Hulk vs versatility 1

Originally posted by leonidas
this guy gets it. i allow for a very small chance of some other survival ability to manifest though. 15 years ago if someone said hulk would grow a gland to breathe underwater it would have been laughed at too. so i do think there is a chance his body can change in a similar way. 👆

All that he's saying is that already existing abilities would allow break Magneto's concentration.

😂 thanks.

i did forget this bit:

Adaptability = Change. Change is changing something into something that is different than was before.

Good?

Great!

i appreciate the grammar lesson, but, damn if that doesn't sound a lot like something that is dynamic. think

End of page

Originally posted by Philosophía
It's hard to respond to anything regarding this thread without treating it as a joke, tbh.

You know, I know, Darksaint know -- hell, eveybody knows why Darksaint asked you that question. It's because he wanted you to realize how your 'possibly' can be substituted with 'you have no evidence'. So once he pigeonholed you into having to admit that you essentially cannot prove that Hulk can "adapt" to Colossus when all things are equal based on actual evidence and not possibly, it's easier to say "this will never happen! Hulk is lowballed".

I don't think he'd develop his dick into vibranium to counter Colossus' metal form because I have no evidence of that.

Because that's what I unfortunately do, I use evidence.

I don't use "possibly" to try to obfuscate the lack of evidence.

You're asking me why I mostly joke -- it's because there's nothing to address.

The arguments are literally not there. His regenerative blood grows flowers and he adapted to not breathing.

And this leads to, uh..

Nothing.

It's good to show he wouldn't die if left in space. And that his blood has regenerative properties.

Great.

But to see you stretch that into .. well, absolute fan fiction and going "/shrug it's possible" would be laughed at in any kind of serious argument based discussion.

It's fun if we're discussing hypotheticals while you admit there's absolutely no way you can prove it and it's just grasping at straws -- but you're obviously not doing that and you ACTUALLY think this disguised made up fan-fiction no limits is valid.

You're passing "adaptation" as pulling new abilities [like breathing in space or farting flowers] that you can't prove.

And you know you can't prove.

And Darksaint knows it.

And everybody knows it.

You don't have the actual direct on panel evidence even close to prove his Doomsday-like ability to suddenly developed nullification fields or flight or whatever shit.

Originally posted by leonidas
but seriously, no trolling or smart-assery--why limit hulk to wwh in your bz?

@phil. cool. reasonable discussion ftw.

1. has hulk showed on panel that he is capable of adapting?

2. has hulk ever been placed in a situation like the one ds tried to concoct?

3. if the situation has never been presented, how is it possible to give an answer? the chance of his manifesting some new 'power' is nearly nonexistent. [the chance his biology could be changed to allow him to survive is less so, but still extremely small. (btw go back and look at all the times anyone actually asked what i thought the chances were of this adaptation manifesting....)

4. i've never said ANYWHERE hulk creates....really anything. i said his body has shown the ability to adapt to survive. do you deny this has been shown?

5. i've never said he WOULD adapt. i've allowed for the POSSIBILITY of it. why? because he has in the past. are you saying there is ZERO chance hulk might adapt to a given scenario where his life is threatened?

6. i've NEVER, anywhere, suggested he can do what doomsday can do.

7. stilt's point was almost exactly the same stance i initially put forward--i suggested based on the fact that he could grow a new gland that he MIGHT be capable of altering his blood chemistry. he wouldn't need to though, imo, so it's moot.

not really sure what else i can make clear.

It wasn't WWH -- it was all Hulks [Savage, Professor, Green Scar, Grey] minus WBH.

legit--how come? if his not being able to overcome being hoisted in the air or battling blood control isn't 'strength related' then why not allow for wbh?

Stilt is literally disagreeing with you that Hulk would have reactive adaptation to Magneto lifting him in the air.

Originally posted by leonidas
certainly not by me. hulk isn't darwin,

Originally posted by leonidas
i am good to bz mags vs full, unneutered hulk any time you feel so inclined. 👆

Just in case Darksaint missed this since I know he have alerts on for me.

Originally posted by leonidas
legit--how come? if his not being able to overcome being hoisted in the air or battling blood control isn't 'strength related' then why not allow for wbh?

