Count Nefaria Vs Hercules, speed equalised, no heat vision

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Actually. I think this is from The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Book of the Dead

https://ibb.co/41F58y3

The explanation for what stats mean is included in damn near every handbook.

And it's always the same, unless we go back to really old ones.

Originally posted by Smurph
Thanks, though my question was rhetorical. I know we're talking about this because Stoic was arguing it, but it's a useless argument even if Stoic was explaining the stats properly, because... who cares about handbook stats?

Using handbooks is one thing.

Interpreting them the way Stoic did is ridiculous. "Homo Erectus Africanus" all over again.

Handbooks give us a clearer picture of what I've been saying all along. Count Nefaria was never a fighter before gaining his powers and never once did he become a martial arts. We aren't gonna Ng to give him skills that he does not have. Hercules would brutally put him through hell.

Originally posted by Stoic
Handbooks give us a clearer picture of what I've been saying all along. Count Nefaria was never a fighter before gaining his powers and never once did he become a martial arts. We aren't gonna Ng to give him skills that he does not have. Hercules would brutally put him through hell.

And yet if you look at the description, the Handbooks actually put Nefaria at a higher fighting skill than you keep arguing. So your own source contradicts you.

It doesn't matter regardless.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So who knows more martial arts, a chimp or a trained boxer?

I'd still bet on the chimp in a fight.

I bet on the chimp too.

Good thing the Count is neither.

Originally posted by Delta1938
And yet if you look at the description, the Handbooks actually put Nefaria at a higher fighting skill than you keep arguing. So your own source contradicts you.

It doesn't matter regardless.

I bet on the chimp too.

Must be a different handbook. Going based solely on canon, Nefaria never had any formal training. Find the citations n that states that he was formally trained and was not resting on his powers to win. If you can, I stand corrected. When you don't, just let it die. He loses. If you have trouble with that, test it out for yourself. I will personally guarantee that an opponent capable of training you will destroy you

Originally posted by Stoic
Must be a different handbook. Going based solely on canon, Nefaria never had any formal training. Find the citations n that states that he was formally trained and was not resting on his powers to win. If you can, I stand corrected. When you don't, just let it die. He loses. If you have trouble with that, test it out for yourself. I will personally guarantee that an opponent capable of training you will destroy you

Yet a chimp would destroy a trained martial artist.

Originally posted by Delta1938
And yet if you look at the description, the Handbooks actually put Nefaria at a higher fighting skill than you keep arguing. So your own source contradicts you.

It doesn't matter regardless.

I bet on the chimp too.

In real life, sure.

In comics you have Doom snapping the neck of a lion, bare handed.

Namor's stat advantage never stopped Matt and Spidey from giving him a fair fight. Nor has Cages stat edge stopped Black Panther from dropping him.

Cage is little more than a jobber, if that.

Originally posted by lawest9
Cage is little more than a jobber, if that.

Well, he did go toe to toe with Ben in AvsX. 🙂

Originally posted by Stoic
Handbooks give us a clearer picture of what I've been saying all along. Count Nefaria was never a fighter before gaining his powers and never once did he become a martial arts. We aren't gonna Ng to give him skills that he does not have. Hercules would brutally put him through hell.

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Avengers 2005 lists Nefaria's fighting skill at 3

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Avengers (2004) lists Herc's fighting skill at... 4

Originally posted by Stoic
Must be a different handbook. Going based solely on canon, Nefaria never had any formal training. Find the citations n that states that he was formally trained and was not resting on his powers to win. If you can, I stand corrected. When you don't, just let it die. He loses. If you have trouble with that, test it out for yourself. I will personally guarantee that an opponent capable of training you will destroy you

Just like me posting "JBL can't spell" you miss the point. I'm not the one arguing the Handbooks. You are. I'm just pointing out the Handbooks contradict your own stance. If you're going to argue it, it's your job to prove the descriptions are different. But you painted yourself into a corner.

Also, why were you laughing at me about pro wrestling? I never argued it, the video was in the post I quoted.

