Wally West vs Cosmic Thor

That's a whole lot of chatter to avoid reading simple English:

But yes, let's cite to dictionary.com instead.

Originally posted by ODG
That's a whole lot of chatter to avoid reading simple English:

Yes, it indeed requires simple english.....combining with some simple reading compreshension 🙂

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

First of all, "combine" this word can be used to refer you do two things simultanesouly

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/combine

Edit:

Originally posted by ODG

But yes, let's cite to dictionary.com instead.

So what is your reasoning for this?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

In summary:

1) The timestop is a property of Speed Force Formula
2) TBWL was timestopped
3) TBWL was pushing against Speed Force Formula
4) Speed Force Formula is a different way to tap into the Speed Force
5) Flashes burning the Speed Force out when they running/using their abilities
6) Jay still has his speed, so it's not like his speedforce was used to merge with SFF to timestop TBWL, and he attributed his exhaustion to the strain on the Speed Force, not just his abilities

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yes, it indeed requires simple english.....combining with some simple reading compreshension 🙂

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So what is your reasoning for this?

Or, let me ask you a simple question, what do you think is the thing that stopped time? And was TBWL timestopped or not?

The thing that stopped time was Wally using Johnny Quick's Speed Force Formula combined with the Flash family's speedforce. Yes, for several minutes (relative to the Flash family anyway).

Originally posted by ODG
I could disprove your interpretation without torturing the English language. But given your insistent equivocation over a simple panel, I don't see any point to it. I'd just be wasting electrons.

Then disprove it, I mean, you realize there exist different interpretations about that sentence that are different from yours, right? 🙂

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I interpreted that to be Wally referring to their running. Like a royal we.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosism

Originally posted by ODG
Reasoning for what?

The thing that stopped time was Wally using Johnny Quick's Speed Force Formula combined with the Flash family's speedforce. Yes, for several minutes (relative to the Flash family anyway).

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Then disprove it, I mean, you realize there exist different interpretations about that sentence that are different from yours, right? 🙂

Huh? Wally made the timestop statement right before the scan you posted, and he specifically attributed it to the Speed Force Formula, not it combined with Flash family's speedforce.
https://i.ibb.co/TtQ1rVN/6.jpg

... except when he did specifically attribute it to the Speed Force Formula combined with Flash family's speedforce:

Also, personal request from me, please don't stretch the page.

Originally posted by ODG
That's a whole lot of chatter to avoid reading simple English:

But yes, let's cite to dictionary.com instead.

The simple English in this panel says that combination of Flash family powers and the formula puts a strain on the speed force.

It does not say that the combination of Flash family powers and the formula achieved the time stop.

Those are two separate ideas.

Originally posted by ODG
Can you honestly think of no reason why he might need to do so? Without sarcasm, just take a moment and ponder whether Wally might need to do so.

... except when he did specifically attribute it to the Speed Force Formula combined with Flash family's speedforce:

Also, personal request from me, please don't stretch the page.

Wally stated he used Speed Force Formula to stop time once before, so if you can prove the last time he was combining other Flash family's speedforce to do so....wait, you actually admitted he doesn't need other Flash family's members to do so

Originally posted by ODG
I never said he needed other Flash family members to do it. After all, the only other time he did it, he didn't need them.

Originally posted by Smurph
I haven't read the comic, so maybe I'm pulling an h1 here, but it's hard to resist a grammar nerd debate.

The simple English in this panel says that combination of Flash family powers and the formula puts a strain on the speed force.

It does not say that the combination of Flash family powers and the formula achieved the time stop.

Those are two separate ideas.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
You seem hanging on your interpretation about the word "combine" without recognizing other interpretations concerning this word

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Wally stated he used Speed Force Formula to stop time once before, so if you can prove the last time he was combining other Flash family's speedforce to do so....wait, you actually admitted he doesn't need other Flash family's members to do so

So why suddenly Wally needed other Flash family's now?

Can you guys think of a reason why Wally might need to combine the Flash family's speedforce with the Speed Force Formula this time as opposed to the first time?

Originally posted by ODG
I don't see how I'm the one hanging from a cliff here.

Originally posted by ODG
I really do not want to equivocate over English. But would you consider the connotation of the term "combining" intimates a merging or a mixing?

Like hanging on a very specific meaning of a word, and ignoring other interpretations?

For examples

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I interpreted that to be Wally referring to their running. Like a royal we.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosism

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
No, read it carefully, it states combining the formula and their abilities puts an extra effort to the Speed Force, accelerates its burning.

