Originally posted by Philosophíalulz
I don't know what you guys are talking about, Batman is clearly moving at relativistic speeds. It's right there on the page, impossible he moved due to skill. What skill allows you to sidestep lightspeed?It's why he dresses in black, so that the blueshift when he moves is not as noticeable.
He has tricked everybody into underestimating him.
the real kryptonian was Batman all along
Originally posted by Delta1938what?
The irony. So we established which it is.So you can't show where in the comic that it's even suggested to be a skill feat and point to outside the comic. Concessions accepted.
Batman’s established history forms the context for his comics. Obviously. It’s why you don’t need to see Uncle Ben get shot at the beginning of every Spider-Man comic to understand what’s going on.
Wilfully ignoring that to pretend Batman can move at lightspeed isn’t clever, just dumb - but, have at it? The point is moot either way. As DS said, it’s just an example of skill being used as a crutch within the narrative of the comic.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's like whack a mole. If you have five holes in front of you, and you clog four of the holes up with rocks, then there is only one place the mole can pop up. So you use your skill in rock throwing and tactical nous, to use the rocks. Just like Deathstroke did with Wally West.What perceptions did she use? Pray tell. The scan shows no perceptions being used, or are you making stuff up?
Except she didn't. The rocks went between the 4 Zooms. We see the rocks go all the way past Zoom and miss him. We see WW start to move to lasso him when there are still 4 Zooms.
Even if she aimed the rocks at the zooms then you still fail to realize that Zoom was having a metroman moment.
He was casually walking (while the world is frozen) in one spot and stop for a moment and waiting then walking to another spot and then waiting, etc so that he purposely appears to be 4 different people.
So either the rocks were frozen and caused NO distraction whatsoever or the rocks were moving at a speed comparable to his (which makes that another speed feat).
WW has to move fast as hell to be able to lasso Zoom when he is metro manning trying to purposely be 4 different people.
Originally posted by Smurph
what?Batman’s established history forms the context for his comics. Obviously. It’s why you don’t need to see Uncle Ben get shot at the beginning of every Spider-Man comic to understand what’s going on.
Wilfully ignoring that to pretend Batman can move at lightspeed isn’t clever, just dumb - but, have at it? The point is moot either way. As DS said, it’s just an example of skill being used as a crutch within the narrative of the comic.
The point is we can not deny what happened on panel.
But PR does make a point. Not all eyes beams move at the same speed. This is seen in films and animated sources. Maybe the writer was envisioning the HV to move the way it does on the cartoon. Maybe he didn't know 2 writers (out of many) intended for them to move at lightspeed.
You can't alter a definition. We know how speed is defined. Distance over time. If we can prove both then we can prove speed.
It makes more sense that the HV was traveling way slower than the speed of light than what we see on panel didn't happen.
Originally posted by h1a8
Except she didn't. The rocks went between the 4 Zooms. We see the rocks go all the way past Zoom and miss him. We see WW start to move to lasso him when there are still 4 Zooms.Even if she aimed the rocks at the zooms then you still fail to realize that Zoom was having a metroman moment.
He was casually walking (while the world is frozen) in one spot and stop for a moment and waiting then walking to another spot and then waiting, etc so that he purposely appears to be 4 different people.So either the rocks were frozen and caused NO distraction whatsoever or the rocks were moving at a speed comparable to his (which makes that another speed feat).
WW has to move fast as hell to be able to lasso Zoom when he is metro manning trying to purposely be 4 different people.
He is not metro Manning, however. Metro man did it through speed - Zoom does it through blinking in and out of the time stream (have you forgotten how his powers work)?
But good point that she was starting to lasso even when there were 4 Zooms. Was hoping you'd pick up on that.
It shows that she knew where he was going to be, even before he knew where he was going to be. She was using her skill to 'precog' and predict his next position. Good catch. Thanks.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He is not metro Manning, however. Metro man did it through speed - Zoom does it through blinking in and out of the time stream (have you forgotten how his powers work)?But good point that she was starting to lasso even when there were 4 Zooms. Was hoping you'd pick up on that.
It shows that she knew where he was going to be, even before he knew where he was going to be. She was using her skill to 'precog' and predict his next position. Good catch. Thanks.
Zoom slows time down to get the effect that he's fast.
Therefore metroman.
So like I said, the world is frozen in his eyes while he is slowly pretending to be 4 different people.
She does not have pre cog, therefore she perceived his motion in order to lasso him.
Originally posted by h1a8
Zoom slows time down to get the effect that he's fast.
Therefore metroman.
So like I said, the world is frozen in his eyes while he is slowly pretending to be 4 different people.She does not have pre cog, therefore she perceived his motion in order to lasso him.
I see you ignored my scans.
I am NOT saying she has precog, hence the use of quote marks. I am saying she is using her skill to predict where he will next be (akin to precog).
All she needs to do is force his hand. Like a chess master - she is forcing him into a position where she can capitalise on it. The comic makes this clear.
Originally posted by Smurph
what?Batman’s established history forms the context for his comics. Obviously. It’s why you don’t need to see Uncle Ben get shot at the beginning of every Spider-Man comic to understand what’s going on.
Wilfully ignoring that to pretend Batman can move at lightspeed isn’t clever, just dumb - but, have at it? The point is moot either way. As DS said, it’s just an example of skill being used as a crutch within the narrative of the comic.
So, you got nothing and won't admit it, or just don't understand it.
You said it was obvious the intent in the comic, and can't point to a single example IN the comic. If it's so obvious why do you have to point outside the comic? I was open to you read something the writer said that actually makes your argument relevant. You have not given me anything to support that nor even claimed to have. Yet you think your argument is actually viable?
