She-Hulk vs Wonder Woman

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope, even in the comic forum, unless it's in the rules thread it's just their views. I know this because I had to go through these hoops to get my Hercs ruling codified, and my superspeed ruling, and my Hulk incarnations ruling, etc.

Mods have to make a ruling, and to do so it has to be in the stickied rules thread.

Until then, it is not a rule. It's just their opinion, their view. Much like Gala's view that all of DC is canon, or that there is only one Mxy. Much like -Pr-'s view that carver is an idiot and a troll, or that Superman has dynamic strength and speed - if all these posts that they've made are truly 'forum tules' just because a mod said them, most 'debates' would have been killed off on page 1.

We disagree on that issue. Leaving the battlefield to seek outside help is generally a matter of common sense. No one argues that for a reason. However, this is not a viable option due to the other five issues, rendering the argument that 'anything goes if there's no official rule against it' moot.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Source: "trust me bro"

I think I vaguely remember what he's referring to, but without quoting it we can't confirm exactly what the mod said. And as DS has mentioned, even if it was said it was just a ruling at that time for that thread.

Having said that I don't buy for a second that characters can't use their main abilities to win a fight, just because it might mean leaving the battlefield for a second. I mean going by this Nightcrawler or Azazel can't drop people from the sky (like Azazel kept doing in First Class). Or Flash can't run around the world in a few seconds to do super punch like he did to Luthor-Braniac in JLU.

The argument isn't about leaving the battlefield.
It's about leaving the battlefield to specifically receive outside help from another.
Rules are irrelevant in that case, as it is a matter of common sense.

Originally posted by h1a8

The argument isn't about leaving the battlefield.
It's about leaving the battlefield to specifically receive outside help from another.
Rules are irrelevant in that case, as it is a matter of common sense.

It's not outside help though. You seem to think KEVIN is a She-Hulk ally or something.

No She-Hulk goes into the real world in her She-Hulk form where she can bully whoever she needs to to change the plot until it goes the way she wants. It's her power to do this, and she can just go back as if she never left the battlefield.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's not outside help though. You seem to think KEVIN is a She-Hulk ally or something.

No She-Hulk goes into the real world in her She-Hulk form where she can bully whoever she needs to to change the plot until it goes the way she wants. It's her power to do this, and she can just go back as if she never left the battlefield.

But that is off the table anyway.So we are just debating for shuts and giggles

Originally posted by h1a8
We disagree on that issue. Leaving the battlefield to seek outside help is generally a matter of common sense. No one argues that for a reason. However, this is not a viable option due to the other five issues, rendering the argument that 'anything goes if there's no official rule against it' moot.

The argument isn't about leaving the battlefield.
It's about leaving the battlefield to specifically receive outside help from another.
Rules are irrelevant in that case, as it is a matter of common sense.

If you are only arguing about Kevin, that is a different matter

I am arguing about breaking the 4th wall and leaving the unspecified battlefield, which there isn't a rule against or defining.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's called receiving outside help. It doesn't matter if she can mind control the person to achieve the help. It's still the principal of common sense.

But that is off the table anyway.So we are just debating for shuts and giggles

It's not "help" when she's bullying them into it. This is also part of her power set. Like DS mentioned, Thor calling Mjolnir is outside help. But like you stated it's part of his abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's not "help" when she's bullying them into it. This is also part of her power set. Like DS mentioned, Thor calling Mjolnir is outside help. But like you stated it's part of his abilities.

Mind controlling is even more than bullying.

You keep separating the two. They go together. Leaving the battlefield + getting outside help is against common sense.

Thor has Mjolnir. He doesn't need to leave the battlefield to go get it.
Its called standard equipment.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If you are only arguing about Kevin, that is a different matter

I am arguing about breaking the 4th wall and leaving the unspecified battlefield, which there isn't a rule against or defining.

Without Kevin, the discussion is moot. He's the key to all of this.

Originally posted by h1a8
Without Kevin, the discussion is moot. He's the key to all of this.

How and why? She has proven to be independent from Kevin.

Originally posted by tkitna
How and why? She has proven to be independent from Kevin.

What can she do to WW to help win the fight without Kevin's assistance?
She has to fight her normally.

Originally posted by h1a8
Mind controlling is even more than bullying.

You keep separating the two. They go together. Leaving the battlefield + getting outside help is against common sense.

Thor has Mjolnir. He doesn't need to leave the battlefield to go get it.
Its called standard equipment.

Lol so if Professor X mind controls people to attack his opponent then that's outside help?

No he's using his own abilities to aid him in battle which you want to take away because you want your own character to win.

As far as the battle goes it won't seem/be like she left. From Wonder Woman's POV things will just go wrong for her in the fight.

Okay, so if Mjolnir is his standard weapon then if he calls Strombreaker then that's outside help?

Think carefully. Your problem is you decide who you want to win and then think in a linear plane where only that result is a possibility. You don't think first to decide who would win based on abilities.

Originally posted by h1a8
What can she do to WW to help win the fight without Kevin's assistance?
She has to fight her normally.

😂 She can break the 4th wall. She can change outcomes. She can't lose if she chooses to. Kevin has nothing to do with that.

Originally posted by tkitna
😂 She can break the 4th wall. She can change outcomes. She can't lose if she chooses to. Kevin has nothing to do with that.

Troll post

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol so if Professor X mind controls people to attack his opponent then that's outside help?

No he's using his own abilities to aid him in battle which you want to take away because you want your own character to win.

As far as the battle goes it won't seem/be like she left. From Wonder Woman's POV things will just go wrong for her in the fight.

