Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dark Phoenix is a recognizable face of the same character. Not a distinct or separate entity. Ive listed Jean Phoenixes best feats. Do with that info what you will.Until such times as you provide evidence that the Dark Phoenix face of a Phoenix host has distinct and unique abilities your strategy remains a non starter.
Tick tock. 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yet another disposable post from someone who is clearly out of their depth 🙂The gist of it is "Nonsense...nonsense..nonsense" to my posts that you couldnt counter. Which was virtually all of them! 😱 😆
So i no longer need to go point for point with you as you remain dumbfounded and handled by my previous works. So instead you'll get a lil summary.
😂
1)Aarons Avengers run established the multiverse is composed of 616 universes. Until you share Marvel publications that have come after April 2023 that disprove this point, then the point stands. Your views to the contrary as ever remain insufficient. ✅
The very first masters of evil arc had deathloks travel a thousand universes to warn Starbrand.
It also mentioned a million firmaments lol but that's for later.
2)I didnt say that altering an event was in itself a universal scale feat, but what i did do was highlight your farcical attempt to diminish Phoenixes feat, by equating the methods she used (remote chronal alteration of the timeline) to what Bishop did, (physically travelling back in time and engaging in low level fisticuffs) 😬
How did Phoenix/Starbrand restore 616 timeline from Heroes Reborn universe which is referred here?
You guess it, physically. That's what happened here too.
3)Furthermore what you persistently seem unable to grasp is altering an event to reset reality wasnt the extent of Phoenixes feat. She altered history, but then merged aspects of the superseded reality,(the multiversal Avengers and their lives) with the restored reality, thereby creating a modified version of the original reality except with the thousands of multiversal Avengers members now a part of it:
That's not what happened lol. She merely reversed the timeline and spared the avengers who were anyway outside the timelines as they were at the God Quarry. There is no mention of any modified reality.
You have given zero counter for that 2nd part of the process. All you've made is a weak attempt to write off and diminish the whole feat by likening the 1st part of the process (the event alteration) to what Bishop did despite the vastly different methods employed. 🙄Another L for the display cabinet. Youre on a roll Abigail 😆
😂
You're a glutton for punishment.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂The very first masters of evil arc had deathloks travel a thousand universes to warn Starbrand.
This was your trump card?! You spent all yesterday scouring that story arc for this?!! 😱
Do you know what purple prose is? Probably not because you're demonstrably mentally defunct.
Heres a clue.....its that Deathloks entire flowery speech LOL.
Hes in awe of someone who his group feels is destined to play a pivotal role in being a saviour of reality and he's therefore talking ornately and poetically to revere her and demonstrate respect. Not literally.
"We have crossed a thousand universes FOLLOWING A STAR" Is Starbrand a literal star or is she a human host to a planetary defence system? If you accept that she isnt literally a star then why are you selectively accepting the 1st part of the sentence ("We have crossed a thousand universes"😉 as a statement of fact and not the latter half of the same sentence? 😕
Lets look at the rest of his speech:
"Holy Starchilde. The great multiversal polaris, whose sunlight shines on all corners of creation."
Purple prose fool LMAO
Meanwhile its indicated multiple times in the story arc that there are 615 diverged realities from 616:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Mephisto gathered his variants from every universe in the multiverse and there were 615 other Mephistos:Mephisto tasked Doom with leading the Multiversal Masters of Evil in reshaping the timeline of every Earth in the multiversal and said to leave Earth 616 till last:
After every other Earth in the multiverse has been altered and as agreed Earth 616 is left as the last one to tackle, it is declared to be the 616th Earth to fall:
In Aarons 5yr Avengers run, the multiverse was retconned to have 616 universes.
How long this remains in place wo knows, however it is the current state of affairs.
Can you please demonstrate support for this thousand universes in the multiverse claptrap anywhere else within this story arc? Not any other number, specifically 1000 so you can evidence that the Deathlok was giving a numerical fact. If you cant then this point is a non-starter. Back to the drawing board Abigail.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It also mentioned a million firmaments lol but that's for later.
In that case i'll wait till you officially bring this point to the table and dispose of it at that point in time. 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
How did Phoenix/Starbrand restore 616 timeline from Heroes Reborn universe which is referred here?You guess it, physically. That's what happened here too.
WRONG! 😱
The Heroes Reborn reality was created not from a changed event resulting in a divergent reality, but instead by a cosmic cube like artefact called the Hellahedron. It created an overlay across existing reality as opposed to a fully fledged new universe. Such overlays like those created by cosmic cubes and similar to what House of M was are comparatively fragile to a proper reality and therefore at risk of cracking:
Phoenix and Starbrand therefore had to counter the Hellahedron to reverse its reality overlay:
They thus restored reality.
