Order these guys by speed

Originally posted by h1a8
No it isn't. WW has to see the attack unfolding through perception speed. She has no precog. She responds AFTER the attack initiates, not before.

WW still has to move her limbs in time and AFTER the attack initiates. That's limb speed.

That's the thing you are not understanding.

She does it BEFORE the attack initiates. She knows where the shooter is going to aim for, and has her gauntlets there accordingly. The scan spells this out.

This is skill. Same way Deathstroke knows what Flash would do - he has experience and skill in dealing with Wally. He's not faster than Wally, he just knows how Wally thinks.

In abhi's scan, WW isn't faster than the shooter, she just knows how they think.

With PG, she's not faster, she just knows how a fighter/brawler would fight, and can 'precog' it. Like a champion chess master. There are only so many ways a two armed two legged humanoid body can move, so WWs skill and fighting experience means she can effectively predict and counter what their next move would be.

Originally posted by h1a8
No, but your perception speed is faster than PG

Also, being able to easily duck, weave and block someone's attack means that you are at least a peer to them in limb movement speed (since you can swing far faster than you block).

Edit

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's the thing you are not understanding.

She does it BEFORE the attack initiates. She knows where the shooter is going to aim for, and has her gauntlets there accordingly. The scan spells this out.

This is skill. Same way Deathstroke knows what Flash would do - he has experience and skill in dealing with Wally. He's not faster than Wally, he just knows how Wally thinks.

In abhi's scan, WW isn't faster than the shooter, she just knows how they think.

With PG, she's not faster, she just knows how a fighter/brawler would fight, and can 'precog' it. Like a champion chess master. There are only so many ways a two armed two legged humanoid body can move, so WWs skill and fighting experience means she can effectively predict and counter what their next move would be.

So I am faster than a Kryptonian. Thanks.

Your logic is spot on, and likely how the writer saw it.

The problem has always been with Wally's perception not noticing the sword. From his view, Slade would be sitting there with the sword behind him as he ran into it

I mean, otherwise he'd be tripping over cars and unexpected pedestrians

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know exactly when a specific bullet(let's call it bullet A) will hit my eye - so I close my eyelids to block it. Am I as fast as or faster than a speeding bullet?

No.
But if you can block multiple bullets from close range and control the direction of the ricochet, like wondie has recently, then you most likely are.

Diana is standing squared, flat footed, no gaurd and is easily out manuavering pg.

https://youtu.be/jXqusSIDsvA

^Is this a precog feat or a speed feat?

Originally posted by Booya_69
No.
But if you can block multiple bullets from close range and control the direction of the ricochet, like wondie has recently, then you most likely are.

Diana is standing squared, flat footed, no gaurd and is easily out manuavering pg.

https://youtu.be/jXqusSIDsvA

^Is this a precog feat or a speed feat?

Well he has no precog,but it's both a skill and speed feat. To act like Silva can do what he does with no training and endless work in the gym is....a strange stance to take. Sure, he has speed - but he also puts work in sparring etc, until he pretty much knows what the other person can do. Likely watches videos of his opponents' fights so as to get a feel of their style.

And then after all that, as I said there are only so many ways the human body can move in a fight. Especially when you're then limited by the rules of the sport (no eye gouging etc), which further cuts down the possible moves your opponent can make.

https://m.imgur.com/G2uIeeS

Also, Spiderman precog isn't light speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well he has no precog,but it's both a skill and speed feat. To act like Silva can do what he does with no training and endless work in the gym is....a strange stance to take. Sure, he has speed - but he also puts work in sparring etc, until he pretty much knows what the other person can do. Likely watches videos of his opponents' fights so as to get a feel of their style.

Yeah, but that applies to both fighters, not just silva. Yes, skill plays a roll, but speed is the key factor if you're going to "matrix" someone imo.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's the thing you are not understanding.

She does it BEFORE the attack initiates. She knows where the shooter is going to aim for, and has her gauntlets there accordingly. The scan spells this out.

This is skill. Same way Deathstroke knows what Flash would do - he has experience and skill in dealing with Wally. He's not faster than Wally, he just knows how Wally thinks.

