Batman vs Daredevil

Originally posted by abhilegend
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

No way, light is so much faster than light.

A human being faster than a bullet is absurd, just like a human being faster than light. Just because one is more absurd doesn't mean the other is more plausible. If you want to apply PIS for one, do it for both otherwise its just double standards.

Originally posted by abhilegend
More reason for her to have supersonic speed feats then.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If one is more absurd, then the other is inherently more plausible. That's what it means for something to be [b]more absurd, it is less likely/realistic than the other option. And in this particular case it's a LOT less likely and realistic given the difference between the two. Anyone who can't see it would have to be suffering from something like the kid in that movie who couldn't properly process shapes [/B]

Moving at supersonic speeds, whilst relatively more plausible, is still absurd, is what Abhi is saying.

And then as Phildo said, where does this line go? Mach 2? 3? 50?

Mach 200 is still much more plausible than FTL, Mach 500 is more plausible, 10x lightspeed is more absurd than 2x lightspeed, where does the line between 'this is TOO absurd' go?

Originally posted by Smurph
I've never claimed that, so clearly this has turned into a Marvel/DC thing for you, which it isn't for me.

Originally posted by SnazzySmurph
Well, Surfer can do damn near everything Kain seems to be able to do, as well as a truckload of other stuff, like move at speeds that put even Superman to shame, not to mention possessing very good mental resistance, and even TP of his own.

There's a ton of characters in the Mid-High who have super speed in the extreme, and most have good mental resistance.

Oh my bad.

In 2007, I was wrong.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Moving at supersonic speeds, whilst relatively more plausible, is still absurd, is what Abhi is saying.

And then as Phildo said, where does this line go? Mach 2? 3? 50?

Mach 200 is still much more plausible than FTL, Mach 500 is more plausible, 10x lightspeed is more absurd than 2x lightspeed, where does the line between 'this is TOO absurd' go?

Originally posted by Smurph

Whenever this topic comes up the discussion quickly spirals into these slippery slope arguments, which always suffer from the slippery slope fallacy.

The answer is that each feat should be assessed separately, on the facts relevant to the feat and character. We don't need one inflexible and universally applicable rule that pre-defines PIS in all contexts, because everything really turns on the facts of each feat.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If one is more absurd, then the other is inherently more plausible. That's what it means for something to be [b]more absurd, it is less likely/realistic than the other option. And in this particular case it's a LOT less likely and realistic given the difference between the two. Anyone who can't see it would have to be suffering from something like the kid in that movie who couldn't properly process shapes [/B]

Originally posted by Smurph

In the context of Batman, he always does well against metahumans. Relevant to the character, he gets to fight Zoom, Mongul, WW, Damage, Gotham etc.

I just don't think bullets are that good a metric, considering in the context of one character (Elektra) she is squishy and needs to avoid bullets, and the other (Batman) he straight up tanks bullets and uses his cape to deliberately draw fire etc. It's the same way we have Sue (of course!!) having all these amazing showings of reacting to attacks, despite her physicals being that of a normal human - she is squishy, and needs them otherwise she dies on page 1.

Logan would be a good example, I think. He doesn't slice bullets out of the air as much as Elektra (I..don't think so anyway) but would we say Elektra is THAT much faster (if at all)? Probably an imperfect analogy, so don't get too hung up on it - the point is that Elektra has the showings, because she needs them. Bulletproof characters don't.

Originally posted by Smurph
Sure Abhi. Maybe you can write her next solo and put in a sprinting scene.

Originally posted by Smurph
Oh my bad.

In 2007, I was wrong.

😛

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just because Batman can't move at FTL speeds doesn't mean Elektra can move at supersonic speeds.

Nobody has said that Batman not being able to do something means that Elektra can do something.

They're separate characters with separate histories and feats. There's no "if Batman, then Elektra".

Originally posted by Smurph
I agree.

Nobody has said that Batman not being able to do something means that Elektra can do something.

They're separate characters with separate histories and feats. There's no "if Batman, then Elektra".

Glad to hear that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you agree, Elektra isn't supersonic and can't be faster than bullets, just like Batman can't move FTL and be faster than heat vision.

Glad to hear that.

You're trying to connect them where there is no connection.

The difference between the feats is stunningly silly and anybody arguing in good faith can see that. If people want to get into an academic debate about where the line should be drawn, have at it (imo kind of a fruitless discussion, but whatever) but obviously these two feats leave a ton of room to do that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It's amazing how stupid you are. I'm not saying anything like that, I'm saying Batman moving FTL AND Elektra moving supersonic are both absurd, only separated by the level of absurdness. Just because Batman can't move at FTL speeds doesn't mean Elektra can move at supersonic speeds.

Originally posted by Smurph
No, re read what I wrote.

You're trying to connect them where there is no connection.

The difference between the feats is stunningly silly and anybody arguing in good faith can see that. If people want to get into an academic debate about where the line should be drawn, have at it (imo kind of a fruitless discussion, but whatever) but obviously these two feats leave a ton of room to do that.

Sure. Anyway, I was wondering if you could enlighten us the difference between Cap and Batman vs Elektra.

Originally posted by Smurph
Reacting to muzzle fire means you're reacting after the trigger has been pulled. The bullet is leaving the chamber.

I suppose on the margin of things it just adds to Elektra being slightly faster... but as I said, Cap's in the ballpark.

I took the motion lines in the first scan to be the bullet leaving the gun, not just muzzle flare, but I take your point that it could be the flash. I don't think it changes the ballpark of the feat by any means though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm just wondering how Cap is in the ballpark of Elektra for doing the same thing Batman does but in his case Elektra is clearly faster than Batman lol.

As I said, double standards ahoy.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's exactly what you said. It just happened but if you need I can quote you.

Your reading comprehension has clearly gone for a toss.

Responded in that thread 👆

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

Your reading comprehension has clearly gone for a toss.

Originally posted by Smurph
Responded in that thread 👆

https://imgur.com/a/im7O5

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're saying Batman aim blocked the bullet from point blank range here?

https://imgur.com/a/im7O5

Originally posted by Smurph
I think that's the best feat of the bunch but it still doesn't have trigger pull, then move. It has it all happen simultaneously. Which is why I think Cap's is a cut above.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So you didn't say it then? Come on, all you have to do is admit that you misspoke... can't do it can you?

I didn't say light is 800000 times faster than light like you did, dumbass.