Therefore in Avengers Assemble Omega when Starbrand refers to having reset a reality before in Heroes Return, that is not evidence that the reality reset they perform later in the issue was achieved in the same way. We know conclusively they werent as the Heroes Reborn was a reality overlay generated by the Helladron, whilst the Muliversal Masters of Evil actually caused a divergent reality that required an event change to reverse.
So entirely different method of creating a reality and an entirely different way of restoring reality. The only commonality between the two is the restoration of the original reality.
Furthermore lets address your attempt to diminish the reality restoration by equating it to what Bishop did.
Heres how Bishop restored reality:
He travelled back in time and engaged in physical, up close and personal fisticuffs to change an event.
Heres how Phoenix and Starbrand altered events:
Manipulation of the timeline. Remotely editing events like an MS Word Doc.
They are not the same. Have some integrity you joke.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not what happened lol. She merely reversed the timeline and spared the avengers who were anyway outside the timelines as they were at the God Quarry. There is no mention of any modified reality.
Wrong again lol.
Its explicitly highlighted within the issue that restoring reality would mean the Multiversal Avengers would cease to exist in their present forms:
This scene highlights the dilemma faced by the heroes. They need to do right by restoring reality, but they also dont want who they are, these altered versions to be erased, because whilst they recognise who they are should never have existed, the fact remains they now do exist.
Hearing this conversation, Phoenix walks away to resolve the situation.
Phoenix and Starbrand then not only reverse the tamperings of the Masters of Evil to restore reality to how it should have been, but they go a step further and override realities natural response to this alteration (i.e the automatic erasure of the heroes - the response highlighted in the comic) and merge the altered versions of these heroes into the restored reality. Effectively resulting in a restored but modified reality as evidenced by the continued existence of the thousands of multiversal Avengers.
You disingenuously try to assert that the Phoenix did nothing special and that the heroes were automatically saved just by being in the God Quarry. But that is a baseless line of argument because:
1) Whilst they might have been in the God Quarry at that point in time, altering events would mean that they never set foot there in the 1st place LOL.
2) Furthermore its explicitly stated that altering events would make them cease to exist. Something they wouldnt be shown to be so worried about if all they had to do was stay in the God Quarry.
3) By your wacky disingenuous assertion/lie they would get erased as soon as they stepped out of the God Quarry as reality would correct itself yet whats their 1st mission after the reset? A reconnaissance mission back into reality!! 😱 LOL
4) If all they had to do to stay existing was stay in the God Quarry, then what was the whole lotta trouble Tony stated Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare the heroes after they reset reality?
WHAT WAS IT? Just leaving them in the God Quarry? 🙄
Absolute nincompoop LOL
Have you no integrity? The lies you spew in an effort not to accept yet another loss to me.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂You're a glutton for punishment.
Im feeling second-hand embarrassment for you. You actually thought you did something here lol
Wrong biatch!
Stay racking those L's 😆
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This was your trump card?! You spent all yesterday scouring that story arc for this?!!Do you know what purple prose is? Probably not because you're demonstrably mentally defunct.
Heres a clue.....its that Deathloks entire flowery speech LOL.
Hes in awe of someone who his group feels is destined to play a pivotal role in being a saviour of reality and he's therefore talking ornately and poetically to revere her and demonstrate respect. Not literally.
"We have crossed a thousand universes [B]FOLLOWING A STAR
" Is Starbrand a literal star or is she a human host to a planetary defence system? If you accept that she isnt literally a star then why are you selectively accepting the 1st part of the sentence ("We have crossed a thousand universes"😉 as a statement of fact and not the latter half of the same sentence? 😕Lets look at the rest of his speech:
"Holy Starchilde. The great multiversal polaris, whose sunlight shines on all corners of creation."
Purple prose fool LMAO
Meanwhile its indicated multiple times in the story arc that there are 615 diverged realities from 616:
😂
As usual, you just double down on your idiocy. Here's two more from Avengers Forever.
"Multiverse of infinite possibilities"
"All Earths. All infinity".
You're just stupid now.
Can you please demonstrate support for this thousand universes in the multiverse claptrap anywhere else within this story arc? Not any other number, specifically 1000 so you can evidence that the Deathlok was giving a numerical fact. If you cant then this point is a non-starter. Back to the drawing board Abigail.
In that case i'll wait till you officially bring this point to the table and dispose of it at that point in time. 😆
Idiot. At this point, that's the only thing that comes to mind.