Okay, so if Mjolnir is his standard weapon then if he calls Strombreaker then that's outside help?

Think carefully. Your problem is you decide who you want to win and then think in a linear plane where only that result is a possibility. You don't think first to decide who would win based on abilities.

If Professor X leaves the battlefield to mind-control someone else into helping him win, that's considered leaving the battlefield to get outside help.

If you can magically or technically summon objects to you, that's fair game—but you need feats to demonstrate that you can do this. However, you can't leave the battlefield to retrieve those objects or outside assistance.

See the difference?

And this is all a moot discussion anyway. The Kevin thing is off the table for the 4-5 other reasons why I stated awhile ago.

And we stated that breaking the 4th wall isn't relegated to just talking with Kevin. If you can break the 4th wall, that's your ability. Not whatever you do while breaking it. So she can do whatever she wants.

Originally posted by KingD19
And we stated that breaking the 4th wall isn't relegated to just talking with Kevin. If you can break the 4th wall, that's your ability. Not whatever you do while breaking it. So she can do whatever she wants.

Exactly its just that H1 can't accept that.

Originally posted by h1a8
Troll post

No he is correct. She-Hulk enters the "real world" in her She-Hulk form so can bully whoever she needs to. KEVIN or not.

Originally posted by h1a8
If Professor X leaves the battlefield to mind-control someone else into helping him win, that's considered leaving the battlefield to get outside help.

If you can magically or technically summon objects to you, that's fair game—but you need feats to demonstrate that you can do this. However, you can't leave the battlefield to retrieve those objects or outside assistance.

See the difference?

I didn't say Prof X leaves the battlefield. I was addressing the "outside help" under your own power/abilities, which it seems like you have conceded.

So in terms of leaving the battlefield, Azazel teleporting people into the Sky. Allowed or not allowed? What about Nightcrawler dropping a bomb in a sentinel and teleporting away? What about Hiro from Heroes teleporting home to grab his sword for a second before teleporting back? All Allowed or not?

FYI No idea who gave you the right to make the rules. You're not a mod. And you're super biased. My point here is you seem to be using this excuse of "leaving battlefield" to take away legit abilities/powers.

As far as Wonder Woman is concerned

Originally posted by KingD19
And we stated that breaking the 4th wall isn't relegated to just talking with Kevin. If you can break the 4th wall, that's your ability. Not whatever you do while breaking it. So she can do whatever she wants.

Special attributes must be demonstrated through on-screen feats. As far as we've seen, her abilities while breaking the fourth wall are limited to communicating with the audience or leaving to talk to Kevin. She has no other proven powers in this context. If she could do whatever she wanted, she wouldn't have needed Kevin's assistance.

The statement 'She can do whatever she wants without Kevin' is therefore false.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No he is correct. She-Hulk enters the "real world" in her She-Hulk form so can bully whoever she needs to. KEVIN or not.

I didn't say Prof X leaves the battlefield. I was addressing the "outside help" under your own power/abilities, which it seems like you have conceded.

So in terms of leaving the battlefield, Azazel teleporting people into the Sky. Allowed or not allowed? What about Nightcrawler dropping a bomb in a sentinel and teleporting away? What about Hiro from Heroes teleporting home to grab his sword for a second before teleporting back? All Allowed or not?

FYI No idea who gave you the right to make the rules. You're not a mod. And you're super biased. My point here is you seem to be using this excuse of "leaving battlefield" to take away legit abilities/powers.

As far as Wonder Woman is concerned

The discussion is moot because of the other 4-5 reasons already presented. At this point, we're debating for shits and giggles.

IMP has already clarified that characters can't leave the battlefield to get outside help. Even if that rule wasn't explicitly stated, it still goes against the spirit and intent of the debate. For example, a Batman vs. Daredevil match doesn't involve Batman leaving the fight to get Superman’s help— that's just common sense.

Your examples are flawed. The battlefield must always remain within the field of view of all characters, and the sky is included as part of the battlefield. The general rule is horizon to horizon. Nightcrawler doesn't have the ability to teleport to any universe he wants, and even if he could, it wouldn't be allowed for him to do so in order to receive outside assistance.

Leaving the battlefield to get outside help is not permitted. You might try to strawman my argument by separating it into 'leaving the battlefield' and 'obtaining outside help,' but it won’t work. The point is that leaving the battlefield specifically to get outside help is not allowed.

She didn't need Kevin's assistance. Why do you keep going back to that? She bullied the writers first by almost smashing their table and they pointed Kevin out to her. She manipulated Kevin instead of bullying him. The ending was already ruined by her doing that. If she chose, she could have just refused the ending.

Do you get it now?

Originally posted by tkitna
She didn't need Kevin's assistance. Why do you keep going back to that? She bullied the writers first by almost smashing their table and they pointed Kevin out to her. She manipulated Kevin instead of bullying him. The ending was already ruined by her doing that. If she chose, she could have just refused the ending.

Do you get it now?

You're missing the point. Whether she bullied, convinced, or used any other method to utilize Kevin, it doesn't matter. The fact remains that it was Kevin who changed the plot, not her. Without Kevin as an option, all she can do is break the fourth wall and talk to the audience—none of which would stop her from getting beaten.

Do you get it now?

Originally posted by h1a8
You're missing the point. Whether she bullied, convinced, or used any other method to utilize Kevin, it doesn't matter. The fact remains that it was Kevin who changed the plot, not her. Without Kevin as an option, all she can do is break the fourth wall and talk to the audience—none of which would stop her from getting beaten.

Do you get it now?

So if Prof X uses mind control to control others to fight for him, that doesnt count ?

DO YOU get it now ?