HP Doomsday vs Space Ants

Back on-topic for this thread: the Vrellnexians did better off-panel against Odin and the Asgardians than the combined team of the Infinity Watch, Thanos, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange.

The Infinity Watch, Thanos, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange would stomp H/P Doomsday. And Odin would stomp H/P Doomsday. Ergo, the Vrellnexians would stomp H/P Doomsday.

Apparently the trump card to dispute such an obvious conclusion that H/P Doomsday loses was that... Darkseid once resurrected a human girl???

*looks back at the last nine pages*

Oh, yeah. It didn't pay off. kinda

Originally posted by ODG
Back on-topic for this thread: the Vrellnexians did better off-panel against Odin and the Asgardians than the combined team of the Infinity Watch, Thanos, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange.

The Infinity Watch, Thanos, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange would stomp H/P Doomsday. And Odin would stomp H/P Doomsday. Ergo, the Vrellnexians would stomp H/P Doomsday.

Apparently the trump card to dispute such an obvious conclusion that H/P Doomsday loses was that... Darkseid once resurrected a human girl???

*looks back at the last nine pages*

Oh, yeah. It didn't pay off. kinda

Sure thing dude.

Originally posted by ODG
That wasn't even multiversal True Form Darkseid. Just Darkseid w/ ALE. We saw multiversal True Form Darkseid for the first time during Infinite Frontier #0 per his own words.

As opposed to one farce out of dozens over the years from you? It's sad you think my retorts are meant for you. My audience is the wider KMC forum. I have no intentions of curing your unique imbecility. Just exposing it for everybody else's laffs.

😂

Sure thing dude.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, the whole point of Final Crisis was that Darkseid appeared in multiverse in his true form for the first time

This is straight on-panel comic fact.

^ Pretty badass though, lol.

^ Joshua Williamson is getting a second shot at multiversal True Form Darkseid with the follow-up to Absolute Power in the DC All-In special.

I'm positive DC editorial scaled back multiversal True Form Darkseid's involvement in Dark Crisis to save him for this.

Let's see what he can do. 👆

Die

^ Well... I mean him dying was already spoiled by ads apparently. sneer

Let's just hope the multiversal True Form Darkseid w/o amps can surpass Final Crisis Darkseid w/ ALE's feats. Otherwise, what's the point? Might as well just bring back Grant Morrison's take on the ALE back into the picture.

Originally posted by ODG
That's an old KMC myth that's like 15 years outdated and conclusively refuted by the multiversal True Form Darkseid appearing for the first time in Infinite Frontier #0:

This is straight on-panel comic fact.

There was a war in heaven and Darkseid fell and hit the multiverse and was dragging it into the void and collapsing it into a singularity around himself. “Like a black hole in creation where his heart used to be”. The very concept of evil itself living in the multiverse and dragging it to hell made all the stories get infected with its darkness more and more from the time he landed/first seen in Seven Soldiers as Boss Dark Side, but that body wasn’t strong enough so he changed.

At the end of Final Crisis his “true form” died, but Nix Uotan was tricked into awakening it.

In Infinite Frontier he has both his true self back for the first time since FC, and has consolidated the power of all his emanations/avatars into one being.

Originally posted by Juntai
two different things. Darkseid only acts in the multiverse through emanations/avatars, all the gods do.

Originally posted by Juntai
This is why in Final Crisis he exactly said (closely paraphrased) “you’ve only ever faced the IDEA of a god before, but now I’m here in the flesh among you”, because the Sphere of Gods is the realm where ideas take form.

Originally posted by Juntai
There was a war in heaven and Darkseid fell and hit the multiverse and was dragging it into the void and collapsing it into a singularity around himself. “Like a black hole in creation where his heart used to be”. The very concept of evil itself living in the multiverse and dragging it to hell made all the stories get infected with its darkness more and more from the time he landed/first seen in Seven Soldiers as Boss Dark Side, but that body wasn’t strong enough so he changed.

Originally posted by Juntai
In Infinite Frontier he has both his true self back for the first time since FC, and has consolidated the power of all his emanations/avatars into one being.

