Carver, did you even read my post?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Pillars that were kicked by Doomsday. I mean, if Hulk punches Wolverine and all it does is break a few trees, is that a low showing for Wolverine (who has been in nukes)? Is it a low showing for Hulk? Or do we ignore the collateral damage, and say hey, Hulk is damn strong, and Logan is lucky that his HF is that uber?
I think you and I both agree that the third statement is true.
It's cumulative damage for Superman. Which was a consistent theme throughout the entire storyline. As time went on, Superman was increasingly damaged and hurt, whilst Doomsday was fresh as a daisy.
By the by, he was literally at the center of that explosion - the electrical line in the first panel is what provided the spark that caused the explosion.
I mean, what is your end point here?
You assert that DOS Doomsday is weak (meta tier) because the opposition he faced had low showings (Superman).
You also assert he was weak because...the opposition he faced had high showings (Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner).
I mean, which is it?
Thanks for taking the time to type all that and get all those scans......but all that text was already addressed by me. I asked a question, see my post that I quote AGAIN. You also keep bringing the pillars up, but:
Superman was already weakened before the pillars hit him, thanks to the fighting. He can't even see straight, couldn't even fly. So yeah, let's see a meta who has lost their most basic of powers, who can't even see properly, survive pillars kicked by Doomsday. If Hulk kicks Logan through some trees, does that mean Hulk is weak because he can only kick a 500lb midget a short distance away? Does that mean Logan has a shitty HF? No.
With regards to your speed argument - where does it say Doomsday is going all out?
With regards to your durability argument, apart from my question above (which you keep ignoring) - don't human level characters survive herald level attacks all the time?
In fact, did I not post multiple examples for you?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here is Daredevil, point blank, against Pyro:KOd, but no burns (look at the area around his mouth).
Here is Nightwing being smashed through concrete walls by Donna Troy, no armour, and he's fine, still backflipping:
Here is Nightwing with armour, taking a point blank punch from Osiris (empowered by Black Adam, remember):
https://i.imgur.com/ajaDhG8.jpgI can do this all day.
I mean, here is Blue Beetle when he met Kingdom Come WW:
She grabs him by the throat and throws him at a boulder. He gets up, fine.
Superman does not exist in reality. Dan Jurgens does. I mean, what statements WOULD you accept? Booster said DD was faster than Flash - you never accepted that. Name a 'human' level character in comics, and I will try to find examples of them against 'heralds', or against damage.
I mean, here is frickin' PENGUIN being smashed through bathroom tiles, no blood, no injury:
My point being, 'humans' in comics survive things that no humans IRL can take. Them being damaged at all, in fact, shows extreme power.
Quite why this is all new to you after your entire reading history, is mysterious to me.
I mean, just a couple days ago you pointed out that in comics, the distance one is thrown means nothing to the damage suffered, right?
In short, a powerless Blue Beetle surviving Doomsday, is the same as that same powerless Blue Beetle surviving WW - PIS. Same way Daredevil isn't even singed from Pyro. Same way Nightwing isn't dazed from Osiris (who BA gave his power to). Same way Penguin is smashing ceramic tiles with his head and is laughing without a scratch. Name a human level comic character, and chances are they've survived things no human or even meta can - PIS.
Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday. The scan you posted is Superman being knocked the F out by pillars falling on him. Before this, he was fine.
Also, yes, there are instances of human surviving attacks they shouldn't but Doomsday entire run is him being weak AF. Also, lol at him holding back. He started off as soon as he was released from his prison choking a dear to death, killing a bird, killing people and killing a man in a diesel. There's absolutely no evidence of Doomsday holding back and that statement is laughable. You countered nothing I've said including his lame a** speed showings. Doomsday never held back. He's a wreckless animal. He doesn't know how to.
Originally posted by carver9
Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday. The scan you posted is Superman being knocked the F out by pillars falling on him. Before this, he was fine.
And for "before this, he(Superman) was fine" assertion
This is just wearing me down
https://ibb.co/t3Jc037
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So Superman was wasted but not weakened?And for "before this, he(Superman) was fine" assertion
[B]This is just wearing me down
https://ibb.co/t3Jc037 [/B]
Don't understand what you're implying here because it doesn't help the argument. Let's say he was weakened and the pillars knocked him out. Moments after this he was enduring Doomsday punches. Moments before this he withstood Doomsday punches while getting knocked out by a gas station explosion. All this means is environmental attacks like minor explosions and bricks are>>>Doomsday attacks since they caused far more damage than Doomsday did. Doomsday punches on Superman throughout the entire run didn't drop him once whereas the things mentioned in this post did.
Originally posted by carver9
Don't understand what you're implying here because it doesn't help the argument.
Originally posted by carver9
Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/wasted
Someone who is wasted is very tired and weak, often because of an illness.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/wearing+down
To cause someone or an animal to become exhausted, weakened, or fatigued. A noun or pronoun can be used between "wear" and "down."
