HP Doomsday vs Space Ants

Originally posted by Juntai
Darkseid’s conceptual self was still alive, Orion was shot with the radion bullet which killed his entire concept. The very idea of him. At least a part of him lasted long enough to try to deliver the warning.

If you have some proof in the story, cool, I’d be happy to go over it and perhaps alter my take, but the story attributes the damage is due to his actual conceptual being landing on the multiverse, unless I’m forgetting something, which could happen.

But let's run with your new reasoning. Ok. A lot of New Gods descended from the Fourth World without having their conceptual selves utterly eliminated. Where was the upheaval from their descent?

Well let’s go one at a time. Are we in agreement that this is the first time a non-emanation version of Darkseid is on Earth, and that Darkseid acts throughout the multiverse with that avatars/emanations?

Originally posted by ODG
^ Shut up and let Juntai debate, ok? He might actually have a constructive response as to why Orion falling had no catastrophic effects like Darkseid's fall did.

Because Orion was already dead by the time of the crisis as described in Final Crisis 6. His emanations died in an infinite number of deaths.

Orion fell in the final battle wounding Darkseid in heaven before his fall on the multiverse.

But since you're so obsessed with chasing me despite being told to phuck off, I challenge you on this related (but limited) topic: show me on-panel evidence of Big Barda's multiversality.

Nobody cares about your strawman. Bring the proof that ALE warped the reality in Final Crisis as you claimed.

I was gonna get there Abhi, I had to go back and slow it down because it was getting all over the place. lol.

Frankly the idea that ALE did all the damage in Final Crisis because Orion or whoever didn't destroy the multiverse so Darkseid couldn't have done it is so monumentally stupid, it beggars belief.

The comic hit it over your head like a dozen times that all of it was due to Darkseid falling from the fourth world.

Originally posted by ODG
Back on-topic for this thread: the Vrellnexians did better off-panel against Odin and the Asgardians than the combined team of the Infinity Watch, Thanos, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange.

The Infinity Watch, Thanos, Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange would stomp H/P Doomsday. And Odin would stomp H/P Doomsday. Ergo, the Vrellnexians would stomp H/P Doomsday.

Apparently the trump card to dispute such an obvious conclusion that H/P Doomsday loses was that... Darkseid once resurrected a human girl???

*looks back at the last nine pages*

Oh, yeah. It didn't pay off. kinda

ABC logic never really works, though? Plus we have PIS etc.

Deathstroke has, on-panel, stabbed Wally in the chest. Tagged WW in combat.

Wally would literally run rings around XYZ. WW has some of the best combat reaction feats for a herald tier.

Therefore, Deathstroke would speedblitz [insert character]. We can replace Deathstroke with any other time Flash has been tagged, the argument is the same.

I mean, I just chalk it up to a low showing for Odin - every character gets them. And I move on. It does not mean the ants are above the Skyfather tier as a collective or something.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
ABC logic never really works, though? Plus we have PIS etc.

Deathstroke has, on-panel, stabbed Wally in the chest. Tagged WW in combat.

Wally would literally run rings around XYZ. WW has some of the best combat reaction feats for a herald tier.

Therefore, Deathstroke would speedblitz [insert character]. We can replace Deathstroke with any other time Flash has been tagged, the argument is the same.

I mean, I just chalk it up to a low showing for Odin - every character gets them. And I move on. It does not mean the ants are above the Skyfather tier as a collective or something.

Originally posted by Juntai
Well let’s go one at a time. Are we in agreement that this is the first time a non-emanation version of Darkseid is on Earth, and that Darkseid acts throughout the multiverse with that avatars/emanations?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because Orion was already dead by the time of the crisis as described in Final Crisis 6. His emanations died in an infinite number of deaths.

https://postimg.cc/s1MhwcZL

Orion fell in the final battle wounding Darkseid in heaven before his fall on the multiverse.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
ABC logic never really works, though? Plus we have PIS etc.

Thanks for your useless contribution to this discussion. 👆

Well, I already said it's a low showing above...sure, if you want, we can say its PIS? Which again, means nothing in a forum fight - Deathstroke tagging Flash is PIS, doesn't mean he's doing the same against Quicksilver or Northstar in a forum fight, or that he's outreacting Magneto or whatever.

So them beating Odin does not mean they're beating Doomsday. Good to see my contribution is helping 👆

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So them beating Odin does not mean they're beating Doomsday. Good to see my contribution is helping

You didn't think this through did you? Even though that was literally the next logical premise to follow. Well done?

Originally posted by ODG
Wha? Just answer my question. All the other New Gods descended. Where was the upheaval from their descent? Orion was still alive when he descended onto Earth. Re-read Final Crisis #1:

Darkseid was the only one alive. And he purposely crashed his true essence into the multiverse.

