Order these guys by speed

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Wrong. I don't understand how you could misunderstand such a simple concept.

Perception speed is innate, and can be honed by training.

The fact that PG can land hits despite several centuries of training disadvantage means that her pure physical stats are noticeably higher than WW, but simply unrefined to the point that WW's quickness (economy of movement thru skill and muscle memory) overtakes it.

A jab is quicker than an overhand punch. An overhand punch however is far *faster* in movement rate than a jab. Get the difference?

If training was equal, the reflex difference would be at least as great as the difference between a very fast boxer (Roy Jones Jr) vs a somewhat above average speed boxer (James Toney).

If RJJ was only an amateur level fighter, he would have been smoked by Toney despite being the far better athlete.

Lol it doesn't matter where WW gets her speed from since the fact is that she is faster than PG in certan categories.

You are arguing since WW obtain speed through practice doesn't count as her being faster. That's a stupid argument.

It's not stupid, lol. It's literally spelled out in comics, with Superman and WW especially (see Batman's statement).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's not stupid, lol. It's literally spelled out in comics, with Superman and WW especially (see Batman's statement).

The Usain Bolt vs Bruce Lee argument?

The fatal flaw in Batman's logic, is they are both "human".

Apply that same logic between a cheetah and a ray of light.

That is not DS point though. Raw speed and trained speed are two different things in comics

P.S. I know cdtm you probably just posting random statements for attention, but Im so bored right now that I actually replying your posts

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
That is not DS point though. Raw speed and trained speed are two different things in comics

P.S. I know cdtm you probably just posting random statements for attention, but Im so bored right now that I actually replying your posts

Nah. Speed is speed.

When you play the knife between the fingers game, you can either do it fast or do it slow. Doesn't matter whether you train for it or have natural talent.

And even in comics, there physical limitations. If Batman trained for 1000 years, he shouldn't be able to become as fast as Spider-Man, let alone a flash.

You can get around that by using alien martial arts, or "chi", but if a MASSIVE gap existed between Superman and Wonder Woman's overall speed, trained skill shouldn't cover that gap.

Pure speed is pure speed.

Anticipating movements and reacting accordingly is a whole different thing.

If even a herald fight can follow the rules, then sure as hell cdtm****meintheass has nothing to say.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pure speed is pure speed.

Anticipating movements and reacting accordingly is a whole different thing.

If even a herald fight can follow the rules, then sure as hell cdtm****meintheass has nothing to say.

Nope. The Identity Crisis smackdown of Slade on Wally is bullshit. Slade is a literal statue at Flash speeds.

No statue is taking you by surprise even with anticipation.

Flash is a moron who gets literally bitten by talking gorillas in his own comic.

Shut up, Todd.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pure speed is pure speed.

Anticipating movements and reacting accordingly is a whole different thing.

There's some conflating going on between speed in general and hand to hand skill. But, as you said, speed is speed. They're complementary in terms of h2h but wholly different. If you can see and move faster than your opponent, then you are superior in speed to your opponent -- but he can use his particular skill to anticipate your movements and efficiently dodge and counter. Applied knowledge, which is predictive defense and efficient offense, is not the same as being superior in speed.

There's of course moments where the gap is so big, the move predictions don't matter because the opponent can't react to the attacks, and this is a good opportunity to repost this fight:

It just so happens that Power Girl was close enough to Wonder Woman in speed [i.e. Wonder Woman says that she is at least as fast, meaning >/= i.e. close to equal] that Diana's skill offset the speed difference.

I mean we have abhi's most loved scan:

https://i.imgur.com/3g1SL9E

Which has WW using her skill as a form of precog. Literally not speed

If I know sunlight is coming towards me (and yes, I know because I know it takes 8+minutes for light to travel to me) I can close my eyelids and block out a specific photon from reaching my eyes.

Doesn't mean I'm FTL

Originally posted by Philosophía
This.

There's some conflating going on between speed in general and hand to hand skill. But, as you said, speed is speed. They're complementary in terms of h2h but wholly different. If you can see and move faster than your opponent, then you are superior in speed to your opponent -- but he can use his particular skill to anticipate your movements and efficiently dodge and counter. Applied knowledge, which is predictive defense and efficient offense, is not the same as being superior in speed.

