Count Nefaria Vs Hercules, speed equalised, no heat vision

Originally posted by Stoic
Typos caused the change. I still believe that it’s a lack wit analogy on your part. It isn’t as if Count Nefaria turns his powers on and off. It’s like assuming that the reason that Thor hurt him was because he turned his invulnerability off. With all powers Nefaria is listed to have a combat ability score of 3. If we removed speed to the equation, and laser vision, his combat ability would drop even further. That is literally what is being discussed here.

I do not believe that Hercules would defeat Nefaria with full powers, but even at that it wouldn’t be a complete sweep. Herc would have to get lucky to win in that case, but this is not the same thing. Nefaria without any powers literally has a combat rating of between 1-2.

Show me where in the history of humanity has a neophyte level fighter defeated a combat instructor, being mindful that Hercules has more combat skills than wrestling alone.

LMAO how does typos cause you to write something almost completely different? I wouldn't be making any deal about you editing if it was just correcting typos.

All your arguments are meaningless. They actually did something to show him using speed when he did. Your strawman requires ignoring it's comics. Just like in other topics, your argument that X is fast because they fought Y who has speed would only be valid if they make show speed was used, not you assuming it was used. You constantly repeating whatever skill stat you found doesn't matter because you're crutching on the circular argument of "he had speed so that means he used it."

Originally posted by Stoic
When he catches the hammer is a speed feat. I thought we covered that?

You're serious, aren't you?

Originally posted by Delta1938
LMAO how does typos cause you to write something almost completely different? I wouldn't be making any deal about you editing if it was just correcting typos.

All your arguments are meaningless. They actually did something to show him using speed when he did. Your strawman requires ignoring it's comics. Just like in other topics, your argument that X is fast because they fought Y who has speed would only be valid if they make show speed was used, not you assuming it was used. You constantly repeating whatever skill stat you found doesn't matter because you're crutching on the circular argument of "he had speed so that means he used it."

You're serious, aren't you?

Hey, my entire posting from 2020-now was a result of typos.

Originally posted by cdtm
Hey, my entire posting from 2020-now was a result of typos.

So if it took you two plus years to type without frequent typos, you're saying it'll take 7 plus years for you to be a good enough poster to do the BZ? vin

Originally posted by Delta1938
So if it took you two plus years to type without frequent typos, you're saying it'll take 7 plus years for you to be a good enough poster to do the BZ? vin

I think maybe it's a green light.

Basically, the truth is I discovered 99 proof nips. And had seven in one sitting.

So that kind of had a bad effect on me. Nips are like M&M's, hard to only have one.

Originally posted by cdtm
I think maybe it's a green light.

Basically, the truth is I discovered 99 proof nips. And had seven in one sitting.

So that kind of had a bad effect on me. Nips are like M&M's, hard to only have one.

Non-Invasive Prenatal Screening? Congratulations!! Now this makes sense why you're mad at all those for snubbing you. You're not sure who the father is.

Originally posted by Stoic
His combat rating is listed as a 3, without speed it would drop to a 2, and without long range capabilities it would drop even more.

That is a 3 with all powers.

Count Nefaria gloated about how his powers made him superior. Do we now switch it up to pretend as if he wasn’t actively using speed? Of course not.

Fact: Characters with speed don't always use it in comics.
There are hundreds of examples (like Spider-Man 100% of the time dodging machine gun fire and yet get hit with slow moving punch).
Examples of Flash as well.

So it is faulty to assume that Nefaria was using speed at the times he wasn't explicitly shown to.

If Nefaria would have used speed all the time then Thor and anyone else wouldn't have been able to touch him. He would have seen everyone frozen or in super slow motion. But this wasn't the case due to my beginning statement above.

Originally posted by Stoic
His combat rating is listed as a 3, without speed it would drop to a 2, and without long range capabilities it would drop even more.

That is a 3 with all powers.

Count Nefaria gloated about how his powers made him superior. Do we now switch it up to pretend as if he wasn’t actively using speed? Of course not.

That's not how handbook stats work.

Isn't it through? Isn't it?

Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't it through? Isn't it?

Unless they changed how the ratings worked, fighting skill was based on WHAT you knew instead of how good of a fighting you were. Like a 5 would be versed in only one martial arts style, a 6 in multiple styles, but a 5 rating fighter could still be better than a 6.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Unless they changed how the ratings worked, fighting skill was based on WHAT you knew instead of how good of a fighting you were. Like a 5 would be versed in only one martial arts style, a 6 in multiple styles, but a 5 rating fighter could still be better than a 6.

What is a 3 then?

Can a 1 beat a 9?

Originally posted by cdtm
Isn't it through? Isn't it?

It's not.

Super-powers never matter regarging that stat.

Hence why Galactus and all other cosmic types, from heralds to abstracts, tend to have abysmal Fighting Skill ratings... even if their track record is near flawless.

Originally posted by cdtm
What is a 3 then?

Can a 1 beat a 9?

At least the one I'm familiar with only went up to 7.

Ironically 1's description was actually like what Stoic keeps arguing Nefaria is, someone below average. So unless he's using one that has different ranking descriptions, Stoic's citing of the Handbooks actually puts Nefaria as a better fighter than he's arguing.

I can't remember the details how 3 was described though. I am trying to find the descriptions whether from Marvel's site or not.

Found it. It's not from Marvel's site, but it looks mostly like what I remember, so make whatever you want out of it. But even if correct, secondary anyway.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Grid

Originally posted by Delta1938
Found it. It's not from Marvel's site, but it looks mostly like what I remember, so make whatever you want out of it. But even if correct, secondary anyway.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Grid

Actually. I think this is from The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Book of the Dead

https://ibb.co/41F58y3

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Actually. I think this is from The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Book of the Dead

https://ibb.co/41F58y3

Possibly where it first started. They had the same on trading cards too. Which is one of the examples that changed from Stoic arguing Hercules is stronger than Thor.

No, whatever point Stoic is trying to make doesn't make sense. Speed and skill are separate stats. Lowering one doesn't lower the other.

Anyways, why are we talking about handbooks? Sounds like scraping the bottom of the barrel for arguments... but I suppose still a step up from pro wrestling vids and paragraphs about suplexes

Originally posted by Smurph
No, whatever point Stoic is trying to make doesn't make sense. Speed and skill are separate stats. Lowering one doesn't lower the other.

Anyways, why are we talking about handbooks? Sounds like scraping the bottom of the barrel for arguments... but I suppose still a step up from pro wrestling vids and paragraphs about suplexes

This came about because Stoic kept bringing up Nefaria is rated as a 3 and Stilt told him the rankings don't work the way he thinks. Stoic is the only one actually arguing it.

And speaking of pro wrestling videos, Stoic, did you think *I* was the one arguing it?

Originally posted by Delta1938
This came about because Stoic kept bringing up Nefaria is rated as a 3 and Stilt told him the rankings don't work the way he thinks. Stoic is the only one actually arguing it.

And speaking of pro wrestling videos, Stoic, did you think [b]*I* was the one arguing it? [/B]

Originally posted by Smurph
Thanks, though my question was rhetorical. I know we're talking about this because Stoic was arguing it, but it's a useless argument even if Stoic was explaining the stats properly, because... who cares about handbook stats?

Probably not him after this since the Handbook actually goes against his argument that Nefaria has zero fighting skill. vin

So who knows more martial arts, a chimp or a trained boxer?

I'd still bet on the chimp in a fight.