Fights are feats though, when they have relatively few showings. That's my logic.
When they start getting jobbed out, then their fights don't count as much because their fights become PIS. I've always been consistent on this.
You should stop trying to just argue against me and actually try and understand my points, tbh. Every time, you argue for the sake of arguing.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fights are feats though, when they have relatively few showings. That's my logic.
When they start getting jobbed out, then their fights don't count as much because their fights become PIS. I've always been consistent on this.You should stop trying to just argue against me and actually try and understand my points, tbh. Every time, you argue for the sake of arguing.
Shadow Dragon has few showings as well, but one of his showings consists of working Superman while the other was him being treated like fodder against Shiva.
Originally posted by h1a8
^Well one of those sounds like PIS. Which one do you believe is?
Shadow Dragon only has a couple of fts, so neither are PIS if we take what Dark said for granted. At the end of the day, neither Zod or Doomsday have as many showings as Superman and Hulk and both does extremely well and even beat Superman. So again, if fights are usable, Doomsday and Zod are Suoerman physical equal. If fights doesnt count, Doomsday gets one punch killed by Hulk.
Originally posted by carver9
Shadow Dragon only has a couple of fts, so neither are PIS if we take what Dark said for granted. At the end of the day, neither Zod or Doomsday have as many showings as Superman and Hulk and both does extremely well and even beat Superman. So again, if fights are usable, Doomsday and Zod are Suoerman physical equal. If fights doesnt count, Doomsday gets one punch killed by Hulk.
Originally posted by carver9
Shadow Dragon has few showings as well, but one of his showings consists of working Superman while the other was him being treated like fodder against Shiva.
Good showing for Shadow Dragon
Poor showing for Superman.
It's like Batman and WW - which I know you love. Good showing for Batman. Bad showing for WW. Simple.
The snake that choked Hulk out had a great showing. Hulk had a bad showing.
Welcome to comics.
Originally posted by carver9
Shadow Dragon only has a couple of fts, so neither are PIS if we take what Dark said for granted. At the end of the day, neither Zod or Doomsday have as many showings as Superman and Hulk and both does extremely well and even beat Superman. So again, if fights are usable, Doomsday and Zod are Suoerman physical equal. If fights doesnt count, Doomsday gets one punch killed by Hulk.
We also take context into account, though? Yes, Shadow Dragon worked Superman - but was Superman going at Full Capacity, though? This is why we can't just use random scans and respect threads - the context of the characters, the plot etc, all comes into play.
If in a fight, no context needed, just a straight all out brawl, Superman got worked over by Shadow Dragon, despite Superman going all-out, then yeah, it's a great showing for Shadow Dragon, and he is now one of the premium speedsters in all comics. He's now able to speedblitz Hulk, Thor, Superman, Surfer etc etc in a straight brawl.
What's that? Superman wasn't using his nanosecond-fighting-Flash-outspeeding-light speeds when fighting Shadow Dragon? Oh.....then it's suddenly not that great a speed feat for Shadow Dragon, is it, unless we can show Superman was going at his top speed.
If a racecar is going at 2mph, I can run faster than that. And if that same car doubles it's speed to 4mph, I'm still running faster than it.
Does it mean I am faster than a racecar's top speed?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We also take context into account, though? Yes, Shadow Dragon worked Superman - but was Superman going at Full Capacity, though? This is why we can't just use random scans and respect threads - the context of the characters, the plot etc, all comes into play.If in a fight, no context needed, just a straight all out brawl, Superman got worked over by Shadow Dragon, despite Superman going all-out, then yeah, it's a great showing for Shadow Dragon, and he is now one of the premium speedsters in all comics. He's now able to speedblitz Hulk, Thor, Superman, Surfer etc etc in a straight brawl.
What's that? Superman wasn't using his nanosecond-fighting-Flash-outspeeding-light speeds when fighting Shadow Dragon? Oh.....then it's suddenly not that great a speed feat for Shadow Dragon, is it, unless we can show Superman was going at his top speed.
If a racecar is going at 2mph, I can run faster than that. And if that same car doubles it's speed to 4mph, I'm still running faster than it.
Does it mean I am faster than a racecar's top speed?
