Hulk vs versatility 1

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Do people really lowball him though Carver? Even in a comics forum we have to be somewhat realistic.

When two people both have planetary level strength and durability (just an example) but one of them flies, can move and react at 187,000 mph and oh yeah, shoots lasers right out of they're ****ing face or control electromagnetism, storms wtf ever. Its kind of a no brainer who wins.

Now obviously, if he clearly outclassed them so much they can't hurt him is a different story.

This. I mean, there's a reason people don't draft him in BZs. Even Carver doesn't - I think to date I'm the only one who has willingly chosen WBH in a tourney.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Do people really lowball him though Carver? Even in a comics forum we have to be somewhat realistic.

When two people both have planetary level strength and durability (just an example) but one of them flies, can move and react at 187,000 mph and oh yeah, shoots lasers right out of they're ****ing face or control electromagnetism, storms wtf ever. Its kind of a no brainer who wins.

Now obviously, if he clearly outclassed them so much they can't hurt him is a different story.

I always see flight and reflexes as something different. Example, Surfer can easily fly billions of times the speed of light but I would still give Diana the edge overall reflexes. Gladiator can fly millions of times the speed of light and can basically do everything you've mentioned but I would give JLA Darkseid the edge over him, even though he doesn't have a single speed ft during that Era (hell, even now) that come close to what Gladiator have performed. Now we can easily say as soon as the bell ring, Darkseid is a statue to Gladiator and Gladiator punch him in the face with a hundred planetary level punches in less than a nano second but we both know this isn't true. I feel like this, if you're going to argue something, then be consistent. Yes, some beings might have showings of tagging faster beings or being too fast for someone to see, probably ONCE but if you're going to argue speed, it needs to be across the board. Is Surfer, Gladiator, Wonder Woman, Northstar, Quick Silver, Monica, to fast for Darkseid to react to which leads to them having a life time to kill him or can he slap them to sleep because on panel showings prove he can. I'm just using him as an example.

I can use World Forger as well. I can use Monarch, Orion, etc... lol, make an Orion vs Monica/Spectrum thread and let's see the results. There's a reason I'm using DC characters as well.

😂

Originally posted by carver9
I always see flight and reflexes as something different. Example, Surfer can easily fly billions of times the speed of light but I would still give Diana the edge overall reflexes. Gladiator can fly millions of times the speed of light and can basically do everything you've mentioned but I would give JLA Darkseid the edge over him, even though he doesn't have a single speed ft during that Era (hell, even now) that come close to what Gladiator have performed. Now we can easily say as soon as the bell ring, Darkseid is a statue to Gladiator and Gladiator punch him in the face with a hundred planetary level punches in less than a nano second but we both know this isn't true. I feel like this, if you're going to argue something, then be consistent. Yes, some beings might have showings of tagging faster beings or being too fast for someone to see, probably ONCE but if you're going to argue speed, it needs to be across the board. Is Surfer, Gladiator, Wonder Woman, Northstar, Quick Silver, Monica, to fast for Darkseid to react to which leads to them having a life time to kill him or can he slap them to sleep because on panel showings prove he can. I'm just using him as an example.

I can use World Forger as well. I can use Monarch, Orion, etc... lol, make an Orion vs Monica/Spectrum thread and let's see the results. There's a reason I'm using DC characters as well.

Jesus.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Jesus.

Hey, if you're ok with debating primarily off of powerset, please let me know.

Lmao we are STILL on this powerset argument....Carver, I am beginning to think you are actually legally retarded.

Wait, that was in response to what I wrote? Ok, I'm just saying if two people have 3 powers that are comparable, but one has 3 more powers than the other...

Originally posted by carver9
Hey, if you're ok with debating primarily off of powerset, please let me know.

No, because that's not what we do. That post was just horrendous.

I sometimes think that debating off of powerset is more realistic than what they do in comics. Thats mainly due to shitty writing.

I mean, I personally think someone like Philo would run circles around what these writers do with someone like Thor or Magnetos powerset.

I sometimes think that debating off of powerset is more realistic than what they do in comics. Thats mainly due to shitty writing.

I mean, I personally think someone like Philo would run circles around what these writers do with someone like Thor or Magnetos powerset.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I sometimes think that debating off of powerset is more realistic than what they do in comics. Thats mainly due to shitty writing.

