Originally posted by leonidas
oh don't get me wrong lol i'm not implying there isn't a blatant double standard in the forum. several in the forum will consistently play up full capacity for one and while seeming to forget the full capacity rule extends to BOTH parties. but...i don't see that changing any time soon. lol
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
Originally posted by carver9
In fights from what we've seen, Superman doesnt hold a single advantage against Zod. Not one. You answered my question about Superman and Zod from a 10 ranking but youre avoiding a holding back Superman and Zod question. I wonder why.
Also, the rating applies to forum fights. In a forum fight, Superman gets all of his feats beyond just his fight with Zod, meaning he's stronger, faster, more durable, and so on. Holding back only lowers his attack strength, nothing else.
You're basically trying to be slick by ignoring all of Superman's feats and focusing only on his fight with Zod, then using that fight to apply faulty ABC logic.
That would mean his feat of casually walking around and having a long conversation in a fraction of a nanosecond doesn't count. Right?
Originally posted by h1a8
Again, ratings by themselves prove nothing about who wins. It's a waste of time to argue over them. I humored you to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it turns out I was right.Also, the rating applies to forum fights. In a forum fight, Superman gets all of his feats beyond just his fight with Zod, meaning he's stronger, faster, more durable, and so on. Holding back only lowers his attack strength, nothing else.
You're basically trying to be slick by ignoring all of Superman's feats and focusing only on his fight with Zod, then using that fight to apply faulty ABC logic.
That would mean his feat of casually walking around and having a long conversation in a fraction of a nanosecond doesn't count. Right?
You do know that if fts are fts, Doomsday doesnt stand a chance in hell of beating Hulk, right? The only reason Doomsday does well against Hulk is due to his fight against Superman, thats it. If we look at fts alone, Doomsday, Black Adam, Damage, The General, some of the JLA best villains gets one punch killed by Hulk. Thor would crush them as well. Heck, an argument can be made on Thor outright stomping Darkseid if we just use cheese fts. Doomsday is only relevant because of his fights with Superman. Nothing more, nothing less.
Originally posted by leonidas
oh don't get me wrong lol i'm not implying there isn't a blatant double standard in the forum. several in the forum will consistently play up full capacity for one and while seeming to forget the full capacity rule extends to BOTH parties. but...i don't see that changing any time soon. lol
Yeah, pretty much this.
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that if fts are fts, Doomsday doesnt stand a chance in hell of beating Hulk, right? The only reason Doomsday does well against Hulk is due to his fight against Superman, thats it. If we look at fts alone, Doomsday, Black Adam, Damage, The General, some of the JLA best villains gets one punch killed by Hulk. Thor would crush them as well. Heck, an argument can be made on Thor outright stomping Darkseid if we just use cheese fts. Doomsday is only relevant because of his fights with Superman. Nothing more, nothing less.
Originally posted by abhilegend
By feats Superman would one punch kill Thor, hulk and silver surfer at the same time. You wouldn't win a feat war with Superman.
Yes I would, lol. Most of you overexaggerate Superman's fts. Like I said, if we are using fts, Hulk would decimate Doomsday, and kill DOS Doomsday with a backhand.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, pretty much this.
This applies to you, weirdo 🤣🤣🤣. We literally had a debate not too long ago where you was arguing for DOS Doomsday saying he killed a powerful Superman which dictates how powerful Doomsday is. Troll of the highest order.
Originally posted by carver9
You do know that if fts are fts, Doomsday doesnt stand a chance in hell of beating Hulk, right? The only reason Doomsday does well against Hulk is due to his fight against Superman, thats it. If we look at fts alone, Doomsday, Black Adam, Damage, The General, some of the JLA best villains gets one punch killed by Hulk. Thor would crush them as well. Heck, an argument can be made on Thor outright stomping Darkseid if we just use cheese fts. Doomsday is only relevant because of his fights with Superman. Nothing more, nothing less.
Drawing blood from Superman, breaking his arm, and similar feats demonstrate immense power. It takes astronomical force to accomplish those things.
However, strength alone isn't what matters; speed is even more important, and durability plays a bigger than strength as well.
We can only scale a character based on the average portrayal of another character, since their performance varies at different times. That means Zod scales to Superman's average level unless Superman was performing at high-end levels specifically during his fight with Zod.
Lastly, if a character is stated or intended to be stronger than another, they inherit all of the weaker character's highest strength feats. For example, World War Hulk inherits all of Savage Hulk's strength feats, even though Savage Hulk has greater feats.
Originally posted by h1a8
Drawing blood from Superman, breaking his arm, and similar feats demonstrate immense power. It takes astronomical force to accomplish those things.However, strength alone isn't what matters; speed is even more important, and durability plays a bigger than strength as well.