Originally posted by carver9
Don't understand what you're implying here because it doesn't help the argument. Let's say he was weakened and the pillars knocked him out. Moments after this he was enduring Doomsday punches. Moments before this he withstood Doomsday punches while getting knocked out by a gas station explosion. All this means is environmental attacks like minor explosions and bricks are>>>Doomsday attacks since they caused far more damage than Doomsday did. Doomsday punches on Superman throughout the entire run didn't drop him once whereas the things mentioned in this post did.
Originally posted by carver9
Also, a Herald at half power, heck, even Thing should be able to endure pillars falling on them. Hell, Wolverine have withstood more than that. Spiderman has. How weakened was Superman and please don't go to low because it wouldn't help the look of Doomsday power level, at all.
Originally posted by carver9
Nothing in your scan mentions Superman being weakened by Doomsday. The scan you posted is Superman being knocked the F out by pillars falling on him. Before this, he was fine.Also, yes, there are instances of human surviving attacks they shouldn't but Doomsday entire run is him being weak AF. Also, lol at him holding back. He started off as soon as he was released from his prison choking a dear to death, killing a bird, killing people and killing a man in a diesel. There's absolutely no evidence of Doomsday holding back and that statement is laughable. You countered nothing I've said including his lame a** speed showings. Doomsday never held back. He's a wreckless animal. He doesn't know how to.
Why didn't you fly out of it?
Guardian is literally asking him why did he take all those hits when the pillars collapsed.
Superman's answer? He needed to rest. He was too wasted to fly out. He couldn't even see properly.
Why do you say Superman was fine before this?
20 pages earlier, he was already nearing his limit@
10 pages earlier, he was already dazed:
He even mentions how he's getting punchy, i.e. punch drunk:
And just before?
He's getting worn down by the fighting. Meanwhile, Doomsday is laughing his head off.
So no, he wasn't 'fine', lol. Then his dynamic strength kicked in, and he later kills Doomsday (or KOs him, whatever).
Now, the holding back - that's Galan. You want to argue against it, be my guest.
I said he was not as strong as later. He was still covered up in the burial robes, he had just woken up from his coma, so he wasn't at 100%. If he is holding back, it isn't conscious - I am saying he just isn't jumping at full speed, because he isn't at full power yet.
It's like using this showing for Hulk:
That clocks Hulk's jumping at ~450mph.
Carver, your arguments are....OK. Let's turn this around, maybe you will understand it better if I use Hulk?
You know it. WBH and a nearby pickup truck:
Hulk is NOT holding back here, btw. Explicitly thinks he is still in the Dark Dimension, AND he's fighting 3 other amped Hulk beings.
So should I SERIOUSLY, say that WBH only outputs < pickup truck level energy? That's like Low Meta level power. Hell, it might even be High Street level. Rappacini is a normal human woman there, she isn't even tanned by all that energy, despite standing NEXT to an amped WBH. If a normal woman can stand there, and her eyebrows aren't even singed....Wolverine would tank that laughing. Spiderman, too. Hell, even Aunt May could be there and she'd be OK.
Is that valid?
Of course not. IT IS PIS that the truck was unharmed, that Rappacini was OK. You know this, I know this, we all know this. WBH is NOT that weak, that pickup truck isn't Abstract level. 10,000,000% agree with you.
I mean, again, what is your point?
You assert that DOS Doomsday is weak (meta tier) because the opposition he faced had low showings (Superman).You also assert he was weak because...the opposition he faced had high showings (Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner).
I mean, which is it?
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So what are your interpretations of the words "wasted" and "wearing me down"
He wasn't wasted or weakened because he lived from this moments later. The same Doomsday Dark said was getting stronger.
So either Superman was lying or Doomsday is weak AF.
Originally posted by carver9
Dark, explain to me what page his dynamic strength kicked in and why it wasn't a weakened Superman that killed Doomsday?
https://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/RogerSternNovelisation.jpg
Originally posted by carver9
He wasn't wasted or weakened because he lived from this moments later. The same Doomsday Dark said was getting stronger.So either Superman was lying or Doomsday is weak AF.
Originally posted by carver9
Dark, explain to me what page his dynamic strength kicked in and why it wasn't a weakened Superman that killed Doomsday? This seems to match everything else that went on in the story. I'll reply to the rest of your post shortly.
Well. Since you keep harping on with the 'minor' gas station explosion...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Aren't you the one who argued a day or so ago, that Wolverine being kicked through some trees doesn't mean anything about the damage caused?
So why would Superman being hit by those pillars mean anything? I do like that you are ignoring he was pretty hurt even before they met those pillars (whilst DD is laughing at him):
And conveniently ignore the later explosion:
Where he was still conscious and holding on. A bit larger than a gas station, no?
Strange how a smaller explosion KOs him, but a much larger one doesn't, even after he's been fighting and been beaten up.
How do you explain that?
As for how it wasn't a weakened Supes:
I mean, what is your take? That a Superman who is barely able to stay conscious, can't even keep his eyes open, is capable of outputting more damage than a Superman who is fresh as a daisy 50 pages of fighting earlier?
My take - he was dying, then dynamically ramped his strength up for the final blow to kill him. So he was weaker - until he wasn't and ramped all the way back up.