In abhi's scan, WW isn't faster than the shooter, she just knows how they think.

With PG, she's not faster, she just knows how a fighter/brawler would fight, and can 'precog' it. Like a champion chess master. There are only so many ways a two armed two legged humanoid body can move, so WWs skill and fighting experience means she can effectively predict and counter what their next move would be.

So I am faster than a Kryptonian. Thanks.

What are you talking about? I'm referring to h2h fighting where she ducks dodges Superman's and PG's attacks or lassos Zoom while he is moving at light speed (or near).

You are referring to her blocking bullets. One writer's opinion doesn't change what other writer's think. WW has blocked bullets and energy blasts WITHOUT knowing where the shooter is exactly aiming at.

If Darkseid looks at her with his eyes glowing (no pupil to know exactly where he is aiming at) and she holds her bracelet up for defense (before DS fires) then do you think DS would still shoot at her bracelets on purpose? WW doesn't know the exact moment DS is going to fire his OB. It can be in 2 seconds, 5 seconds, or even 10 seconds. She isn't going to just stand there with her bracelets up hoping for the best. WW has no move her bracelets AFTER the beam enters the air, otherwise DS would aim for something else instead of her bracelets.

WW has blocked bullets and beams blindfolded. She did not rely on sight in order to see where the shooter was aiming. She can sense the bullet in the air and respond to it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

So I am faster than a Kryptonian. Thanks.

Well since they don't exist then I guess you are. But otherwise, I don't get how you come to that conclusion.

Again, if you can EASILY block or dodge someone's attacks then you are automatically at least a peer to them in arm movement speed since you can throw a punch far faster (velocity wise) than you can block.

Originally posted by Booya_69
Yeah, but that applies to both fighters, not just silva. Yes, skill plays a roll, but speed is the key factor if you're going to "matrix" someone imo.

Originally posted by h1a8
Well since they don't exist then I guess you are. But otherwise, I don't get how you come to that conclusion.

Again, if you can EASILY block or dodge someone's attacks then you are automatically at least a peer to them in arm movement speed since you can throw a punch far faster (velocity wise) than you can block.

From your post saying yes, when I asked if I was. I don't have to actually see the photon being fired off the surface of the sun, nor do I need to track it. I could be blindfolded, then take it off - as long as I close my eyes 8.5 minutes from now (or however long it takes for light to reach earth) I know I wil block that photon.

Without needing to be lightspeed.

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? I'm referring to h2h fighting where she ducks dodges Superman's and PG's attacks or lassos Zoom while he is moving at light speed (or near).

You are referring to her blocking bullets. One writer's opinion doesn't change what other writer's think. WW has blocked bullets and energy blasts WITHOUT knowing where the shooter is exactly aiming at.

If Darkseid looks at her with his eyes glowing (no pupil to know exactly where he is aiming at) and she holds her bracelet up for defense (before DS fires) then do you think DS would still shoot at her bracelets on purpose? WW doesn't know the exact moment DS is going to fire his OB. It can be in 2 seconds, 5 seconds, or even 10 seconds. She isn't going to just stand there with her bracelets up hoping for the best. WW has no move her bracelets AFTER the beam enters the air, otherwise DS would aim for something else instead of her bracelets.

WW has blocked bullets and beams blindfolded. She did not rely on sight in order to see where the shooter was aiming. She can sense the bullet in the air and respond to it.

She still does it with skill, even with DS and when blindfolded. With seeing it, she knows where the bullets are going/where DS will target, based on her fighting experience and skill.

Same way Batman does it

Originally posted by cdtm
So doing what any garden variety street can do. 😂

If Abhi pimps that as impressive, I'd counter argue this wouldn't work if a real speedster had the gun.

Basically, lets say Quicksilver is firing at Parker... He fires off the gun, Peter precogs and dodges, and Pietro fires off another five shots that track faster then Peter can move his body, while he's mid dodging the first shot.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Never said it wasn't. But, as I have been saying all this time, skill plays a part and it's not pure speed.