The rest of the gods are dead, the other evil gods inhabiting bodies in the story are extensions of Darkseid, and Orion is dead. Except for Metron because he wasn’t part of the war.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140629052339/http://www.newsarama.com/485-grant-morrison-on-final-crisis-2.html

GM:
As we find out, the only New God to be reborn is Darkseid himself. Based on what Jack Kirby himself established, we know that Darkseid has the power to recreate his whole court - Glorious Godfrey, Granny Goodness, Kalibak and the others - from nothing more than memories. As we know, he’s able to restore them all to life even after they’ve been killed, so what we’re seeing in Final Crisis is something similar. I’m playing Darksid’s allies more as emanations of His Will, like shades in the spectrum of his absolute Evil.

Look, there’s no arguing it, not only is it on panel in story repeatedly that his fall is the cause of the destruction, but Morrison also states in interviews.

It’s also in there numerous times exactly what the Antilife is responsible for in the story. It’s an attack on free will/the soul.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150420151309/http://www.newsarama.com/965-grant-morrison-on-final-crisis-3.html

NRAMA: To translate Uberfraulein's comments, she mentions the "bleeding heavens" - basically, we're taking that this is the Supergirl from earth-10 as shown in the final pages of 52? And that means that something is ripping up the multiverse?

GM: The Multiversal structure of parallel worlds is collapsing. Darkseid’s fall has broken the Multiverse basically and he’s pulling everything that exists down with him into Hell, the swine!

If you’re unwilling to actually read the book and look for all the times it’s mentioned that Darkseid’s fall is the cause or the other time where it mentions his presence is warping time, I can dig up when I have time and put them on imgr for you.

Originally posted by ODG
You'd have to conclude that any fight between H/P Doomsday and the Vrellnexians would come down to stupid PIS where H/P Doomsday loses anyway off-panel to be consistent.

You didn't think this through did you? Even though that was literally the next logical premise to follow. Well done?

I'd say in a forum fight, Odin won't lose to them either and would win.....

Yes I did think it through. Thanks for keeping the faith in me 👆

Originally posted by ODG
Orion was still alive when he descended onto Earth. Re-read Final Crisis #1:

Only an emanation, the real Orion died back in the final battle before Crisis even began.

Barry Allen only saw Darkseid fall from the fourth world to 3D World, no other new God descended.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11117/111177306/5676201-0251551480-darks.jpg

Anyway, here's all the times it is mentioned in Final Crisis where the damage to multiverse, space time breakdown is directly confirmed to be due to the fall of Darkseid.

Literally none of them even allude to ALE playing a part in it.

Originally posted by Juntai
one of his emanations/avatars.

f you’re unwilling to actually read the book and look for all the times it’s mentioned that Darkseid’s fall is the cause or the other time where it mentions his presence is warping time, I can dig up when I have time and put them on imgr for you.

Do us both a favor and don't accuse me of not reading Final Crisis. We've got one bleeding butthurt troll here already. Simply declaring your interpretation is true isn't a debate. Respond to my discourse, questions and criticisms directly or don't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only an emanation, the real Orion died back in the final battle before Crisis even began.

Darkseid was the only god whose full true essence fell to Earth. It’s the only one that ever happened on panel, and all the destruction is directly attributed to it about a dozen times in Final Crisis.

If you have any proof that Antilife was anything more than exactly what it also says about a dozen times in the comic, then by all means.

Originally posted by Juntai
Darkseid was the only god whose full true essence fell to Earth.

I know what your conclusion is. You've repeated several times pretending it's a constructive reply or refutation or rebuttal. But it's just your conclusion repeated over and over again in the face of all of my discourse, questions and criticisms.

If you have no actual argument or proof, then so be it.

Originally posted by Juntai
If you have any proof that Antilife was anything more than exactly what it also says about a dozen times in the comic, then by all means.

Originally posted by ODG
Just admit when you're clearly wrong. It doesn't need to go further than that.

Hahahahahaha, buddy you're so wrong it's not even funny anymore. See a doctor to solve the cognitive dissonance.

Originally posted by ODG
Go ahead and handwave everything away with the same premise, "ALE has nothing to do w/ anything because Darkseid is just that powerful and nobody else is." Thing is... that's exactly the conclusion you're arguing for. So it's not an argument. It's your conclusion.

I know what your conclusion is. You've repeated several times pretending it's a constructive reply or refutation or rebuttal. But it's just your conclusion repeated over and over again in the face of all of my discourse, questions and criticisms.

If you have no actual argument or proof, then so be it. We both know what that proof is. I don't need to repeat my posts and scans from dozens of posts in the past between you and I, let alone the ones I just reposted for abhib1tch in a parallel thread.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Anyway, here's all the times it is mentioned in Final Crisis where the damage to multiverse, space time breakdown is directly confirmed to be due to the fall of Darkseid.

Literally none of them even allude to ALE playing a part in it.