You're doing one of the following. Missed what I wrote before, blatantly ignoring it, or failing to comprehend it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I see you ignored my scans.I am NOT saying she has precog, hence the use of quote marks. I am saying she is using her skill to predict where he will next be (akin to precog).
All she needs to do is force his hand. Like a chess master - she is forcing him into a position where she can capitalise on it. The comic makes this clear.
But that's not what the panel is showing unless her speed was close to his. You of all people should know that what is shown trumps what is said.
If she wasn't moving fast at all then she would have been a statue too while she was jumping at him with the lasso.
My point is that IT IS A SPEED FEAT.
In no way am I'm arguing she had to be faster than him to pull that feat off.
Originally posted by Delta1938
So, you got nothing and won't admit it, or just don't understand it.You said it was obvious the intent in the comic, and can't point to a single example IN the comic. If it's so obvious why do you have to point outside the comic? I was open to you read something the writer said that actually makes your argument relevant. You have not given me anything to support that nor even claimed to have. Yet you think your argument is actually viable?
You're doing one of the following. Missed what I wrote before, blatantly ignoring it, or failing to comprehend it.
Originally posted by Smurph
I think you get worked up because you talk around points that you can’t respond to.
Originally posted by h1a8
But that's not what the panel is showing unless her speed was close to his. You of all people should know that what is shown trumps what is said.If she wasn't moving fast at all then she would have been a statue too while she was jumping at him with the lasso.
My point is that IT IS A SPEED FEAT.
In no way am I'm arguing she had to be faster than him to pull that feat off.
But if she is not faster, what does 'get ahead of him' mean?
You were also saying she used her perceptions to track Zoom - which did she use, pray tell?
Originally posted by h1a8This is a way of rationalizing the math to reach the conclusion that Batman doesn’t move at 1/10, 1/5, or 9/10ths lightspeed. Because, as we all know, that is the only conclusion endorsed by the actual Batman comics.
The point is we can not deny what happened on panel.
But PR does make a point. Not all eyes beams move at the same speed. This is seen in films and animated sources. Maybe the writer was envisioning the HV to move the way it does on the cartoon. Maybe he didn't know 2 writers (out of many) intended for them to move at lightspeed.You can't alter a definition. We know how speed is defined. Distance over time. If we can prove both then we can prove speed.
It makes more sense that the HV was traveling way slower than the speed of light than what we see on panel didn't happen.
I don’t feel the need to tweak the variables in the scene until I can keep RL physics intact, but as I said, have at it. We know that highly skilled characters pull off feats like this as a function of their skill/training/comic book nature. That’s the bottom line.
Originally posted by h1a8
But that's not what the panel is showing unless her speed was close to his. You of all people should know that what is shown trumps what is said.If she wasn't moving fast at all then she would have been a statue too while she was jumping at him with the lasso.
My point is that IT IS A SPEED FEAT.
In no way am I'm arguing she had to be faster than him to pull that feat off.
Yet, when she tries to do the same to PG, PG.....is too fast (unlike Zoom) to be caught.
https://i.ibb.co/D7NkKqc/RCO012.jpg
So PG >Zoom, who in turn, as you say, is > WW.
Interesting.
Originally posted by h1a8
A laser blast yes but not bullets as Parker can move his body faster than bullets.
I quoted H1 but @cdtm
The bullets are still going to move the same speed I mean if flash gave them the speed force or something they might change but Quicksilver went all out shooting a firearm that firearm would either completely jam and no bullets would go out or the trigger and firing mechanism would only register what it could. Outside of amazo and a few other comic book machines, guns don't just get the attributes of the wielder
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yet, when she tries to do the same to PG, PG.....is too fast (unlike Zoom) to be caught.https://i.ibb.co/D7NkKqc/RCO012.jpg
So PG >Zoom, who in turn, as you say, is > WW.
Interesting.
Characters don't operate at the same levels in every scene.
That's why we have high and low showings.
You know this.
Otherwise we can use the craziest ABC logic to come to the most absurd conclusions.
Originally posted by Smurph
This is a way of rationalizing the math to reach the conclusion that Batman doesn’t move at 1/10, 1/5, or 9/10ths lightspeed. Because, as we all know, that is the only conclusion endorsed by the actual Batman comics.I don’t feel the need to tweak the variables in the scene until I can keep RL physics intact, but as I said, have at it. We know that highly skilled characters pull off feats like this as a function of their skill/training/comic book nature. That’s the bottom line.
Skill characters can pull off whatever. That's not the point. You can't argue something didn't happen on panel when we see it did.
You can argue stupid writing, variable fictional hv speeds due to artistic license, skill can make you that fast (within the suspension of disbelief), etc.
But if Batman lifts a mountain on panel then he lifted a mountain on panel.
Originally posted by h1a8We’re just going to circle back to me asking if Batman can therefore move at hypersonic speeds and you strawmanning by posing a different question instead of giving an answer.
Skill characters can pull off whatever. That's not the point. You can't argue something didn't happen on panel when we see it did.
You can argue stupid writing, variable fictional hv speeds due to artistic license, skill can make you that fast (within the suspension of disbelief), etc.But if Batman lifts a mountain on panel then he lifted a mountain on panel.
As I said pages ago, it’s your paradox to resolve. The only relevance to this discussion is that “skill characters can pull off whatever”, as you say.
Originally posted by Smurph
We’re just going to circle back to me asking if Batman can therefore move at hypersonic speeds and you strawmanning by posing a different question instead of giving an answer.As I said pages ago, it’s your paradox to resolve. The only relevance to this discussion is that “skill characters can pull off whatever”, as you say.
It's not a paradox if you chalk it up to comics.
