Originally posted by Smurph
Does Batman have hypersonic speed?If not, there must be an alternative explanation. I don’t justify the feat, I just refer to literally everything else we know about Batman.
Nope. But he still did it via speed. And hypersonic I think would be too slow.
Originally posted by Smurph
Reread my posts. Accepting it and chalking it up to comics is exactly what I’m doing.
How are you accepting it and chalking it up to comics if you're making excuses that it wasn't a speed feat? Skill would mean he anticipated where it came from and moved before it fired. Except he moved after it did, reacting to it.
Another reason you're clearly not accepting it and chalking it up to comics is the fact you keep asking if Batman has Quicksilver speed. I accept him dodging light via speed or hurting/KOing Top-Tier bricks without saying he's actually at that level because it's comics. You going out of your way to say he isn't Quicksilver shows your hand.
Originally posted by Delta1938What hand?
Nope. But he still did it via speed. And hypersonic I think would be too slow.How are you accepting it and chalking it up to comics if you're making excuses that it wasn't a speed feat? Skill would mean he anticipated where it came from and moved before it fired. Except he moved after it did, reacting to it.
Another reason you're clearly not accepting it and chalking it up to comics is the fact you keep asking if Batman has Quicksilver speed. I accept him dodging light via speed or hurting/KOing Top-Tier bricks without saying he's actually at that level because it's comics. You going out of your way to say he isn't Quicksilver shows your hand.
Originally posted by Delta1938So your position is that Batman can move at lightspeed but also that he can’t… “because comics”.
Nope. But he still did it via speed. And hypersonic I think would be too slow.
My position is that Batman pulls off various things he shouldn’t be physically capable of because that’s how extreme skill works in a comic book
We’re not exactly aligned but the difference is splitting hairs. As far as I can tell, you think it’s absurd to say Bats didn’t move at lightspeed when he moved after the HV was fired. I think it’s absurd to say that Bats did move at lightspeed if your position is that Bats can’t move at lightspeed.
I called it a skill feat and I accept it because it’s a comic book. Hence, accepting it and chalking it up to comics. If you want to insist that Batman technically has a Quicksilver-level speed feat, be my guest.
Originally posted by Smurph
So your position is that Batman can move at lightspeed but also that he can’t… “because comics”.My position is that Batman pulls off various things he shouldn’t be physically capable of because that’s how extreme skill works in a comic book
We’re not exactly aligned but the difference is splitting hairs. As far as I can tell, you think it’s absurd to say Bats didn’t move at lightspeed when he moved after the HV was fired. I think it’s absurd to say that Bats did move at lightspeed if your position is that Bats can’t move at lightspeed.
I called it a skill feat and I accept it because it’s a comic book. Hence, accepting it and chalking it up to comics. If you want to insist that Batman technically has a Quicksilver-level speed feat, be my guest.
And yet we see that it was speed, not skill. These things happen because of comics. It's not splitting hairs if your argument contradicts what's on panel. Do you treat characters performing outside their tier the same way?
This is how I align it.
If, after the feat, Mr Terrific and Lex and Ray Palmer and all the big brains sat down with the video evidence, and interviewed Batman etc, what would the in universe reason be? Would they come to the conclusion that 'Batman is just that fast?'
Or would it be 'Batman is just that skilled'?
Originally posted by h1a8
Everyone in comics forget their speed and gets hit by slower beings. That is no proof that PG is faster.The proof that WW has better reflexes is
1. WW was able to dodge and block PG punches
2. PG wasn't able to do the same.
3. WW has feats beyond PG outside their battle (Zoom for instance).
Your 1) is meaningless, as WW didn't dodge/block all of PGs blows
2) is meaningless as the writer intent was clearly that WW did it due to skill
3) is meaningless due to your own statement. Zoom can get tagged by slower beings, as fast characters can forget their speed. Batman (lol) has tagged Zoom before.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is how I align it.If, after the feat, Mr Terrific and Lex and Ray Palmer and all the big brains sat down with the video evidence, and interviewed Batman etc, what would the in universe reason be? Would they come to the conclusion that 'Batman is just that fast?'
Or would it be 'Batman is just that skilled'?
