existence. That feat triggered the creation of the Age of Apocalypse reality. Legion came back from that. Years later, Legion came back from INTENTIONALLY erasing himself from existence when he INTENTIONALLY came back inside of a person's mind.

Do me a big favor and hang yourself so i don't have to keep seeing your posts everyday, its cringe AF.

Well if you take my BZ challenge up and lose, you won't have to see his posts any longer.

Originally posted by Galan007
I know your post wasn't directed at me, but I thought I'd weigh-in...

First off, I originally posted those panels from IC to convey the fact that even Alex Luthor was awestruck by the effect that Prime's punches were having on the whole of reality -- he had absolutely no clue how or why such a thing was possible. All he knew is that reality was being restructured before his eyes.

And as has been mentioned ad nauseam: even though Prime had a fixed location/nexus point to strike, that obviously isn't a feat that any random character can replicate. We know this because Kal-L furiously punched/shattered those same walls "for what seems like hours", and caused no repercussions to reality:
https://ibb.co/0ZDTbtB
https://ibb.co/ZGthQ0P

_______________________

1.) In that particular scene, the artistic/authorial intent seemed to be that Prime was punching the mirror-like 'wall' of the Phantom Zone itself, imo. Hence this:

Full scene:
https://ibb.co/K6ySPYx
https://ibb.co/2KtXVXR
https://ibb.co/KGbnB1v
https://ibb.co/Kbjg050
https://ibb.co/P5JtLRv

I understand that the PZ having a defined space and/or bordering walls doesn't make much sense, but different writers often do whatever they want in cases like this(especially those involving Prime.) Now as for how punching out of the PZ could have altered continuity: I have no rational explanation for that. The PZ isn't historically defined as a multiversal nexus point(certainly not in the same way the Limbo realm or DN are)... But as mentioned in the above scene- that's just what Prime does(nonsensical as it may be):

_______________________

2.) Indeed. When Prime struck the Superman knockoff(aka. "Saint"😉, his native world/reality was altered as a direct corollary:
https://ibb.co/qd4JzGS

Yet when the mainstream Supermen beat the shit out of Saint, his world/reality was never stated(or implied) to have been altered as a result:
https://ibb.co/YXXyRTG
https://ibb.co/mDqC1Qx

At this point it is abundantly clear that Prime's punches have an innate ability to alter/affect reality in ways no other being(barring high-end reality manipulators) can... When connecting with certain 'targets' that are in some way intrinsically tied-to creation.

This is an 'ability' that even Rip Hunter mentioned(and found ridiculous) after the events of IC:
https://ibb.co/sKxxMfG
"Everything in history predating the re-creation of the multiverse has gone malleable. Thanks mostly to Mr. Mind and that Kryptonian boy's tantrums, which I still find ridiculous to believe...Punching history. Please..."

But it is what it is... /shrug

_______________________

3.) Indeed. The battle between Perpetua and DN was being waged across every facet of reality, for multiple issues(to the point where the Source/Overvoid sent in the Chronicler to observe the multiverse's end):
https://ibb.co/bg6MSzx
https://ibb.co/whYLdWV

...Yet even Perpetua's attacks were never implied to have subsequently altered DN's creation in a similar manner to Prime's strikes:
https://ibb.co/LY0LZjj
https://ibb.co/51KvGJW
https://ibb.co/C04WWcv

Not sure why Prime being able to punch continuity so hard that it switches forms is being lowballed/downplayed to such extremes..? The fact that it is completely illogical doesn't change the fact that he's... Done it. 😕

Anyways, Galan, you're wrong in all accounts point blank

1. His "history" with retcon punches prior Death Metal revolved around the three times he punched the wall in Infinite Crisis.
First two times he only damaged it, and was tired. And the third time he was amped by Luthor's Anti Matter power. That's it. It was never done again because the conditions weren't met.

2.Fast forward to present times, after fans lost their minds around it, DC tried to force it in the present stories, not only it didn't make sense, but it also contradicted prior fights by not occuring in them.

3. SBP's fight with DK didn't change reality, those mirror like parts of the panels aren't something that was physically manifested, those were his dreams of a perfect earth, where he is considered a hero not a villain.

Inorder to use his "retcon" punch and make it applicable in debates, it needs more context and needs to actually happen on a full scale AND on a whim, not under specific conditions, period.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Opinions differ from yours on the connection of the corrupted Superman and Phantom Zone to the multiverse:

Originally posted by Galan007

1.) The PZ isn't historically defined as a multiversal nexus point(certainly not in the same way the Limbo realm or DN are)... But as mentioned in the above scene- that's just what Prime does(nonsensical as it may be):

Interesting. Hulkster, any comment? You seem a BIG fan of quoting mods 🙂

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Inorder to use his "retcon" punch and make it applicable in debates, it needs more context and needs to actually happen on a full scale AND on a whim, not under specific conditions, period.

...So are you saying I should close your thread, then? mmm

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No he wasn't you moron 😂 BWL was fighting Perpetua for a while BEFORE he stabilized the Earth. Him stabilizing the Earth has NOTHING to do with him EXPENDING energies in his fight with her.
You keep acting like his nonexistent "Retcon" punch matters in a vs battle or those that it wouldn't effect like Legion, Legion and even Kang as well as Thawne are Singularities, Legion CAME BACK from inadvertently ERASING himself from existence. That feat triggered the creation of the Age of Apocalypse reality. Legion came back from that. Years later, Legion came back from INTENTIONALLY erasing himself from existence when he INTENTIONALLY came back inside of a person's mind.

Do me a big favor and hang yourself so i don't have to keep seeing your posts everyday, its cringe AF.

And don’t tell me to hang myself you worthless POS. I saw your Facebook profile your dumb out of shape ****. You’re going to die of a heart attack or forget how to breath long before I even consider hanging myself.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I think the best way to look at this is, given that Geoff Johns wrote both of them, is how he writes the Phantom Zone.

This exact same Phantom Zone effect was shown when Zod trapped Superman in the Phantom Zone:

Now, that is from the outside perspective. What is visible from inside the Phantom Zone? This:

You can see the main Universe from there. But how?

Well, it's explained here:

1). Those are just 'leaks' of images/sounds.
2). You become a Phantom inside there

So essentially, Prime at best punched the echos of the mainstream so hard that it retconned the history of Beast Boy in the mainstream DCU itself.

It's like me punching my laptop showing a youtube video of Nickelback while I'm on Apokolips and retconning the real life Nickelback into Santana.

So...yeah. He seems to just need not to punch 'air' - i.e. he can punch reality walls [paradise dimension], he can punch images/sounds [phantom zone], or he can punch characters [alternate Supes/TBWL], and he reality warps. And even then -- the fact that he punched to the 5th dimension while he was Superman Prime lends doubt even to that fact. It seems he can punch hard to trigger his reality warping at will.

I'd say you're spot-on here.

Originally posted by Galan007

...So are you saying I should close your thread, then? mmm

😂 Thats why its a hypothetical situation, We know there's context to it but arguments can be made to that retcon punch not mattering to such beings in Marvel.