Originally posted by abhilegend
This is the only part of the inane babble that is worth replying. Read the scan again."Great and terrible Unkindness. A being of pure malevolence which ravaged the all of time and tide, insatiably consuming every thread of existence."
The comic and it's follow up explicitly state that it was unkindness alone which consumed entire existence but our resident village clown thinks otherwise.
When you can read it, get back to me.
👆 Too much for any Phoenix, IMO.
Originally posted by Senor Cage
👆 Too much for any Phoenix, IMO.
Shes virtually feat free. Her destruction spree was not only just one dimension at a time (which many cosmics can do) but also happened off panel and with the documented aid of the Lords of Chaos. Phoenix hosts wipe out dimensions casually with a thought. Unkindness never showed that scale of power. Just a long ass interdimensional trawl that eventually lead to her destroying most of DC, but without us ever seeing who she had to oppose in her trawl, as it all happened off panel and was 800 yrs in the future, leaving us not having a clue as to what, or who her opposition might have been that far in the future.
Unverifiable, unquantifiable and hyped to oblivion. blowup
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Shes virtually feat free. Her destruction spree was not only just one dimension at a time (which many cosmics can do) but also happened off panel and with the documented aid of the Lords of Chaos. Phoenix hosts wipe out dimensions casually with a thought. Unkindness never showed that scale of power. Just a long ass interdimensional trawl that eventually lead to her destroying most of DC, but without us ever seeing who she had to oppose in her trawl, as it all happened off panel and was 800 yrs in the future, leaving us not having a clue as to what, or who her opposition might have been that far in the future.Unverifiable, unquantifiable and hyped to oblivion. blowup
Phoenix is barely universal level, bro.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is your retort? You are so rubbish 😆
This is the level of effort you're worth to.
And yet multiple times in his latest Marvel work he has defined the multiverse as being composed of 616 universes. A retcon supercedes whats come before. Engage that brain before you speak. ✅
No, he hasn't.
The Earths timeline is a part of the universes timeline. Are you seriously telling me you believe everything in Marvel has its own individual, isolated timeline? Do you really believe that? 😱 😂
Let me guess, when Bishop stopped Legion from killing Xavier and stop age of Apocalypse, it was a universal feat?
You're a clown.
Are you really saying that if you travelled back in time to Earths ancient past that the rest of the universe wouldnt also be at that same ancient point in time? 😱 According to your wackiness Earth is somehow a part of the 616 universe yet also on its own isolated timeline? Is that actually what youre gonna publicly say? 😆
Nonsense.
If that was the case then explain What Ifs. Why does a change in an Earth based decision result in an entirely new divergent universe? This is a well documented phenomena in Marvel. You cant make a large change to history without effecting the universe, hence why the Multiversal Masters activities were stated multiple times to have had universal ramifications and to have resulted in the relevant universes being rewritten:
Hey idiot, restoring the original timeline isn't a universal feat because they're simply undoing the original action which caused the divergence.
The Earths were where the altered events took place. Thats why the reference is to the Earths needing to be changed. However as clearly shown within said comic, the activities of the multiversal masters of Evils rewrote the entire universe of said Earths, which is understandable given Earth and its heroes are a significant cosmic player. Take them off the board and then of course its going to create wholesale change in a reality.What you seem to be unable to process is that simply altering history and undoing the deaths of the ancient Avengers in every universe whilst that would've returned those realities to how they were originally meant to be, it also would've erased the assembled multiversal Avengers who were the result of those altered histories:
So Phoenix and Starbrand had to not only undo the killing of each universes ancient avengers, but somehow manage and alter the resultant changes those adjustments would've created throughout the timeline, to somehow keep the multiversal Avengers in existence despite the events that created them in the 1st place no longer existing within the timeline. A monumental feat of simultaneous time and reality manipulation. 🙂
Nonsense lol. This just in, Bishop is a universal power.
Youve conveniently neglected to quote and respond to all the individual points and evidence that you cant counter or explain away and have just posted some throwaway nonsense thats easily rubbished. Youre a joke of a debater.
Abhi just hush. Youre a traumatised opponent who engages me in debate out of a misguided vendetta youre pursuing by your lonesome 🙁 Out here putting up nonsense, incoherent, indefensible opposition because you remain mad that I absolutely ate you up 2 years ago 😆
You're monumentally stupid.
Originally posted by abhilegend
This is the level of effort you're worth to.
No. Its just the full extent of your debating ability. You are not fit for purpose. Fall back 🙂
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he hasn't.
Oh he definitely has and ive demonstrated so in this thread. You not providing any contrary evidence and simply giving a denial is wet paper bag levels of useless. Do better. ✅
Originally posted by abhilegend
Let me guess, when Bishop stopped Legion from killing Xavier and stop age of Apocalypse, it was a universal feat? You're a clown.
Who on Earth said that? 😱 Because i certainly didnt. For you to think that again just highlights the narrow limits of your mental faculties.
You presented a ridiculous perspective that the Earth despite being a part of the 616 timeline could have a significant part of its history changed without effecting the wider universe:
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, they reset timeline of 615 Earths. No universes.