WRONG!
The Heroes Reborn reality was created not from a changed event resulting in a divergent reality, but instead by a cosmic cube like artefact called the Hellahedron. It created an overlay across existing reality as opposed to a fully fledged new universe. Such overlays like those created by cosmic cubes and similar to what House of M was are comparatively fragile to a proper reality and therefore at risk of cracking:
Phoenix and Starbrand therefore had to counter the Hellahedron to reverse its reality overlay:
They thus restored reality.
Therefore in Avengers Assemble Omega when Starbrand refers to having reset a reality before in Heroes Return, that is not evidence that the reality reset they perform later in the issue was achieved in the same way.
We know conclusively they werent as the Heroes Reborn was a reality overlay generated by the Helladron, whilst the Muliversal Masters of Evil actually caused a divergent reality that required an event change to reverse.
The process was the same lol, as referred by Starbrand herself.
So entirely different method of creating a reality and an entirely different way of restoring reality. The only commonality between the two is the restoration of the original reality.
Furthermore lets address your attempt to diminish the reality restoration by equating it to what Bishop did.
Heres how Bishop restored reality:
He travelled back in time and engaged in physical, up close and personal fisticuffs to change an event.
Heres how Phoenix and Starbrand altered events:
Manipulation of the timeline. Remotely editing events like an MS Word Doc.
They are not the same. Have some integrity you joke.
Bishop is just an example, you idiot. There have been numerous such alternate timeline resets in marvel.
Wrong again lol.Its explicitly highlighted within the issue that restoring reality would mean the Multiversal Avengers would cease to exist in their present forms:
It was already shown that characters outside the timeline were unaffected as Doom saved Doom-Thing earlier by plucking him out of timeline.
So no, they didn't need saving lol.
This scene highlights the dilemma faced by the heroes. They need to do right by restoring reality, but they also dont want who they are, these altered versions to be erased, because whilst they recognise who they are should never have existed, the fact remains they now do exist.
Nope lol.
Hearing this conversation, Phoenix walks away to resolve the situation.
Phoenix and Starbrand then not only reverse the tamperings of the Masters of Evil to restore reality to how it should have been, but they go a step further and override realities natural response to this alteration (i.e the automatic erasure of the heroes - the response highlighted in the comic) and merge the altered versions of these heroes into the restored reality. Effectively resulting in a restored but modified reality as evidenced by the continued existence of the thousands of multiversal Avengers.
You disingenuously try to assert that the Phoenix did nothing special and that the heroes were automatically saved just by being in the God Quarry. But that is a baseless line of argument because:
1) Whilst they might have been in the God Quarry at that point in time, altering events would mean that they never set foot there in the 1st place LOL.
2) Furthermore its explicitly stated that altering events would make them cease to exist. Something they wouldnt be shown to be so worried about if all they had to do was stay in the God Quarry.
3) By your wacky disingenuous assertion/lie they would get erased as soon as they stepped out of the God Quarry as reality would correct itself yet whats their 1st mission after the reset? A reconnaissance mission back into reality!! LOL
4) If all they had to do to stay existing was stay in the God Quarry, then what was the whole lotta trouble Tony stated Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare the heroes after they reset reality?
WHAT WAS IT? Just leaving them in the God Quarry? 🙄
Absolute nincompoop LOL
Have you no integrity? The lies you spew in an effort not to accept yet another loss to me.
Im feeling second-hand embarrassment for you. You actually thought you did something here lol
Wrong biatch!
Stay racking those L's 😆 [/B]
You're an absolute idiot, just full of air in that head. This is embarrassing. Read the stuff and come back. This is simply waste of time at this rate.
Originally posted by GalacticStormlol, so to recap:
Dark Phoenix is a recognizable face of the same character. Not a distinct or separate entity. Ive listed Jean Phoenixes best feats. Do with that info what you will.Until such times as you provide evidence that the Dark Phoenix face of a Phoenix host has distinct and unique abilities your strategy remains a non starter.
Tick tock. 🙂
I asked whether Dark Phoenix has a single universal feat. You dodged the question so I asked again, 5 times. You refused to answer.
I said, ok, so what's the best feat anybody has done while Dark Phoenix? Not just Jean, but any host. Again, you repeatedly dodged and refused to answer. You eventually offered feats from a different Phoenix colour.
Now you incorrectly assert that it's my burden to prove that Dark Phoenix can't feat share with other Phoenix colours. Of course I can't prove a negative, but that's irrelevant because it's your case to make. You're welcome to continue spouting theories about what Dark Phoenix can do but at this point it's just hot air and theories.