Stilt is literally disagreeing with you that Hulk would have reactive adaptation to Magneto lifting him in the air.

Originally posted by leonidas
certainly not by me. hulk isn't darwin,

again, nowhere have a claimed anything CLOSE to reactive adaptation. nor have i claimed, anywhere, that he WOULD adapt to a given situation. only that the chance exists. it would be something very rarely needed. his strength and healing are dynamic enough that little else would ever be needed to ensure his survival.

Originally posted by leonidas
@phil. cool. reasonable discussion ftw.

1. has hulk showed on panel that he is capable of adapting?

2. has hulk ever been placed in a situation like the one ds tried to concoct?

3. if the situation has never been presented, how is it possible to give an answer? the chance of his manifesting some new 'power' is nearly nonexistent. [the chance his biology could be changed to allow him to survive is less so, but still extremely small. (btw go back and look at all the times anyone actually asked what i thought the chances were of this adaptation manifesting....)

4. i've never said ANYWHERE hulk creates....really anything. i said his body has shown the ability to adapt to survive. do you deny this has been shown?

5. i've never said he WOULD adapt. i've allowed for the POSSIBILITY of it. why? because he has in the past. are you saying there is ZERO chance hulk might adapt to a given scenario where his life is threatened?

6. i've NEVER, anywhere, suggested he can do what doomsday can do.

7. stilt's point was almost exactly the same stance i initially put forward--i suggested based on the fact that he could grow a new gland that he MIGHT be capable of altering his blood chemistry. he wouldn't need to though, imo, so it's moot.

not really sure what else i can make clear.

1. Being shown as capable of adapting to breathing in space for example, yes. The example you're proposing based on a limited number of adaptable showings, on the other hand, is a no-limits argument that you cannot prove in any capacity. If you're ok with that, and go "yeah, it's not something that can be legitimately used as an actual provable argument", then it's completely ok.

2-3-4. That's exactly the point -- the fact that you lack evidence to justify his reactive adaptability [to Graviton, to Magneto, to Colossus] means that his question cuts like knife through butter.

Given this part:

the chance of his manifesting some new 'power' is nearly nonexistent.

If you think that his existing powers counter that like strength or thunderclaps or whatnot -- then ok. I don't really care about that part -- I care about thinking it suddenly nullifies the abilities themselves.

7 - Hulk growing new glands to counter electromagnetism is based on absolutely zero evidence, again, and we get back to manifesting stuff that you have no way of actually proving.

Originally posted by leonidas
legit--how come? if his not being able to overcome being hoisted in the air or battling blood control isn't 'strength related' then why not allow for wbh?

Originally posted by leonidas

You're the one who said his ability to adapt "apparently" falls short of skyfather magic:

Originally posted by leonidas
apparently his ability to adapt falls short of skyfather level magic...?

And said he'd "probably not clone himself like Lobo"

That's why -- again, Darksaint asked you about Colossus. To point out the absurdity and lack of arguments even against a one-dimensional metal russian guy.

As I said -- if we're both agreeing that it's a non-provable supposition, I'm "ok, I sometimes dream that Superman adapting his 4th D vision means he can also adapt his vision to 5th D and warp reality by looking at it".

We'd both have just about as many legs to stand on, but we'd both be honest about it.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, nowhere have a claimed anything CLOSE to reactive adaptation. nor have i claimed, anywhere, that he WOULD adapt to a given situation.

he could grow a new gland that he MIGHT be capable of altering his blood chemistry

lol, leo?

You're all "adapt adapt adapt!!!!" the entire thread and now you're

"Oh, I don't mean adapt, I mean...Stilt, I love you!"

While Stilt is indeed awesome, it's not worth trying to slide out of your entire argument just to have him be buddy with you!