I corrected your nonsense by highlighting how the Age of Apocalypse reality was created by an Earth based incident therefore demonstrating my point, that Earth cant be within 616 and yet have its own independent, non-interconnected timeline. Do not put words in my mouth and tell me I'm saying things I did not say. If you have no counter, man up and accept that L. Do not turn to deceit.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nonsense.
Translation: shit got me stumped. Defaulting to denial.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Hey idiot, restoring the original timeline isn't a universal feat because they're simply undoing the original action which caused the divergence.Nonsense lol. This just in, Bishop is a universal power.
Carry on highlighting your gross ineptitude Abigail.
Can you show me where in Avengers Assembled Omega, Firehair and Starbrand time travelled back to the past in person, had fisticuffs with the Masters of Evil, overpowering them subsequently preventing the alteration of history?
Can you then show me where in Age of Apocalypse Bishop cast his power back across the entire universal timeline, and remotely edited events like an MS Word document?
Can you then show me where in AOA Bishop supplemented said chronal editing with warping reality, to somehow selectively retain elements of the previously altered timeline within the restored timeline, despite the fact that the events that created said elements, were just edited out of history? 😕
Absolute donut 😆 LOL
Originally posted by abhilegend
You're monumentally stupid.
No. Just monumentally more intelligent, knowledgeable and witty with it. Hate me biatch! 😱 😆
Originally posted by Senor Cage
Overrated, imo. And i used to be a huge phoenix fan. Primarily rachel.
I can guarantee your views are down to misconceptions. Because the Phoenix Force by canon is top tier in Marvel. If you think its barely universal then that's an indication of a gross misunderstanding on your part.
Instead of just popping up with these quips, why not explain and evidence your thinking? I can guarantee it wont hold up to scrutiny 😉
Originally posted by GalacticStormbut the actual canon feats of Dark Phoenix don't back up your stance, do they?
Maybe according to your head canon, but fortunately its the actual comics we refer to for debating purposes mate 😉 👆
I understand your position that Dark Phoenix is just a mindset. But if we're asserting that Dark Phoenix is universal+, we're relying on feats from different Phoenix versions - correct?
Originally posted by Smurph
but the actual canon feats of Dark Phoenix don't back up your stance, do they?I understand your position that Dark Phoenix is just a mindset. But if we're asserting that Dark Phoenix is universal+, we're relying on feats from different Phoenix versions - correct?
Not quite. The difference between the colours is purely state of mind, there arent different abilities or physical states between the colours. Its not like Green Hulk vs Grey Hulk for example where they qualify as distinct beings for debating purposes. Here we're talking of the same character, same abilities, the same experience. So once an ability or level of power has been established for Jean Phoenix, it can be referenced and brought to the table no matter what Phoenix state shes in. The forum rules dictate the most current version of a character be used. Jean was Dark Phoenix in Endsong in 2005.
In Endsong Jean cycled through green, red and white Phoenix states in the span of a few pages for example. Her powers remain the same throughout them, but her propensity alters.
Dark Phoenix is just a reference to a state of mind that a Phoenix host can reach when its fully embracing its destructive urges and loses inhibitions:
If the thread maker wanted to handicap Jean to make it more of a debate then he could have said Jean Grey Dark Phoenix as she appeared in Uncanny X-men in the early 80s. Such a restriction wasn't imposed.
Originally posted by GalacticStormyeah, again, I understand your position - Dark Phoenix is just a mindset, ergo, feats can transfer between Phoenix colours.
Not quite. The difference between the colours is purely state of mind, there arent different abilities or physical states between the colours. Its not like Green Hulk vs Grey Hulk for example where they qualify as distinct beings for debating purposes. Here we're talking of the same character, same abilities, the same experience. So once an ability or level of power has been established for Jean Phoenix, it can be referenced and brought to the table no matter what Phoenix state shes in. The forum rules dictate the most current version of a character be used. Jean was Dark Phoenix in Endsong in 2005.In Endsong Jean cycled through green, red and white Phoenix states in the span of a few pages for example. Her powers remain the same throughout them, but her propensity alters.
Dark Phoenix is just a reference to a state of mind that a Phoenix host can reach when its fully embracing its destructive urges and loses inhibitions:
If the thread maker wanted to handicap Jean to make it more of a debate then he could have said Jean Grey Dark Phoenix as she appeared in Uncanny X-men in the early 80s. Such a restriction wasn't imposed.
But circling back to my actual question - can you point to a universal+ Dark Phoenix feat?
Originally posted by Smurph
yeah, again, I understand your position - Dark Phoenix is just a mindset, ergo, feats can transfer between Phoenix colours.But circling back to my actual question - can you point to a universal+ Dark Phoenix feat?
I wouldnt need to for the reasons ive explained comprehensively in my last post. Its not a separate, distinct character, so any Jean Phoenix feats could be referenced. 😕
Originally posted by GalacticStormI didn't say you would need to. I just asked if Dark Phoenix has a single universal feat.