If you want to prove that any Phoenix personality is a multiversal power, go ahead and prove it. I haven't even taken a position on that question - maybe you're right! - I'm just underlining that, for pages, you've been bullshitting around the weak point in your argument.
You've said:
Originally posted by GalacticStormand
Top Phoenix hosts wipe out realities literally in the blink of an eye and have warped reality on a multiversal scale
Originally posted by GalacticStormand, repeatedly, that there's no difference in ability as between Phoenix colours.Dark Phoenix is just a reference to a state of mind that a Phoenix host can reach when its fully embracing its destructive urges and loses inhibitions:
Cool. So, if all of that is true, Dark Phoenix is a Phoenix host fully embracing destruction and wielding the power to wipe out realitieS in the blink of an eye.
So... what's the best feat of any host while Dark Phoenix?
Again? Youre entertaining if nothing else. 😂
Originally posted by abhilegendAs usual, you just double down on your idiocy. Here's two more from Avengers Forever.
"Multiverse of infinite possibilities"
"All Earths. All infinity".
You're just stupid now.
Can you please show where in those scans it refers to a number of universes?😕
Not only does it not refer to a number of universes, not only does it not refer to or validate your 1000 universes assertion, but it also doesn't refer to universes at all! Its talking about possibilities you clown. 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
Idiot. At this point, that's the only thing that comes to mind.
As per usual, when you cannot counter, you dismiss. So I will quote myself Concede on the point or put up counter it if at all within your capability (Newsflash - Its not)
Originally posted by GalacticStormCan you please demonstrate support for this thousand universes in the multiverse claptrap anywhere else within this story arc? Not any other number, specifically 1000 so you can evidence that the Deathlok was giving a numerical fact. If you cant then this point is a non-starter. Back to the drawing board Abigail.
So youre admitting you were wrong and there are no other references to support your previous 1000 universes assertion and are now abandoning that previous assertion for your new wacky interpretation regarding infinite possibilities?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, right. They just referenced it for shits and giggles.The process was the same lol, as referred by Starbrand herself.
Nope. She referenced it to highlight to this new Phoenix that her and a Phoenix had joined forces to restore a reality previously. Nowhere on panel did it state that the method she and this new Phoenix would use would be the same as her previous experience.
We know conclusively it wasnt the same method as the previous occasion was a reality overlay that was overturned by countering the Helladron, this occassion it was an actual diverged timeline as a result of a change in history necessitating a change in events. artefact countering vs event alteration.
Another L 😆
Originally posted by abhilegend
Bishop is just an example, you idiot. There have been numerous such alternate timeline resets in marvel.
And yet the point remains that there are levels. Physical fisticuffs to directly intervene in an event vs remote timeline alteration are not the same.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It was already shown that characters outside the timeline were unaffected as Doom saved Doom-Thing earlier by plucking him out of timeline.So no, they didn't need saving lol.
Nope lol.
Youve shot yourself in the foot. This validates the majority of my argument:
Originally posted by GalacticStormYou disingenuously try to assert that the Phoenix did nothing special and that the heroes were automatically saved just by being in the God Quarry. But that is a baseless line of argument because:
1) Whilst they might have been in the God Quarry at that point in time, altering events would mean that they never set foot there in the 1st place LOL.
2) Furthermore its explicitly stated that altering events would make them cease to exist. Something they wouldnt be shown to be so worried about if all they had to do was stay in the God Quarry.
3) By your wacky disingenuous assertion/lie they would get erased as soon as they stepped out of the God Quarry as reality would correct itself yet whats their 1st mission after the reset? A reconnaissance mission back into reality!! 😱 LOL
4) If all they had to do to stay existing was stay in the God Quarry, then what was the whole lotta trouble Tony stated Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare the heroes after they reset reality?
[B]WHAT WAS IT?
Just leaving them in the God Quarry?[/B]
The new evidence youve brought to the table counters point 1 alone. Staying outside of the timeline stops them from being erased. But returning to reality would be a death sentence to the Multiversal Avengers. It would result in instant erasure.
Reconcile the rest.
What was the whole lotta trouble Tony stated Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare the heroes after they reset reality? Leaving them in the Quarry?
Why was it safe for them to return to reality without fear of erasure(As they immediately did for their 1st mission) only after Phoenix and Starbrands efforts? Your own scan as well as my own confirms that simply reversing events would make reality a death trap for them from that point going forward. Reconcile that point with your assertion that Phoenix and Starbrand did nothing specific to help the heroes and instead just left them in the God Quarry.