I dunno. Arguing that the ALE had little/nothing to do with the events that Darkseid wrought during Final Crisis strikes me as if you'd argue that the IG had nothing/little to with the events that Thanos wrought during Infinity Gauntlet.

Now let's rotate back towards the genesis of this "debate": abhilegend trying to elevate H/P Doomsday beyond Odin. That's what all these allusions towards multiversal True Form Darkseid are ultimately supposed to lead towards, right?

H/P Doomsday > (multiversal True Form) Darkseid > Odin.

I mean.... just declare it and say it out loud: H/P Doomsday three-pieced a multiversal True Form Darkseid... so he'd dominate skyfather Odin. Seriously? When you boil it down, that's the conclusion being implied.

Sorry. But anybody who does, I sh1t on you. Twice on Sundays.

I wholeheartedly invite debate with me about Final Crisis and how much of those events were due to Darkseid's own power or the ALE. But the H/P Doomsday transitive fallacy being peddled here? Phuck off and leave the real discussion to your betters, abhilegend.

Originally posted by ODG
If they did, then Orion's fall would've resulted in more than a corpse landing amongst garbage cans. Lip-service from the mouth of a self-aggrandizing villain doesn't necessarily imbue Orion, Darkseid, Barda, Steppenwolf with multiversal relevance. Quite frankly, given the entire conglomerated history of these characters, it proved to be hogwash. Because Darkseid finally obtained the ALE which literally warped existence into reflecting him and his own state. Distorted, evil, twisted, with a deep gaping maw at its core. You realize the panel itself says since "before the first Crisis" and not since before the Final Crisis.

I dunno. Arguing that the ALE had little/nothing to do with the events that Darkseid wrought during Final Crisis strikes me as if you'd argue that the IG had nothing/little to with the events that Thanos wrought during Infinity Gauntlet.

Then we have to understand also what we saw in Multiversity. Multiversity is meant to take place right after Final Crisis when the Monitor Nix Uotan takes up his role as Judge of the Multiverse. After Darkseid was finally sung out of existence by Superman. Nix Uotan when corrupted by the Gentry, ressurected Darkseid "I, Nix Uotan of The Gentry, unleash Darkseid to pleague Creation." and the New Gods of Earth-51 sat there and conversed about this. "He touches many worlds now. He wears many faces. All grim." "These other worlds, Highfather..." "Each hosting multiple emanations of Darkseid, Lightray. And of us." "Barda's right. He's rebuilding his god-head from shattered fragments." Keep in mind, these are the New Gods who fought in the War in Heaven and lost. They were eventually restored by Nix Uotan and given to the Graveyard universe of Earth-51.

The only versions we typically see were just emanations/avatars.

New genesis/the dreaming/ apokalypse/heaven/hell are infinitely layered. When these places interact with the multiverse or vice versa it’s not always the same depending on who it is, because you’re only seeing a sliver of the whole.

And yes, Orion is the concept of War, and also acts through emanations.

Originally posted by Juntai
The only versions we typically see were just emanations/avatars.

New genesis/the dreaming/ apokalypse/heaven/hell are infinitely layered. When these places interact with the multiverse or vice versa it’s not always the same depending on who it is, because you’re only seeing a sliver of the whole.

Originally posted by Juntai
And yes, Orion is the concept of War, and also acts through emanations.

What was the difference between Orion falling and Darkseid falling? Darkseid had the ALE. So when Orion ripped Darkseid's heart out and Darkseid fell, existence warped to reflect Darkseid's state.

But when Orion was killed and descended, no such warping of existence occurred. He landed in a garbage heap unceremoniously. So all arguments about Darkseid's inherent status as a New God of the Fourth World being solely responsible for Final Crisis utterly fail when you simply look at Orion's own fall/death. Because Orion's fall/death should have been comparably catastrophic. But it wasn't. At all.

And we're supposed to pretend that Darkseid's possession of the ALE has nothing to do with the stark differentiation here between their respective falls? The ALE that makes you master of existence to the point where existence mirrors your own state of being has little/nothing to do with Final Crisis?