I mean, I personally think someone like Philo would run circles around what these writers do with someone like Thor or Magnetos powerset.

You're not wrong.

Most of the people on this board have at least one or two characters that they know far better than some random writer that came onboard in the last month. And you will have people say "well you're not a writer, how can you know better than a writer?". This is the internet age. If I wanted to read Amazing Spider-Man 1-700, I can do that.

But will random writer 47 take the time to do that? I don't think so.

But if you hand someone that has done the reading, and knows the character that well, then they're obviously going to write a version of the character that's far more efficient/effective in a fight than other writers have.

We also have posters who actually know a bit about science etc. And conversely, comic writers who admit they make mistakes with science.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We also have posters who actually know a bit about science etc. And conversely, comic writers who admit they make mistakes with science.

Yup.

I mean, I know all my science from Star Trek, and I'd still be more convincing than some of those guys.

Is the writer even thinking about those things though when writing stories? Some probably do but its rare.

Originally posted by carver9
Is the writer even thinking about those things though when writing stories? Some probably do but its rare.

A lot of comics border on, if not completely become science fiction. Good science fiction, even if it's not the hard kind, has to, imo, have at least a basic scientific foundation. And it has to be consistent.

Using vague words that sound impressive isn't good enough when this is what they're being paid to do for a living.

This is an interesting thread. At what point does versatility outweigh raw power?

For example : If you were forming a team and needed a brick/tank, who would you choose : Gladiator or Hulk, Captain Marvel (Shazam) or Hulk, Wonderman or Hulk, Blue Marvel or Hulk, Hickman's Hyperion or Hulk? IMHO, Hulk would be any of these guys for the majority in a straight up fight but flight + their other powers makes it so they can do things he can never do.

problem with that is in a forum he is often limited to below wbh level. you think anyone you named can beat wbh? i certainly don't. in a no bfr environment i think hulk would throttle all the people you named... if ALL of his showings are considered valid, his powerset is actually pretty ridiculous. i mean hulk can adapt to breathing underwater, doesn't need to breathe in space (he doesn't really HAVE to hold his breath...immortal hulk has made it even more redundant), his healing factor is ridiculous, he's performed legit impossible feats --i mean LEGIT impossible feats like punching time, holding energy. his 'strength' is as much a deux ex machina as thor's hammer in some cases--and those feats were well BEFORE he was even wwh let alone wbh. his ability to adapt to things is often overlooked because it's not often used. but he's adapted to things about as often as thor has used the godblast, or lobo has used clones. yet it is NEVER a factor in his matches. it is a little puzzling. marvel itself seems to consider hulk one of if not its MOST powerful hero, but that doesn't translate at all to the forum.....

Originally posted by leonidas
problem with that is in a forum he is often limited to below wbh level. you think anyone you named can beat wbh? i certainly don't. in a no bfr environment i think hulk would throttle all the people you named... if ALL of his showings are considered valid, his powerset is actually pretty ridiculous. i mean hulk can adapt to breathing underwater, doesn't need to breathe in space (he doesn't really HAVE to hold his breath...immortal hulk has made it even more redundant), his healing factor is ridiculous, he's performed legit impossible feats --i mean LEGIT impossible feats like punching time, holding energy. his 'strength' is as much a deux ex machina as thor's hammer in some cases--and those feats were well BEFORE he was even wwh let alone wbh. his ability to adapt to things is often overlooked because it's not often used. but he's adapted to things about as often as thor has used the godblast, or lobo has used clones. yet it is NEVER a factor in his matches. it is a little puzzling. marvel itself seems to consider hulk one of if not its MOST powerful hero, but that doesn't translate at all to the forum.....

Well, what has he adapted to? And I don't mean just becoming stronger, ect, or doing weird things via strength. What feats are there to work with? I wouldn't say he's completely restricted to this in a topic but there's only so far you can go beyond what he's actually done before it's No Limits Fallacy.

They considered Doomsday growing bones over his ears as adapting, lol, but discredit Hulk adapting showings that far exceeds that and let's not pretend Doomsday adapted to physical Damage because this was never shown.

Originally posted by carver9
They considered Doomsday growing bones over his ears as adapting, lol, but discredit Hulk adapting showings that far exceeds that and let's not pretend Doomsday adapted to physical Damage because this was never shown.

Uh, yes it was. And Doomsday did far more advanced than physically adapting his durability.