Zod has consistently shown he is on Superman's level and could beat him. Doomsday has. Darkseid has. Damage has. The General has. They don't need to pull planets or lift a building to prove this, either.
Originally posted by carver9
Zod has consistently shown he is on Superman's level and could beat him. Doomsday has. Darkseid has. Damage has. The General has. They don't need to pull planets or lift a building to prove this, either.
...
What is it you think I am arguing here? I'm saying fights ARE feats, and that they count, just that with characters not used much (Zod/Darkseid/Doomsday) fights hold more weight than 'benching the earth' type feats. Then when characters start interacting more with the wider universe (Damage vs Batman, Damage vs Congorilla, Damage vs Poison Ivy) their fights start to hold less weight as they start getting jobbed out, and it is their feats (what you call 'space cheese', but is wrong) that start to hold more weight.
I don't see why you're calling me weirdo and a troll and getting your panties all twisted up.....it seems pretty reasonable?
I was agreeing that ratings mean nothing, and you agree as you say, weakness exploitation (and other contextual matters) exists. Just because A is a 5, and B is a 6, doesn't mean A can't beat 6. Ratings don't mean everything.
Doesn't seem that weird and trolling to me? After all, Batman is rated at a power level of 75, WW is 95, Superman is 100. Canon comics show this.
Originally posted by carver9
Shadow Dragon only has a couple of fts, so neither are PIS if we take what Dark said for granted. At the end of the day, neither Zod or Doomsday have as many showings as Superman and Hulk and both does extremely well and even beat Superman. So again, if fights are usable, Doomsday and Zod are Suoerman physical equal. If fights doesnt count, Doomsday gets one punch killed by Hulk.
Logically, one of them has to be PIS, unless there's some context you're not disclosing.
So, your stance is that if a character is shown to physically match another - barring PIS - they automatically gain access to all of that character's best feats in a forum fight?
If that's not your stance, then simply state your stance. How should strength feats be weighed against ABC logic?
Superman will have planetary strength in a forum fight.
Which one is correct:
Zod is equal to Superman but will not be operating at planetary strength in a forum.
Or Zod is equal to Superman and will also be operating at planetary strength in a forum fight.
Originally posted by h1a8
Logically, one of them has to be PIS, unless there's some context you're not disclosing.So, your stance is that if a character is shown to physically match another - barring PIS - they automatically gain access to all of that character's best feats in a forum fight?
If that's not your stance, then simply state your stance. How should strength feats be weighed against ABC logic?
Superman will have planetary strength in a forum fight.
Which one is correct:Zod is equal to Superman but will not be operating at planetary strength in a forum.
Or Zod is equal to Superman and will also be operating at planetary strength in a forum fight.
My argument is, Zod doesn't have to go around lifting buildings, moving at nanosecond speeds to prove his is Supermans equal when it's pretty freaking obvious. Same with Doomsday. He doesnt need to bench earth weights, or build a puzzle in less than a second or read every book in a library in less than 5 minutes for him to curb Superman every single time they fight. Zod is Supermans equal and Doomsday is more powerful than Superman without any of those fts.
Originally posted by carver9
My argument is, Zod doesn't have to go around lifting buildings, moving at nanosecond speeds to prove his is Supermans equal when it's pretty freaking obvious. Same with Doomsday. He doesnt need to bench earth weights, or build a puzzle in less than a second or read every book in a library in less than 5 minutes for him to curb Superman every single time they fight. Zod is Supermans equal and Doomsday is more powerful than Superman without any of those fts.
Then answer this question :
If Superman comes into a forum fight with planetary strength then
Which one is correct?
Zod is equal to Superman but will not be operating at planetary strength in a forum.
Or Zod is equal to Superman and will also be operating at planetary strength in a forum fight.
Originally posted by h1a8
Then answer this question :
If Superman comes into a forum fight with planetary strength then
Which one is correct?Zod is equal to Superman but will not be operating at planetary strength in a forum.
Or Zod is equal to Superman and will also be operating at planetary strength in a forum fight.
CIS is on, so Zod would probably start off wrecking Superman until Superman stops holding back. Zod would start off stronger due to CIS and Superman would eventually ramp up to his level. So both would be at planetary but Superman just a step behind.