Nah, mang.

Originally posted by ODG
That's an old KMC myth that's like 15 years outdated and conclusively refuted by the multiversal True Form Darkseid appearing for the first time in Infinite Frontier #0:

This is straight on-panel comic fact.

What a dumb hill to die on lol. Here's the final crisis recounting in Justice League Incarnate which happens after Infinite Frontier.

^ You literally posted scans that don't serve to prove a single thing you're arguing for. What is the point of your posts and links? To trick people who don't bother to click the links into thinking you have on-panel proof?

Shut up and let Juntai debate, ok?

Originally posted by ODG
If they did, then Orion's fall would've resulted in more than a corpse landing amongst garbage cans. Lip-service from the mouth of a self-aggrandizing villain doesn't necessarily imbue Orion, Darkseid, Barda, Steppenwolf with multiversal relevance. Quite frankly, given the entire conglomerated history of these characters, it proved to be hogwash.

You realize the panel itself says since "before the first Crisis" and not since before the Final Crisis.

I dunno. Arguing that the ALE had little/nothing to do with the events that Darkseid wrought during Final Crisis strikes me as if you'd argue that the IG had nothing/little to with the events that Thanos wrought during Infinity Gauntlet.

Why are you so stupid?

Originally posted by ODG
^ You literally posted scans that don't serve to prove a single thing you're arguing for. What is the point of your posts and links? To trick people who don't bother to click the links into thinking you have on-panel proof?

Shut up and let Juntai debate, ok?

Originally posted by ODG
Now let's rotate back towards the genesis of this "debate": abhilegend trying to elevate H/P Doomsday beyond Odin. That's what all these allusions towards multiversal True Form Darkseid are ultimately supposed to lead towards, right?

H/P Doomsday > (multiversal True Form) Darkseid > Odin.

I mean.... just declare it and say it out loud: H/P Doomsday three-pieced a multiversal True Form Darkseid... so he'd dominate skyfather Odin. Seriously? When you boil it down, that's the conclusion being implied.

Sorry. But anybody who does, I sh1t on you. Twice on Sundays.

I wholeheartedly invite debate with me about Final Crisis and how much of those events were due to Darkseid's own power or the ALE. But the H/P Doomsday transitive fallacy being peddled here? Phuck off and leave the real discussion to your betters, abhilegend.

^ Shut up and let Juntai debate, ok? He might actually have a constructive response as to why Orion falling had no catastrophic effects like Darkseid's fall did.

But since you're so obsessed with chasing me despite being told to phuck off, I challenge you on this related (but limited) topic: show me on-panel evidence of Big Barda's multiversality.

Originally posted by ODG
But by that logic, Big Barda, Steppenwolf, Desaad, Mad Harriet, etc. also have multiversal relevance. Yet, I didn't see that during Final Crisis. We agree that the closest New God to Darkseid's station is his son, Orion. The Dog of War, The Hunter. Wielder of the Astro Force. He who literally tore Darkseid's heart out during that war in heaven that precipitated Final Crisis itself. Orion fell. And what happened? He landed in a garbage heap.

What was the difference between Orion falling and Darkseid falling? Darkseid had the ALE. So when Orion ripped Darkseid's heart out and Darkseid fell, existence warped to reflect Darkseid's state.

But when Orion was killed and descended, no such warping of existence occurred. He landed in a garbage heap unceremoniously. So all arguments about Darkseid's inherent status as a New God of the Fourth World being solely responsible for Final Crisis utterly fail when you simply look at Orion's own fall/death. Because Orion's fall/death should have been comparably catastrophic. But it wasn't. At all.

And we're supposed to pretend that Darkseid's possession of the ALE has nothing to do with the stark differentiation here between their respective falls? The ALE that makes you master of existence to the point where existence mirrors your own state of being has little/nothing to do with Final Crisis?

Nah, mang.

If you have some proof in the story, cool, I’d be happy to go over it and perhaps alter my take, but the story attributes the damage is due to his actual conceptual being landing on the multiverse, unless I’m forgetting something, which could happen.