After all, Batman literally owned a cosmic being by saying he is Batman.....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your 1) is meaningless, as WW didn't dodge/block all of PGs blows
2) is meaningless as the writer intent was clearly that WW did it due to skill
3) is meaningless due to your own statement. Zoom can get tagged by slower beings, as fast characters can forget their speed. Batman (lol) has tagged Zoom before.
If one character performs better than another in reflexes then they have better reflexes. So 1. is valid
2. is valid because if PG had better reflexes then she would have at least blocked or dodged a punch from WW. Your conclusion is unproven. You are begging the question.
3. Zoom was perceiving events in hyperspeed while WW tagged him. Therefore it counts as a speed feat. I'm not arguing that WW is faster than Zoom because she tagged Zoom.
Originally posted by h1a8
If one character performs better than another in reflexes then they have better reflexes. So 1. is valid2. is valid because if PG had better reflexes then she would have at least blocked or dodged a punch from WW. Your conclusion is unproven. You are begging the question.
3. Zoom was perceiving events in hyperspeed while WW tagged him. Therefore it counts as a speed feat. I'm not arguing that WW is faster than Zoom because she tagged Zoom.
She didn't block/dodge PGs blows though. She got hit. Please prove WW block/dodged PGs hits when PG hit her.
She did dodge a lasso toss from WW, then hit WW.
Prove he was perceiving it in hyperspeed?
Originally posted by h1a8
If one character performs better than another in reflexes then they have better reflexes. So 1. is valid2. is valid because if PG had better reflexes then she would have at least blocked or dodged a punch from WW. Your conclusion is unproven. You are begging the question.
3. Zoom was perceiving events in hyperspeed while WW tagged him. Therefore it counts as a speed feat. I'm not arguing that WW is faster than Zoom because she tagged Zoom.
Why is it you have argued writer's intent in the past and are completely and utterly ignoring it because it doesn't suit your argument? I'm tempted to report you.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She didn't block/dodge PGs blows though. She got hit. Please prove WW block/dodged PGs hits when PG hit her.She did dodge a lasso toss from WW, then hit WW.
Prove he was perceiving it in hyperspeed?
WW dodged a punch and blocked another. So your first sentence is false. It's in the comic.
True. But that's not a punch but a much slower attack (several times slower). WW got hit because she was open from the lasso shot.
Zoom had multiples of himself appearing simultaneously with almost no visual blur effects. That means he was moving in several different locations, while acting as multiple people, while moving near or above light speed. Therefore, he was perceiving events in almost frozen motion. And let's not forget how his powers work.
Originally posted by h1a8
WW dodged a punch and blocked another. So your first sentence is false. It's in the comic.True. But that's not a punch but a much slower attack (several times slower). WW got hit because she was open from the lasso shot.
Zoom had multiples of himself appearing simultaneously with almost no visual blur effects. That means he was moving in several different locations, while acting as multiple people, while moving near or above light speed. Therefore, he was perceiving events in almost frozen motion. And let's not forget how his powers work.
She also got hit in the comic.
If she's faster (as argued by you) and more skilled (as shown in the comic), then leaving herself open is impossible. She is sentient, she can see PGs fist (or even her entire body) moving towards her.
I don't forget how his powers work. Batman has tagged him. Liberty Belle has ,too.
You cannot simultaneously argue that slower characters tag faster characters in comics , whilst attempt to use examples of WW tagging fast characters as proof she's fast.
Originally posted by h1a8
What writer's intent am I ignoring? Do tell.
.....can you not read? This is at minimum the second time I'm quoting this because you never acknowledged.
Originally posted by Delta1938
If you had read the comic, you'd KNOW the writer intended the win to be a SKILL feat for Wonder Woman, not her being faster than Power Girl. All the talk of and emphasizing skill in Diana's narration. Well, first you'd have to read comics enough to understand them, THEN read the comic. The writer explicitly had WW say Power Girl was AT LEAST as strong and fast while PeeGee was blitzing her and knocking her around. None of your normal fail arguments against fights can change what the writer intended.Also, Karen has straight up caught WW's punch and has at least a couple other examples to support her being stronger.