Reconcile the points 🙂
Originally posted by abhilegend
You're an absolute idiot, just full of air in that head. This is embarrassing. Read the stuff and come back. This is simply waste of time at this rate.
You tried and failed yet again. A pattern you are forever locked into. That must be soul destroying? 🙁
Originally posted by Smurph
lol, so to recap:I asked whether Dark Phoenix has a single universal feat. You dodged the question so I asked again, 5 times. You refused to answer.
I said, ok, so what's the best feat anybody has done while Dark Phoenix? Not just Jean, but any host. Again, you repeatedly dodged and refused to answer. You eventually offered feats from a different Phoenix colour.
Now you incorrectly assert that it's my burden to prove that Dark Phoenix can't feat share with other Phoenix colours. Of course I can't prove a negative, but that's irrelevant because it's your case to make. You're welcome to continue spouting theories about what Dark Phoenix can do but at this point it's just hot air and theories.
If you want to prove that any Phoenix personality is a multiversal power, go ahead and prove it. I haven't even taken a position on that question - maybe you're right! - I'm just underlining that, for pages, you've been bullshitting around the weak point in your argument.
What absolute nonsense. 😬
What you did was try and indirectly worm in a case for there being different abilities for Dark Phoenix
I stated that Dark Phoenix was simply a state that a host can reach whereby they have succumbed to the corruptive elements of the power and lost inhibitions.
You then asked what feats have been performed by Jean as Dark Phoenix. A question about as meaningful as asking What feats has Thor done on a Wednesday vs a Sunday.
With your agenda being quite transparent i highlighted to you that we are not dealing with a Green Hulk vs Grey Hulk situation here, whereby its canon that said states of Banner have not only entirely different personalities, but also different abilities.
I have then continued to reiterate that point whilst you have continued your fruitless attempts to push me into saying what you want me to say.
It then got to the point where I just said do you know what, provide evidence that Dark Phoenix's abilities are unique to that state. That isnt proving a negative by any definition. Youre the one making baseless assertions however passively and indirectly that might be 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Again? Youre entertaining if nothing else. 😂Can you please show where in those scans it refers to a number of universes?
You mean an infinity of Earths isn't a number?
Not only does it not refer to a number of universes, not only does it not refer to or validate your 1000 universes assertion, but it also doesn't refer to universes at all! Its talking about possibilities you clown.
Silly me, I thought infinity of Earths were a number by itself.
How about million firmaments?
Is it still prose lol?
As per usual, when you cannot counter, you dismiss. So I will quote myself Concede on the point or put up counter it if at all within your capability (Newsflash - Its not)
LMAO, oh you're dumb.
So youre admitting you were wrong and there are no other references to support your previous 1000 universes assertion and are now abandoning that previous assertion for your new wacky interpretation regarding infinite possibilities?
😂
Again, you're stupid. An infinity of Earths, an infinite multiverse, a million firmaments, these are all referenced to an infinite multiverse. Not just 616 universes, which is stupid because we literally see Earth 818 and other more numbered universes in the run.
Nope. She referenced it to highlight to this new Phoenix that her and a Phoenix had joined forces to restore a reality previously.
Nowhere on panel did it state that the method she and this new Phoenix would use would be the same as her previous experience.
She literally did lol. Read the words again.
We know conclusively it wasnt the same method as the previous occasion was a reality overlay that was overturned by countering the Helladron, this occassion it was an actual diverged timeline as a result of a change in history necessitating a change in events. artefact countering vs event alteration.
Another L 😆
Nope, that's just you being dumb.
And yet the point remains that there are levels. Physical fisticuffs to directly intervene in an event vs remote timeline alteration are not the same.
Its the same principle in action. You don't need universal power to reset a timeline.
Youve shot yourself in the foot. This validates the majority of my argument:
The new evidence youve brought to the table counters point 1 alone. Staying outside of the timeline stops them from being erased. But returning to reality would be a death sentence to the Multiversal Avengers. It would result in instant erasure.
Where did you get this stuff, Dum Dum?
Reconcile the rest.
What was the whole lotta trouble Tony stated Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare the heroes after they reset reality? Leaving them in the Quarry?
Yes.
Why was it safe for them to return to reality without fear of erasure(As they immediately did for their 1st mission) only after Phoenix and Starbrands efforts? Your own scan as well as my own confirms that simply reversing events would make reality a death trap for them from that point going forward. Reconcile that point with your assertion that Phoenix and Starbrand did nothing specific to help the heroes and instead just left them in the God Quarry.
Reconcile the points 🙂
I don't need to. The comic made itself clear, being plucked from timeline saves you from reality altering.