Goom turned Hulk into the size of a mouse and Hulk body grew back by itself to normal...

https://ibb.co/nbBdcGq

1. Being shown as capable of adapting to breathing in space for example, yes. The example you're proposing based on a limited number of adaptable showings, on the other hand, is a no-limits argument that you cannot prove in any capacity. If you're ok with that, and go "yeah, it's not something that can be legitimately used as an actual provable argument", then it's completely ok.

but there IS SOME proof. if hulk can create a gland to let him breathe underwater, and can somehow adapt to living indefinitely surviving in space, why is it so ridiculous to you to suggest that it's possible he could alter his blood, for example? can i prove he could do so? 😂 of course not. could i prove the possibility exists that he MIGHT do so? yes. because, well, he has done SIMILAR things in the past. i think THAT is the biggest distinction between our stances. you're 100% right--i can't prove he can do anything SPECIFIC (which is why ds thought he was being so clever with his questions) but i've never anywhere claimed i could prove something specific. all i can say is he has changed his biology to meet life threatening situations in the past, so the chance exists he could so something similar again. and for the life of me i can't understand why that is such an unreasonable stance.

2-3-4. That's exactly the point -- the fact that you lack evidence to justify his reactive adaptability [to Graviton, to Magneto, to Colossus] means that his question cuts like knife through butter.

again, never claimed reactive adaptation. i brought up energy emissions BECAUSE he's done it in the past, several times. ds's problem was he was hoping i'd give something specific, but how do you do that in a scenario that has never happened? the question wasn't cutting, at all. the only possible answer is 'maybe.' likely? of course not. but that was never asked....

Given this part:
quote:
the chance of his manifesting some new 'power' is nearly nonexistent.

You essentially agree that yes, Hulk will not develop a new power like nullification field, or flight [i.e. Doomsday, Darwin etc], to counter Graviton or Magneto or whomever. So his "not breathing in space" is not relevant anymore, since new abilities in themselves are non-provable.

😂

not sure where you ever got the idea i said he would manifest new powers of that sort.

If you think that his existing powers counter that like strength or thunderclaps or whatnot -- then ok. I don't really care about that part -- I care about thinking it suddenly nullifies the abilities themselves.

nullifying? i'm not sure what you've been reading. i did say that if strength alone wouldn't be enough, or energy emission, then i don't think it's impossible his blood might alter in some way. likely? of course not. impossible based on what i've seen? no, not impossible.

7 - Hulk growing new glands to counter electromagnetism is based on absolutely zero evidence, again, and we get back to manifesting stuff that you have no way of actually proving.

never said it, so moot.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
legit--how come? if his not being able to overcome being hoisted in the air or battling blood control isn't 'strength related' then why not allow for wbh?
It is not strength related, no -- being suspended in the air, unless he develops energy manipulation, flight or somesuch is not something that can counter things like gravity reversal or being lifted by your blood. But WBH would vaporize Magneto with a few thunderclaps and his durability would make him impossible to put down in time before he does that.

i thought it was a pretty simple answer too. 👆

Not calling him Darwin or Doomsday doesn't mean you're not arguing that ability to a level that you do not have the evidence to do so.

You're the one who said his ability to adapt "apparently" falls short of skyfather magic:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
apparently his ability to adapt falls short of skyfather level magic...?

And said he'd "probably not clone himself like Lobo"

That's why -- again, Darksaint asked you about Colossus. To point out the absurdity and lack of arguments even against a one-dimensional metal russian guy.

As I said -- if we're both agreeing that it's a non-provable supposition, I'm "ok, I sometimes dream that Superman adapting his 4th D vision means he can also adapt his vision to 5th D and warp reality by looking at it".

We'd both have just about as many legs to stand on, but we'd both be honest about it.

(a) i was playing smart ass with ds, (b) i was talking about strength....

he could grow a new gland that he MIGHT be capable of altering his blood chemistry

lol, leo?

You're all "adapt adapt adapt!!!!" the entire thread and now you're

"Oh, I don't mean adapt, I mean...Stilt, I love you!"

While Stilt is indeed awesome, it's not worth trying to slide out of your entire argument just to have him be buddy with you!

i'm backing out of exactly nothing. altering his blood chemistry IS something i can imagine happening based on what i've seen regarding his biology. would he for sure be able to do so? again, for the 100th time--no. does the chance exist he could adapt to a new situation? again, for the 100th time, yes. why? because he has. the gland thing is a reference to something he actually DID though, so it's possible he COULD adapt.

not sure if you feel you've backed me into a corner or something, or if i'm moving the goalposts. neither is true. had anyone asked what i thought the odds of any of this happening was, i'd have been glad to explain i thought the odds were extremely small. but saying odds are very small is a FAR cry from dismissing something out of hand. if you want to criticize me for getting caught up and talking in absolutes when it seems like others were doing the same--well, to that i would plead guilty i'm afraid.