I.E, Speed Force now needed to provide both of Flash family's powers and the Speed Force Formula power, thus it being burnt out faster

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

First of all, "combine" this word can be used to refer you do two things simultanesouly

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/combine

Originally posted by Smurph
I haven't read the comic, so maybe I'm pulling an h1 here, but it's hard to resist a grammar nerd debate.

The simple English in this panel says that combination of Flash family powers and the formula puts a strain on the speed force.

It does not say that the combination of Flash family powers and the formula achieved the time stop.

Those are two separate ideas.

And for this part

Originally posted by ODG

Can you guys think of a reason why Wally might need to combine the Flash family's speedforce with the Speed Force Formula this time as opposed to the first time?

Originally posted by ODG
I really do not want to equivocate over English. But would you consider the connotation of the term "combining" intimates a merging or a mixing? I suppose this is a rhetorical question because seriously, I find such conversations tortuous. I don't see how I'm the one hanging from a cliff here. Ah-ha! Did the light bulb go off?

Can you guys think of a reason why Wally might need to combine the Flash family's speedforce with the Speed Force Formula this time as opposed to the first time?

My two cents are that you're reading intent into the word "combine" as if Wally intentionally added powers together, but another way to read the scene is that Wally used a technique (the formula) that is particularly taxing on the speed force, in the context of a fight where the speed force was already being taxed by the whole Flash fam.

Originally posted by Smurph
I have no horse in this race because idgaf about either character or the thread, really.

My two cents are that you're reading intent into the word "combine" as if Wally intentionally added powers together, but another way to read the scene is that Wally used a technique (the formula) that is particularly taxing on the speed force, in the context of a fight where the speed force was already being taxed by the whole Flash fam.

Already posted it one page ago. And I even put some time to elaborate why I think the latter interpretation is likely right.

But clearly, nobody reads my post 🙁

Originally posted by Smurph
I have no horse in this race because idgaf about either character or the thread, really.

Originally posted by Smurph
My two cents are that you're reading intent into the word "combine" as if Wally intentionally added powers together, but another way to read the scene is that Wally used a technique (the formula) that is particularly taxing on the speed force, in the context of a fight where the speed force was already being taxed by the whole Flash fam.

If Wally had said this or this, does that bring you closer or further away from the interpretation I am suggesting?

Because, I am suggesting that "combining" as it was used here suggested an affirmative action. Not a passive state.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Like hanging on a very spefic meaning of a word, and ignoring other interpretations?

For examples

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
And for this part

So do you admit timestop is an attribute of Speed Force Formula, not an attribute that results from combining Speed Force Formula and Flash family's Speedforce?

Before proceeding to your straw-man, please just pause and ponder it for a moment. Can you think of any reason why Wally might need to combine the Flash family's speedforce with the Speed Force Formula this time as opposed to the first time?

Originally posted by ODG
I didn't come here to debate the connotation of the word, combine. Tortured propositions over the English language just take the conversation further from the simple on-panel presentation of the comic. So forgive me if I continue to dismiss the notion that Wally couldn't possibly be referring to him combining Johnny Quick's Speed Force Formula w/ the Flash family's speedforce.

Wally used the Speed Force Formula, which he used to stop time once before
https://i.ibb.co/TtQ1rVN/6.jpg

He didn't say he combined it with other Flash family members' Speedforce to stop time, did he?

Originally posted by ODG
I thought for a second there, you had it. The light bulb didn't go off?

Before proceeding to your straw-man, please just pause and ponder it for a moment. Can you think of any reason why Wally might need to combine the Flash family's speedforce with the Speed Force Formula this time as opposed to the first time?

No one is saying that Wally didn't combine/merge/mix the two.

What is being argued is that the mixing resulted in an added strain on the SF, NOT that it resulted in a timestop.

A few pages prior, Wally explains that the SF is strained, with every superfast step the Flash family takes.

He uses the Formula.

Time stop ensues.

Wallace experiences a drain. Why?

The formula usage PLUS the Flash family's running, combined, is damaging the SF further, which is why Wallace feels a drain/like a drain.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Ok, if you want simple on panel, straight forward statement, you have this

Wally used the Speed Force Formula, which he used to stop time once before
https://i.ibb.co/TtQ1rVN/6.jpg

He didn't say he combined it with other Flash family members' Speedforce to stop time, did he?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
What I'm strawmaning? I explained to you one page ago your interpretation isn't the only way to look at that sentence. You just keep saying I avoid reading simple English, which proved to be not so simple as you think at all?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No one is saying that Wally didn't combine/merge/mix the two.

Both qwerty and Smurph said he combined the two though.

Baby Jesus wept. I hate these sort of discussions...

Breaking down the use of the English language invariably leads to the discussion itself breaking down.