From your post saying yes, when I asked if I was. I don't have to actually see the photon being fired off the surface of the sun, nor do I need to track it. I could be blindfolded, then take it off - as long as I close my eyes 8.5 minutes from now (or however long it takes for light to reach earth) I know I wil block that photon.

Without needing to be lightspeed.

She still does it with skill, even with DS and when blindfolded. With seeing it, she knows where the bullets are going/where DS will target, based on her fighting experience and skill.

Same way Batman does it

I just proved that she didn't know where DS would target.
All you did was restate the faulty argument.

I'll repeat.
DS has no pupils, just glowing eyes. She doesn't know where and exactly when his OB will fire. If she guesses and puts her bracelets up 2 seconds before he fires then he is going to see this and aim where the bracelets aren't.

Lol WW doesn't close her eyes right after the attack is initiated. She has fought blind on multiple occasions. Therefore she can't see where the attacker is aiming. She has to respond AFTER the attack enters the air. WW doesn't have precog. This is a fact.

The beast from kung-fu hustle uses skill to catch a bullet. His hand still moved faster than a bullet though. So skill as the reason someone is fast doesn't disqualify the fact that they are fast.

Originally posted by h1a8
I just proved that she didn't know where DS would target.
All you did was restate the faulty argument.

I'll repeat.
DS has no pupils, just glowing eyes. She doesn't know where and exactly when his OB will fire. If she guesses and puts her bracelets up 2 seconds before he fires then he is going to see this and aim where the bracelets aren't.

Lol WW doesn't close her eyes right after the attack is initiated. She has fought blind on multiple occasions. Therefore she can't see where the attacker is aiming. She has to respond AFTER the attack enters the air. WW doesn't have precog. This is a fact.

The beast from kung-fu hustle uses skill to catch a bullet. His hand still moved faster than a bullet though. So skill as the reason someone is fast doesn't disqualify the fact that they are fast.

Prove she didn't know where he was going to fire, though. All you did is make unsupported statements.

Unless you can prove she didn't know where he was going to target.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prove she didn't know where he was going to fire, though. All you did is make unsupported statements.

Unless you can prove she didn't know where he was going to target.

She didn't know because it is a special attribute (to know where DS is aiming at) and the comic doesn't give any evidence towards her having that special attribute.

Yes, indeed, a special attribute.

Her skill.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, indeed, a special attribute.

Her skill.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have skill but don't have that attribute

You don't have WWs level of skill. I mean, I have speed but I'm not Flash. What a nonsense argument, lol.

I have some degree of strength but I can't lift a ship like Superman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Never said it wasn't. But, as I have been saying all this time, skill plays a part and it's not pure speed.

From your post saying yes, when I asked if I was. I don't have to actually see the photon being fired off the surface of the sun, nor do I need to track it. I could be blindfolded, then take it off - as long as I close my eyes 8.5 minutes from now (or however long it takes for light to reach earth) I know I wil block that photon.

Without needing to be lightspeed.

She still does it with skill, even with DS and when blindfolded. With seeing it, she knows where the bullets are going/where DS will target, based on her fighting experience and skill.

Same way Batman does it

But again you still need the limb speed to pull off the feat. WW blocks bullets from multiple gunmen all shooting simultaneously all the time. you're saying that in between each bullet that gets blocked, her limbs and perception are moving slower than the in-coming bullets and skill is compensating the rest? It's just not feasible.

She's even blocked a bullet coming from behind her aimed for the person next to her and they didn't even know they were being fired at.

Originally posted by Booya_69
But again you still need the limb speed to pull off the feat. WW blocks bullets from multiple gunmen all shooting simultaneously all the time. you're saying that in between each bullet that gets blocked, her limbs and perception are moving slower than the in-coming bullets and skill is compensating the rest? It's just not feasible.

She's even blocked a bullet coming from behind her aimed for the person next to her and they didn't even know they were being fired at.

Same way a chess master can play 25 simultaneous games of chess, sometimes blindfolded.

Not saying there's no speed and it's pure skill, btw. But neither am I saying it's pure speed and no skill.

double post