Marvel characters who could defeat Dr. Manhattan?

Originally posted by Juntai
That was something that was added in the Final Crisis "New Edition" trade that had all the added extra panels not found in the original issues. One it snuck in there was Nix Uotan telling Rox Ogama/Mandrakk that he killed his mother, which was actually Dax Novu in Superman Beyond.

So instead of being different versions of the character where one takes up the mantle after the other is defeated as he gives into being a vampiric monitor, many new readers suddenly believe Mandrakk being some kind of bodyhopping Brainiac type of entity.

The problem arises in Unexpected 7, where we see Dax Novu/Mandrakk again, he mentions being tossed down by Superman and landing in the Dark Multiverse at the feet of Barbatos, which coincides albeit a retcon of being erased in the Overvoid, with the original idea that it's two different people.

The less it's talked about The Unxpected the better -- that incarnation of Mandrakk for example was sent by the Monitors to watch over the flaw, instead of the Overvoid, lol:

I chalk it up to a bad fever dream version from the Dark Multiverse, where these types of cosmic beings are in "what if" scenarios.

My take is kind of like this on the whole incarnations and single/multiple persons thing: I believe Mandrakk himself -- his role is that of the book/story ender.

Rather than see it as a retcon, I believe Dax Novu [original body sort to speak] truly was erased at the end of Superman Beyond:

But the concept/essence of Mandrakk/Dax Novu [inseparable] will forever exists as long as story exists, through minions or reincarnations:

It's why when Ultraman reads the book of infinite pages, containing all the stories, he sees Mandrakk at the end of all stories:

---

And it's why Superman engraved "To be continued" -- to say stories will never reach the end. Mandrakk will never be allowed to win because the narration will never end, and he'll make sure of it.

I wouldn't be surprised if things get bad in the next event to see Mandrakk pop up again, only for it to not be the end... again.

----

Anyway, this is waaaaaay off topic.

Manhattan wins against virutally anybody not TOAA, imo.

manhattan has virtually no noteworthy feats, i can't see him surpassing molecule man or beyonder, let alone multi-eternity

Originally posted by MrMind
all the statements of him really

for example, like this

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/12/125547/3344481-beyonder%27s%20omnipotence.jpg

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
the statements made about manhattan put him well above beyonder.

like?

like being above mxy.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
like being above mxy.

that's it though, he doesn't have feats to back it up, post retcon beyonder alone has trans-multiversal feat

mxy vs beyonder is a hot debate for more than a decade now, and both have feats to suggest they can one up each other

you're moving goalposts.

you first said that beyonder's feats put him above manhattan. i then asked what feats you were talking about. you then said it came down to statements. i said that even beyonder's statements don't put him above manhattan. now you're back to arguing feats......so which is it lol?

feat wise beyonder doesn't have anything on par with manhattan casually wiping out and remaking the multiverse, or mxy himself being specifically unable to undo manhattan's initial tinkering to the multiverse,

statement wise beyonder doesnt have anything on par with manhattan being placed above mxy.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
you're moving goalposts.

you first said that beyonder's feats put him above manhattan. i then asked what feats you were talking about. you then said it came down to statements. i said that even beyonder's statements don't put him above manhattan. now you're back to arguing feats......so which is it lol?

feat wise beyonder doesn't have anything on par with manhattan casually wiping out and remaking the multiverse, or mxy himself being specifically unable to undo manhattan's initial tinkering to the multiverse,

statement wise beyonder doesnt have anything on par with manhattan being placed above mxy.

statements are feats

manhattan never wiped out and remade the multiverse

beyonder view the entirety of marvel as droplet of water in the ocean, and retroactively marvel has always been an omniverse/multiverse

awesome. so if statements = feats, then manhattan is definitely above beyonder because statements place him above mxy. 🙂

yes he did. the multiverse was destroyed and remade from the beginning.

how beyonder views the marvel multiverse doesnt really matter in a fight.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
awesome. so if statements = feats, then manhattan is definitely above beyonder because statements place him above mxy. 🙂

yes he did. the multiverse was destroyed and remade from the beginning.

how beyonder views the marvel multiverse doesnt really matter in a fight.

you have to prove mxy is above beyonder first, show scan of multiverse destroyed and remade, stop making statements without evidence to back it up

it totally does matter, scale is everything in this level of fight

Not that it's overly pertinent to this thread... But if you want to talk high-end stuff, then Beyonder really doesn't want to get into a feat war with Mxy.