We can only scale a character based on the average portrayal of another character, since their performance varies at different times. That means Zod scales to Superman's average level unless Superman was performing at high-end levels specifically during his fight with Zod.
Lastly, if a character is stated or intended to be stronger than another, they inherit all of the weaker character's highest strength feats. For example, World War Hulk inherits all of Savage Hulk's strength feats, even though Savage Hulk has greater feats.
Was Superman performing at high levels when he fought Doomsday? Remember, in the same book Superman got koed by pillars falling on him and an exploding gas station. So, was Superman at his best when he fought Doomsday?
Lastly, Zod was said to be Superman physical equal, AND his most dangerous foe. Does that place him at 10?
Hulk fts>>>>>>Doomsday fts. Do we agree that Hulk 1 punch kills him?
Originally posted by carver9
Was Superman performing at high levels when he fought Doomsday? Remember, in the same book Superman got koed by pillars falling on him and an exploding gas station. So, was Superman at his best when he fought Doomsday?Lastly, Zod was said to be Superman physical equal, AND his most dangerous foe. Does that place him at 10?
Hulk fts>>>>>>Doomsday fts. Do we agree that Hulk 1 punch kills him?
Originally posted by h1a8
Lastly, if a character is stated or intended to be stronger than another, they inherit all of the weaker character's highest strength feats. For example, World War Hulk inherits all of Savage Hulk's strength feats, even though Savage Hulk has greater feats.
Some incarnations of Doomsday are intended to be stronger than Superman, so those versions inherit all of Superman's highest feats, unless those feats occurred after Superman grew stronger following their encounters.
Make up your mind. You're essentially agreeing that Zod inherits all of Superman's high-end feats since they are described as physical equals. You can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by h1a8
Some incarnations of Doomsday are intended to be stronger than Superman, so those versions inherit all of Superman's highest feats, unless those feats occurred after Superman grew stronger following their encounters.Make up your mind. You're essentially agreeing that Zod inherits all of Superman's high-end feats since they are described as physical equals. You can't have it both ways.
So fts doesnt matter now when it comes to Doomsday? This is why I ask you the questions I ask you, because you flop sh** too much just to suit your character. Then youre asking me to make up my mind when you're literally giving Doomsday Superman fts. 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
Originally posted by carver9
So fts doesnt matter now when it comes to Doomsday? This is why I ask you the questions I ask you, because you flop sh** too much just to suit your character. Then youre asking me to make up my mind when you're literally giving Doomsday Superman fts. 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
Take a stance. What's your position? Do characters shown and intended to be stronger inherit all the high-end strength feats of weaker characters? I'm not going to argue with you about it - I'll respect your opinion.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're not understanding my point.It depends on the number of showings they have, total.
Billy has quite a few showings. So his feats need to be taken into account, more than his fights.
Gladiator does not (relative to Billy). So his fights count for much more than his feats. He is the same like Orion, who has even fewer showings still.
Hulk has TONS of showings. So his fights and feats are all equal(ish) in weighting.
IOW: if a character has very few appearances (LT, In-Betweener, Orion, Galactus) then their fights are a better gauge of their power.
The more showings a character has, and the more they start interacting with other characters, the more their fights get diluted. Lobo is a good example, as are the Lanterns. You yourself acknowledge, in team books Lobo is less impressive. Lanterns are terrible against bricks. That's when their feats become more of a gauge, where writers don't have to dilute them. Batman and Cap are also good examples of this.
Originally posted by carver9
This applies to you, weirdo 🤣🤣🤣. We literally had a debate not too long ago where you was arguing for DOS Doomsday saying he killed a powerful Superman which dictates how powerful Doomsday is. Troll of the highest order.
Nearly eight years ago, now.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nearly eight years ago, now.
Doomsday and Zod both have enough showings, and again, if Doomsday can get Superman showings, why not Zod? At the end of the day, Doomsday doesn't have the fts that proves he can beat Hulk. The only thing we can go by is his portrayal against Superman. If we are using just fts as an indication on how powerful a character is, Hulk would fold Doomsday. No disputing this. Thor would as well.
DoS Doomsday does? You specifically named DoS Doomsday, so what feats has he collected since then?
DoS Doomsday doesn't have many showings, he literally appears in one storyline, maybe more if you allow the stories before he met Superman. So yeah, his fights would hold more weight than his feats.
Superman around the time of DoS, despite being 'Byrne Superman', still had plenty of appearances - loads, actually. So I would judge Superman around that time based on his feats. And Doomsday - around that time - on his fights.
I mean, Daredevil probably has better bench pressing feats than Doomsday, even now lol. But would DD (Daredevil) beat DD (Doomsday) based on bench feats? No lol. We judge DD (Doomsday) based on fights, as he doesn't have as many showings still.