You tried and failed yet again. A pattern you are forever locked into. That must be soul destroying? 🙁
Hahaha, I've never enjoyed destroying someone like this since I destroyed master.
Originally posted by GalacticStormSure.
Whether its passive and indirect or you say it with chest...make an assertion, then back it up.That will be all 🙂
I assert that the total number of multiversal Dark Phoenix feats is... zero.
I assert that the total number of universal Dark Phoenix feats is... zero.
I assert that Dark Phoenix Jean's feats cap out at... making a star go supernova and being compared to Galactus? I've been asking for actual pages at this point but feel free to correct me, please.
I assert that no user under the influence of Dark Phoenix has ever been able to access the level of power of White Phoenix's best feats (and at this point I'm selectively not addressing the context or interpretation of those feats - separate can of worms).
I assert that White Phoenix signifies Jean (or any user) at their most integrated with the full power of the Phoenix Force. Given that, it makes sense that White Phoenix's best feats will be orders of magnitude higher than Dark Phoenix. Frankly, the Phoenix Force is mostly just hype and hot air (I see why you're such a fan) but at least the upper crust of White Phoenix feats are something it can hang its hat on.
I assert that Jean Grey's predominant trait, aside from a refusal to stay dead, is that she fluctuates in power and scale and alwayyyyys has an excuse for being somewhere south of her true potential. And, in hindsight, Dark Phoenix Jean was always further south than White Phoenix. Is what it is.
Dear oh dear. The fact that you think the content of this post is sufficient counter for what ive said is demonstrative of your deficiencies in understanding and intelligence.
Look at it. Denial, denial, dismiss at virtually all points that you do not have the evidence or smarts to address. Again i will not take the quote for quote approach because as demonstrated it makes it easier for you to disguise the fact that youre dodging the bulk of my arguments and barely addressing a damn thing.
Lets begin 🙂
Originally posted by abhilegend
You mean an infinity of Earths isn't a number?Silly me, I thought infinity of Earths were a number by itself.
How about million firmaments?
Is it still prose lol?
LMAO, oh you're dumb.
😂
Again, you're stupid. An infinity of Earths, an infinite multiverse, a million firmaments, these are all referenced to an infinite multiverse. Not just 616 universes, which is stupid because we literally see Earth 818 and other more numbered universes in the run.
Concession accepted.
She literally did lol. Read the words again.
Nope, that's just you being dumb.
Its the same principle in action. You don't need universal power to reset a timeline.
Where did you get this stuff, Dum Dum?
Yes.
I don't need to. The comic made itself clear, being plucked from timeline saves you from reality altering.
Hahaha, I've never enjoyed destroying someone like this since I destroyed master.
1) You've gone from saying there are a thousand universes, to asserting comic references to infinite possibilities meant infinite universes and are now asserting the comic says there are a million universes in the multiverse. Your 3rd interpretation in the span of one forum page! LOL. They cant all be correct. Which ones are you admitting you were wrong on and which single interpretation are you putting forward as your final desperate stab? Make a choice and i will address it. I have counters for all 😱
2) Please highlight the specific part in this scan where the Starbrand states that reality was altered via the same method as it was in Heroes Return so they would be restoring reality via the same methods :
No interpretation. Just quote the specific part of the sentence that has Starbrand state explicitly that they would be using the same methods to restore reality?
3) Nowhere in this thread have i stated that altering an event is a universal feat. Yet because you dont want to acknowledge the actual point im making:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And yet the point remains that there are levels. Physical fisticuffs to directly intervene in an event vs remote timeline alteration are not the same.
You keep rehashing the same irrelevance as opposed to acknowledging what im actually saying. Either this is a ploy as you have no counter or a processing deficiency.
4) The comic makes it clear that killing the Earths ancient Avengers results in reality altering and erasing components of the future that wouldve been, restructuring itself in favour of a future based on one where there are no Avengers around, making reality a death trap for any elements of the original incarnation of reality. They'd be erased within reality:
What was the whole lotta trouble Tony stated Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare the heroes after they reset reality? Just leaving them in the Quarry? 😬
5) Their very 1st mission was a reconnaissance back in reality. Why did it only become safe for them to re-enter reality without fear of erasure after the "whole lotta trouble" Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare them? 😕
No cowardly dismissals or denials. Counter all 5 points with conclusive evidence or admit you can not.
This should be interesting 🙂
Originally posted by Smurph
Sure.I assert that the total number of multiversal Dark Phoenix feats is... zero.
I assert that the total number of universal Dark Phoenix feats is... zero.