And you still think I'm ignorant on fighting, but you're the one making retarded circular arguments about speed. You're the one who argued the Handbooks then cry foul when I point out your own source contradicts you. You're the one who argued a different version of Hyperion's speed for King Hyperion on top of your circular argument. You're the one who tried accusing me of contradicting myself in the Wonder Woman vs Count Nefaria thread when it's entirely different stipulations than this thread and I didn't even argue for anyone. And you're the one who accused racism when there was none due to your retarded stances.

You don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to 2+2, let alone fighting.

Originally posted by Smurph
Alright, handbooks it is.

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Avengers 2005 lists Nefaria's fighting skill at 3

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Avengers (2004) lists Herc's fighting skill at... 4

And Sentry apparently is at 2. Liberace looking pretty skilled now, as a skilled as Tony Stark.

Apparently, even Jarvis is more skilled than Sentry.

Herc apparently is as skilled as Falcon.

Originally posted by Stoic
Going based solely on canon, Nefaria never had any formal training. Find the citations n that states that he was formally trained and was not resting on his powers to win. If you can, I stand corrected.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Actually. I think this is from The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Book of the Dead

https://ibb.co/41F58y3

"3" = "Some training"

Meanwhile, Herc is "4", or "Experienced fighter"

Glad we have the handbooks to clear this up! So much for the master martial artist vs the untrained neophyte.

Bringing up Sentry and Jarvis.. 😂..

From the Batman vs heralds booster to start stat whoring is hilarious.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And Sentry apparently is at 2. Liberace looking pretty skilled now, as a skilled as Tony Stark.

Apparently, even Jarvis is more skilled than Sentry.

Herc apparently is as skilled as Falcon.

Originally posted by Smurph
Nefaria's fighting skill is 3, as you've repeatedly pointed out and relied on.

"3" = "Some training"

Meanwhile, Herc is "4", or "Experienced fighter"

Glad we have the handbooks to clear this up! So much for the master martial artist vs the untrained neophyte.

According to the handbooks, Herc hasn't even mastered any styles.

Which means he hasn't even mastered the style he created.

Originally posted by Stoic
He caught the hammer before being bludgeoned repeatedly. That’s just one example. Proof? Are you on drugs? We both know that Nefaria is faster than Thor. Is this something that you’ve suddenly become unaware of? Stop the lies.

In real life, if you put a strong man in a boxing ring with nearly zero boxing experience, the seasoned boxer is going to lay him out. If you did not know this, why not test the theory out for yourself?

And again, Nefaria isn’t like comparing a bear to a human in proportion to Nefaria vs Hercules. The difference is far less than that. If Nefaria is 100 in strength, Hercules would be 85-90.

On a combat scale, if Hercules was rated as a 100, Nefaria wooild be a 20 in terms of combat knowledge, and i’m being very generous. Perhaps you should read more of Nefaria’s appearances, because he wasn’t a fighter before gaining his powers. However on this forum, he suddenly has gained Superman’s combat knowledge.

I think chimps are actually weaker (in absolute terms) than humans. Pound for pound, they're stronger, sure, but they're also lighter than say, The Mountain. Who is also a trained boxer.

I'd still bet on a feral chimp to beat the Mountain in a fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And Sentry apparently is at 2. Liberace looking pretty skilled now, as a skilled as Tony Stark.

Apparently, even Jarvis is more skilled than Sentry.

Herc apparently is as skilled as Falcon.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
According to the handbooks, Herc hasn't even mastered any styles.

Which means he hasn't even mastered the style he created.

You should remind Stoic of these in the Black Adam vs Sentry thread.....assuming he's willing to address it.

Originally posted by Stoic
Must be a different handbook. Going based solely on canon, Nefaria never had any formal training. Find the citations n that states that he was formally trained and was not resting on his powers to win. If you can, I stand corrected. When you don't, just let it die. He loses. If you have trouble with that, test it out for yourself. I will personally guarantee that an opponent capable of training you will destroy you

So first off, it's ridiculous that you're saying it must be a different Handbook when suddenly it doesn't help you. But here is what it says.

http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/bibliography/PowerLevels.html

And that site is what the Handbooks say to go to for FAQs, explanations, etc.

https://bit.ly/3NKoue2

So it's your job to prove it's from a different Handbook since you're so keen to argue them instead of post even one single f ucking skill feat for Hercules.