Originally posted by carver9
Goom turned Hulk into the size of a mouse and Hulk body grew back by itself to normal...

https://ibb.co/nbBdcGq

that's actually a good one carver. but it's this type of random thing that makes it impossible to talk in specifics. if someone said atom beats hulk by shrinking him and stepping on him, then someone suggested hulk would just....auto grow, it's the type of suggestion that would be laughed at. but there it is. like i said, hulk just does weird sh!t. sometimes all you CAN say is hulk is hulk.

Originally posted by leonidas
but there IS SOME proof. if hulk can create a gland to let him breathe underwater, and can somehow adapt to living indefinitely surviving in space, why is it so ridiculous to you to suggest that it's possible he could alter his blood, for example? can i prove he could do so? 😂 of course not. could i prove the possibility exists that he MIGHT do so? yes. because, well, he has done SIMILAR things in the past. i think THAT is the biggest distinction between our stances. you're 100% right--i can't prove he can do anything SPECIFIC (which is why ds thought he was being so clever with his questions) but i've never anywhere claimed i could prove something specific. all i can say is he has changed his biology to meet life threatening situations in the past, so the chance exists he could so something similar again. and for the life of me i can't understand why that is such an unreasonable stance.

again, never claimed reactive adaptation. i brought up energy emissions BECAUSE he's done it in the past, several times. ds's problem was he was hoping i'd give something specific, but how do you do that in a scenario that has never happened? the question wasn't cutting, at all. the only possible answer is 'maybe.' likely? of course not. but that was never asked....

😂

not sure where you ever got the idea i said he would manifest new powers of that sort.

nullifying? i'm not sure what you've been reading. i did say that if strength alone wouldn't be enough, or energy emission, then i don't think it's impossible his blood might alter in some way. likely? of course not. impossible based on what i've seen? no, not impossible.

never said it, so moot.

i thought it was a pretty simple answer too. 👆

We're not going into the part of why his body would have no reason to adapt [I can give you a few hints here, but I don't think there's any reason to go further into a tangential topic], it's that you can't prove based on some silly low-level oxygen adaption that he can

If our standard is not "provable" and instead it's "not impossible" then this is just a fun fan-fiction discussion, not a serious thread on Hulk actually doing any of this. And I'm all for that, as long as we're clear what we're getting into.

I can't ascribe anything for your intentions here, initial ones or current -- perhaps I misread it. But if you agree that this specific part of the discussion -- new abilities/glands and shit is not provable and isn't actually a concrete argument then eh, ok.

I just think it's much easier to give Hulk a bit of reputation by not putting him against stuff that you're REALLY hard pressed to prove. Being lifted in the air by his blood/energy, or by reversing gravity, or whatnot, requires lots of grasping at straws and fan-fiction to justify. In that sense, I think the thread kind of highlights [again] his lack of mobility and the fact that he just gets on by strength/durability and healing. It's like trying to highlight Superman against Kryptonite Man and "Red Sun Radiation" Man. Against other than this specific types of attacks [that very few characters have] I think people would be surprised. I think you made the thread because you're still hung up on Magneto [....randomly....] from a thread a while back. Which is fine, but it's weird.

Here's an idea for a thread: Hulk vs Thor. I'm pretty sure it can be proved that Hulk can go through every one of Thor's attacks.

Unless Thor lifts him up with a storm, eh?

depends on what the goal is i guess. again, proving something IS possible, is different from proving a SPECIFIC thing will happen. i've never claimed that.

not really hung up on mags though. was planning to escalate the thread. hence the number 1, but this is more than enough. and i disagree with the outcome--i don't think people were even aware of many of the showings highlighted here, so for that alone, i think it served a purpose. we'll simply disagree on....well, something i guess. 👆

He can certainly breath in space 👆

But seriously, make a Hulk vs Thor on the ground, no BFR/lifting in the air. Non-WBH, right, if you catch my drift?