I assert that Dark Phoenix Jean's feats cap out at... making a star go supernova and being compared to Galactus? I've been asking for actual pages at this point but feel free to correct me, please.
I assert that no user under the influence of Dark Phoenix has ever been able to access the level of power of White Phoenix's best feats (and at this point I'm selectively not addressing the context or interpretation of those feats - separate can of worms).
I assert that White Phoenix signifies Jean (or any user) at their most integrated with the full power of the Phoenix Force. Given that, it makes sense that White Phoenix's best feats will be orders of magnitude higher than Dark Phoenix. Frankly, the Phoenix Force is mostly just hype and hot air (I see why you're such a fan) but at least the upper crust of White Phoenix feats are something it can hang its hat on.
I assert that Jean Grey's predominant trait, aside from a refusal to stay dead, is that she fluctuates in power and scale and alwayyyyys has an excuse for being somewhere south of her true potential. And, in hindsight, Dark Phoenix Jean was always further south than White Phoenix. Is what it is.
You can assert to hell and back, but without any Marvel publication explicitly validating your tomfoolery, it means not a damn thing. 😬
One of Jeans greatest feats, arguably even her greatest was containing the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal, a power Pre-retcon Beyonder deemed sufficient to reduce him to his formless state. The power that wiped out the 6th multiverse. Lets remind ourselves which colour Phoenix achieved this:
Green Phoenix. 🙄
NEVER, has it been stated that there is a power difference between the Phoenix colours. What has been stated is that there is a difference in temperament and propensity. The Phoenix Force is after all a Kabballah based entity of duality.
It is an expression of Tiphereth:
In Kaballah the Supreme Being brings about creation by manifesting emanation points of its power into what would go on to be reality below. These emanation points are called sefirot.
In the above scans you can see Ewing incorporated this Kabballah cosmology by equating parts of the Kabballah system with places of cosmic importance in Marvel. TOAA's will to create resides at the House of Ideas (Keter) this crosses the Abyss/Land of Couldnt be Shouldnt Be (Daat) to the conversion point Tiphereth/White Hot Room where the will to create becomes the force to create which Ewing has highlighted is the True Phoenix Force. The Phoenix Force descends down the multiversal structure to Malkuth where as the Big Bang it forms the multiverse.
Here is the Kaballah Tree of Life where you can see all of the sefirot mapped out:
The right column is the pillar of mercy, the central the pillar of balance, the left the pillar of severity. As you can see, Tiphereth is the heart of the sefirot under the pillar of balance and represented by the Phoenix Forces orange. It is also the nexus point where the sefirot conjoin, which is why it represents balance and integration, it is composed of the varying characteristics of the sefirot. Hence the Phoenix Force and subsequently its hosts wearing multiple faces.
To the right notice the green sefirot of Netzach. Which is a sefirot of endurance and victory in the face of all odds. (Green Phoenix overcoming adversity and saving all of creation) and ultimately always being victorious:
and to the left you have Geburah sometimes spelt as Gevurah. The sefirot of judgement and fire represented by the colour red. Thus reflected in the comic as Dark Phoenix known for its severity and judgement by fire:
Whether its life and death, light and darkness, mercy and judgement or creation and destruction, the Phoenixes very nature is duality. But as stated on panel these are all just mirror images of the same being.
In the space of a few pages Jean went from green, to red, to white states in Endsong, with the comic demonstrating what colour a Phoenix materializes is simply a matter of mindset and headspace:
There has never been a canon statement attributing unique abilities to the Phoenix colours. What has been explicitly stated is that they are all just reflections of the same being.
Unless you have any explicit evidence to the contrary, you and your assertions can hold these nuts 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dear oh dear. The fact that you think the content of this post is sufficient counter for what ive said is demonstrative of your deficiencies in understanding and intelligence.Look at it. Denial, denial, dismiss at virtually all points that you do not have the evidence or smarts to address. Again i will not take the quote for quote approach because as demonstrated it makes it easier for you to disguise the fact that youre dodging the bulk of my arguments and barely addressing a damn thing.
Lets begin 🙂
😂
This is like talking to a child.
1) You've gone from saying there are a thousand universes, to asserting comic references to infinite possibilities meant infinite universes and are now asserting the comic says there are a million universes in the multiverse. Your 3rd interpretation in the span of one forum page! LOL. They cant all be correct. Which ones are you admitting you were wrong on and which single interpretation are you putting forward as your final desperate stab? Make a choice and i will address it. I have counters for all 😱
Are you retarded? An infinity of universes can contain both thousand and million universes.