There's of course moments where the gap is so big, the move predictions don't matter because the opponent can't react to the attacks, and this is a good opportunity to repost this fight:

It just so happens that Power Girl was close enough to Wonder Woman in speed [i.e. Wonder Woman says that she is at least as fast, meaning >/= i.e. close to equal] that Diana's skill offset the speed difference.

Pretty much my point.

Except with the assumption of near equal speeds.

Wonder Woman is fast, but aren't Kryptonians much, much faster?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pure speed is pure speed.

Anticipating movements and reacting accordingly is a whole different thing.

Which is entirely different than precog via skill

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's not stupid, lol. It's literally spelled out in comics, with Superman and WW especially (see Batman's statement).

It is stupid. Wtf are you talking about. If WW is faster at some task then it doesn't matter where she got the speed from.
This thread is all about who's faster.

WW is not faster than PG in some things (like travel speed). But she is faster in perceptions and arm movement speed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pure speed is pure speed.

Anticipating movements and reacting accordingly is a whole different thing.

If even a herald fight can follow the rules, then sure as hell cdtm****meintheass has nothing to say.

Perception speed is a speed
Arm movement speed is a speed
Flight speed is a speed
Hopefully get the point

Ww got PG beat in arm movement speed and perception speed
PG got WW beat in flight speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean we have abhi's most loved scan:

https://i.imgur.com/3g1SL9E

Which has WW using her skill as a form of precog. Literally not speed

If I know sunlight is coming towards me (and yes, I know because I know it takes 8+minutes for light to travel to me) I can close my eyelids and block out a specific photon from reaching my eyes.

Doesn't mean I'm FTL

You would still need a great amount of speed to successfully pull the feat tho. If look at prime Roy Jones Jr, he would easily bob and weave out of the way of his opponents punches and set up a counter. Later in his career his speed declines and he gets tagged more often. Even suffering brutal kos. Same case with Anderson silva, Lyoto machida and many others. With all their experience and skill, some were getting caught with basic combos

Originally posted by h1a8
It is stupid. Wtf are you talking about. If WW is faster at some task then it doesn't matter where she got the speed from.
This thread is all about who's faster.

WW is not faster than PG in some things (like travel speed). But she is faster in perceptions and arm movement speed.

Because skill is used as a form of precog in comics. Deathstroke 'knows' where Flash will run to, based on his skill, so can tag him. Doesn't mean DS is faster or as fast as Flash. Wolverine knows where Speed Demon will be, so can tag him. Batman knows where etc etc.

This is common comic knowledge.

Originally posted by Booya_69
You would still need a great amount of speed to successfully pull the feat tho. If look at prime Roy Jones Jr, he would easily bob and weave out of the way of his opponents punches and set up a counter. Later in his career his speed declines and he gets tagged more often. Even suffering brutal kos. Same case with Anderson silva, Lyoto machida and many others. With all their experience and skill, some were getting caught with basic combos

So I am FTL? I know exactly when a specific photon (let's call it photon A) will hit my eye - so I close my eyelids to block it. Am I as fast as or faster than a photon?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because skill is used as a form of precog in comics. Deathstroke 'knows' where Flash will run to, based on his skill, so can tag him. Doesn't mean DS is faster or as fast as Flash. Wolverine knows where Speed Demon will be, so can tag him. Batman knows where etc etc.

This is common comic knowledge.

WW still has to move her limbs in time and AFTER the attack initiates. That's limb speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So I am FTL? I know exactly when a specific photon (let's call it photon A) will hit my eye - so I close my eyelids to block it. Am I as fast as or faster than a photon?

Also, being able to easily duck, weave and block someone's attack means that you are at least a peer to them in limb movement speed (since you can swing far faster than you block).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean we have abhi's most loved scan:

https://i.imgur.com/3g1SL9E

Which has WW using her skill as a form of precog. Literally not speed

If I know sunlight is coming towards me (and yes, I know because I know it takes 8+minutes for light to travel to me) I can close my eyelids and block out a specific photon from reaching my eyes.

Doesn't mean I'm FTL

So doing what any garden variety street can do. 😂

If Abhi pimps that as impressive, I'd counter argue this wouldn't work if a real speedster had the gun.

Basically, lets say Quicksilver is firing at Parker... He fires off the gun, Peter precogs and dodges, and Pietro fires off another five shots that track faster then Peter can move his body, while he's mid dodging the first shot.