Nuff said.

Right but deadpool was referring to Manhattan remaking the multiverse which he never did

Manhattan featless as he may be was touted as being peerless by those who had feats. So everyone pretty much rolls with that which is a extremely slippery slope since we'd never use that in an other vs battle

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Manhattan featless as he may be was touted as being peerless by those who had feats. So everyone pretty much rolls with that which is a extremely slippery slope since we'd never use that in an other vs battle

The reason I am personally willing to take the statements made about Manhattan at face value is because we were never really given a reason to question them.

-First and foremost, Manhattan was described as a being of inaction -- he wasn't running around preforming grandiose displays of cosmic power for the lulz, because he simply did not want to. Everything he did during Doomsday Clock amounted to little more than a passive experiment... He wanted to see why the whole of DC creation revolved around Superman, so he manipulated timespace in such a way as to produce an outcome where Superman either destroyed him, or he destroyed everything. Manhattan became so passive/complacent in his observatory role, in fact, that he wasn't even going to defend himself against an attack from Supes that might potentially kill him -- he was just going to let it happen. Moreover, Manhattan failed to initially perceive a third and final scenario: one where he effectively rebooted continuity. Granted the recent issue of Incarnate has retconned things a bit: we now know that Manhattan was at least partially corrupted by the GEB, and sent in to weaken the DCU... But that's neither here nor there.

-Secondly, you have Mxy explicitly stating that Manhattan was more powerful than himself... To the point where he couldn't really do shit to prevent Manhattan's alterations to time/reality.

-Next you also have Luthor(who certainly has in depth knowledge of guys like Mxy) further reiterating that Manhattan was the most powerful being he'd ever encountered up to that point.

-Then you have the Connective energy that Manhattan embodied being likened to the equal/opposite of the Crisis energy that Perpetua embodied.

-Then you have Manhattan's power being used to seemingly stalemate Perpetua and whatnot.

So yeah, if we had ever been given a legitimate reason to doubt Manhattan's "> Mxy" status, I'd be on board with overlooking his accolades or w/e... But all things considered, it really does seem like that's just the level he was intended to be operating at, imo.

Agreed. As long as Manhattan is the exception not the norm.

I'd say he should be the norm.

If we are given statements for a character, and, crucially, have not been given reason to doubt said statements.....why not accept them?

If Wally is said to be the Fastest Man Alive....and we have not been given reason to doubt said statement....why not?

it needs to be looked at on a casebycase basis IMO. like a bunch of characters in marvel and dc have been proclaimed as "the strongest" only for that to be proven wrong by the end of the storyarc. so i say give a new character boasting that kind of power enough time to see if it actually might be true. don't just cling to an empty statement or two right off the bat.

and also keep in mind that a characters status is ALWAYS subject to change. like next month it could be revealed that geb is actually just mxy disguising himself because he was bored. a characters level is always just one issue away from being totally altered by the writers..

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'd say he should be the norm.

If we are given statements for a character, and, crucially, have not been given reason to doubt said statements.....why not accept them?

If Wally is said to be the Fastest Man Alive....and we have not been given reason to doubt said statement....why not?

Hence the slippery slope

Originally posted by Galan007
-Secondly, you have Mxy explicitly stating that Manhattan was more powerful than himself... To the point where he couldn't really do shit to prevent Manhattan's alterations to time/reality.

Originally posted by LordGod
That's what I didn't understand. Everything Manhattan did to the timeline, Mxy could also do with ease. So why would he act like stuff like that was beyond him? 😕

Certainly Mxy could(and has) affected reality on that kind of scale -- but if indeed we believe that Manhattan > Mxy(and again, I DO), then perhaps Mxy just lacked the power to undo any changes made by a more powerful being... Similarly to how Rip Hunter(who typically has access to ANY point in all of Hypertime) was unable to access the points in time centered around Batman's death, because they were effectively locked away by Darkseid's Omega energy:
https://ibb.co/Pw9sgXq

Another analogy: if Thanos /w/ THOTI subtly manipulated reality and said "this is how I want it to be for all time", it's doubtful that someone like Franklin Richards would then be able to come in and undo said manipulations, as he simply isn't powerful enough to override the will/power of a being that is higher on the cosmological totem pole.

...Or perhaps Mxy could have undone Manhattan's alterations, but didn't want to risk incurring his wrath(Mxy did seem quite fearful of him, after all.) /shrug