How hard is that to understand? My only point is that marvel multiverse was infinite under Aaron, he didn't suddenly made it only 616 universes.
2) Please highlight the specific part in this scan where the Starbrand states that reality was altered via the same method as it was in Heroes Return so they would be restoring reality via the same methods :
No interpretation. Just quote the specific part of the sentence that has Starbrand state explicitly that they would be using the same methods to restore reality?
Starbrand specifically mentioned it's the same call as when they reset another wrongly rewritten universe, just more than one reality this time.
Its a simple scene, only a child would have problem understanding it.
3) Nowhere in this thread have i stated that altering an event is a universal feat. Yet because you dont want to acknowledge the actual point im making:
But that's all they did. They altered events.
You keep rehashing the same irrelevance as opposed to acknowledging what im actually saying. Either this is a ploy as you have no counter or a processing deficiency.
Inane babbling,eh?
4) The comic makes it clear that killing the Earths ancient Avengers results in reality altering and erasing components of the future that wouldve been, restructuring itself in favour of a future based on one where there are no Avengers around, making reality a death trap for any elements of the original incarnation of reality. They'd be erased within reality:
What was the whole lotta trouble Tony stated Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare the heroes after they reset reality? Just leaving them in the Quarry? 😬
Yes. The comic already showed time displaced characters such as doom thing were immune to reality altering. How many times are you going to repeat this garbage?
5) Their very 1st mission was a reconnaissance back in reality. Why did it only become safe for them to re-enter reality without fear of erasure after the "whole lotta trouble" Phoenix and Starbrand went through to spare them? 😕
I already refuted this with the evidence of Doom Thing. Repeating it wouldn't change anything.
No cowardly dismissals or denials. Counter all 5 points with conclusive evidence or admit you can not.
This should be interesting 🙂
😂
This is like a broken record at this point.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂This is like talking to a child.
Are you retarded? An infinity of universes can contain both thousand and million universes.
How hard is that to understand? My only point is that marvel multiverse was infinite under Aaron, he didn't suddenly made it only 616 universes.
Starbrand specifically mentioned it's the same call as when they reset another wrongly rewritten universe, just more than one reality this time.
Its a simple scene, only a child would have problem understanding it.
But that's all they did. They altered events.
Inane babbling,eh?
Yes. The comic already showed time displaced characters such as doom thing were immune to reality altering. How many times are you going to repeat this garbage?
I already refuted this with the evidence of Doom Thing. Repeating it wouldn't change anything.
😂
This is like a broken record at this point.
1) You defined the multiverse as having 1000 universes. You then asserted a reference to infinite possibilities was a reference to infinite universes. Youre now stating that a reference to Deathlok saying he saw a million firmaments means there are a million universes 😕 Youre all over the bloody place 😆
Lets look at what the definition of firmament is:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/firmament
Its the sky mate LOL.
So your evidence is inconclusive. Your Deathloks millions of firmaments could have been a reference to seeing the skies from millions of planets. INCONCLUSIVE. The definition of the word does not serve you. Back to the drawing board Abbie.
Meanwhile:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Mephisto gathered his variants from every universe in the multiverse and there were 615 other Mephistos:Mephisto tasked Doom with leading the Multiversal Masters of Evil in reshaping the timeline of every Earth in the multiversal and said to leave Earth 616 till last:
After every other Earth in the multiverse has been altered and as agreed Earth 616 is left as the last one to tackle, it is declared to be the 616th Earth to fall:
In Aarons 5yr Avengers run, the multiverse was retconned to have 616 universes.
How long this remains in place wo knows, however it is the current state of affairs.
The evidence clearly defines the number of universes as 616. Your attempt to dismiss this by saying oh but there is an earth mentioned called 818 so there cant just be 616 universes is weak. There being 616 universes does not mean that each one of them are numbered 1 to 616. However as explicitly conveyed, the assault was on every Earth in the multiverse and upon reaching the final Earth it was called the 616th one to fall. Thats conclusive.
2) Quote the specific sentence in this scene that states EXPLICITLY that the method employed to restore reality would be the same as what Starbrand and Phoenix did in Heroes return. NOT your interpretation. Quote the sentence that explicitly states your point or admit youre just making an interpretation:
3) By failing to address my points regarding Tonys reference to Phoenixes big effort to spare the heroes and why reality subsequently became safe for the heroes after Phoenix and Starbrands intervention, you have conceded that Starbrand and Phoenix clearly circumvented realities natural process of correcting itself following a historical event alteration and managed to alter reality so the multiversal Avengers were now safely integrated within it without fear of erasure. Good stuff 😄