I wouldnt need to for the reasons ive explained comprehensively in my last post. Its not a separate, distinct character, so any Jean Phoenix feats could be referenced. 😕
But, to be clear, your whole argument relies on what Dark Phoenix could theoretically do. Not something Dark Phoenix has ever actually done on panel.
Originally posted by Smurph
I didn't say you would need to. I just asked if Dark Phoenix has a single universal feat.But, to be clear, your whole argument relies on what Dark Phoenix could theoretically do. Not something Dark Phoenix has ever actually done on panel.
Jean Phoenix has multiple universal on panel feats. Dark Phoenix isn't a separate being or entity. So that wouldn't be true at all. There's no getting around that point.
You're trying to debate under parameters that the thread maker has not set. 😕
Originally posted by GalacticStormWell, the thread maker specifies Dark Phoenix Jean. And I'm just confirming that I haven't missed Dark Phoenix Jean pulling off a universal feat somewhere. So the only case for Dark Phoenix Jean is based on other Phoenix feats - we agree on that, right?
Jean Phoenix has multiple universal on panel feats. Dark Phoenix isn't a separate being or entity. So that wouldn't be true at all. There's no getting around that point.You're trying to debate under parameters that the thread maker has not set. 😕
I haven't touched on whether that speculation is reasonable or not. You're getting a bit defensive but this isn't really a debate, I'm just asking.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No. Its just the full extent of your debating ability. You are not fit for purpose. Fall back 🙂
You're simply not worth the effort. Even master, a clown of highest degree was at least coherent.
Oh he definitely has and ive demonstrated so in this thread. You not providing any contrary evidence and simply giving a denial is wet paper bag levels of useless. Do better. ✅
Nope, you just cherry picked a few scans as usual.
Who on Earth said that? 😱 Because i certainly didnt. For you to think that again just highlights the narrow limits of your mental faculties.
You presented a ridiculous perspective that the Earth despite being a part of the 616 timeline could have a significant part of its history changed without effecting the wider universe:
Again, simply nonsense. Timeline reset doesn't need universal power in marvel, too many examples to count.
I corrected your nonsense by highlighting how the Age of Apocalypse reality was created by an Earth based incident therefore demonstrating my point, that Earth cant be within 616 and yet have its own independent, non-interconnected timeline. Do not put words in my mouth and tell me I'm saying things I did not say. If you have no counter, man up and accept that L. Do not turn to deceit.
Incoherent babbling is all you have. Let me know when Bishop gets universal feats for reversing Age of Apocalypse timeline change.
Translation: shit got me stumped. Defaulting to denial.Carry on highlighting your gross ineptitude Abigail.
Can you show me where in Avengers Assembled Omega, Firehair and Starbrand time travelled back to the past in person, had fisticuffs with the Masters of Evil, overpowering them subsequently preventing the alteration of history?
They literally didn't reality warp an entire universe lol.
Can you then show me where in Age of Apocalypse Bishop cast his power back across the entire universal timeline, and remotely edited events like an MS Word document?Can you then show me where in AOA Bishop supplemented said chronal editing with warping reality, to somehow selectively retain elements of the previously altered timeline within the restored timeline, despite the fact that the events that created said elements, were just edited out of history? 😕
Absolute donut 😆 LOL
Absolute nonsense. Read heroes return which is referred as to how they revert timeline to normal, by destroying the original object which reverted the timeline.
No. Just monumentally more intelligent, knowledgeable and witty with it. Hate me biatch! 😱 😆
You're an illiterate child, why would I hate you?
Originally posted by Smurph
Well, the thread maker specifies Dark Phoenix Jean. And I'm just confirming that I haven't missed Dark Phoenix Jean pulling off a universal feat somewhere. So the only case for Dark Phoenix Jean is based on other Phoenix feats - we agree on that, right?I haven't touched on whether that speculation is reasonable or not. You're getting a bit defensive but this isn't really a debate, I'm just asking.
Forgive me. Not being defensive. Just questioning and trying to understand your position.
You seem intent on separating the colours as if they're different beings when the thread parameters don't mandate that. So my answer to your question would be no I don't agree. Because a different temperament and propensity doesn't equal a different entity. There are just Jean Phoenix feats.
The thread maker didn't say Dark Phoenix as shown in Uncanny Xmen 135 to 137. He simply said this involves Dark Phoenix which by canon is just a mindset any hosts can reach. Jean most recently was Dark Phoenix in New Xmen in 2004 and Endsong in 2005.
Originally posted by GalacticStormRight. And Jean, in that mindset, has never performed a universal feat?
Forgive me. Not being defensive. Just questioning and trying to understand your position.You seem intent on separating the colours as if they're different beings when the thread parameters don't mandate that. So my answer to your question would be no I don't agree. Because a different temperament and propensity doesn't equal a different entity. There are just Jean Phoenix feats.
The thread maker didn't say Dark Phoenix as shown in Uncanny Xmen 135 to 137. He simply said this involves Dark Phoenix which by canon is just a mindset any hosts can reach. Jean most recently was Dark Phoenix in New Xmen in 2004 and Endsong in 2005.