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KMC Secret Wars! Eyes Only--You Know Who You Are...
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Smurph
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
PROBLEMS. WE HAS THEM.

Smurph, based on earlier examples, your example about Pym sound like amping to me. I guess, ask yourself this question: could Pym grow to those heights on his own? No. But could Jeffries manipulate adamantium on his own? Yes. One enhances the power, the other just adds a tool for the power to utilize.

Make sense? That may clear up a LOT for us.

thumb up

I actually think I'm narrowing in on my pick. I'll try and have all the scans I need by the weekend so I can start soon after we declare.

Northstar caps at lightspeed, or 99.9% lightspeed. He's always been a high meta I think, and so the original cap probably is fine.


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 03:45 AM
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Scoobless
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Did we say secret or public draft?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 06:32 AM
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Scoobless
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Ban GL rings, def not low Herald.
What about magic? Limit it? Ban it?
Speed? QS level seems fine to me, look what he did in the last X-Men movie with getting anywhere near lightspeed.

Any self limiting characters, ala Cable/Gambit should be banned.

Anything else?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 06:35 AM
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krisblaze
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Ban GL rings, def not low Herald.
What about magic? Limit it? Ban it?
Speed? QS level seems fine to me, look what he did in the last X-Men movie with getting anywhere near lightspeed.

Any self limiting characters, ala Cable/Gambit should be banned.

Anything else?

QS was going faster than lightspeed in the x-men movie, wasn't he?

Or maybe not...


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Last edited by krisblaze on Feb 4th, 2015 at 07:02 AM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 06:54 AM
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Scoobless
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by krisblaze
QS was going faster than lightspeed in the x-men movie, wasn't he?

Or maybe not...


Nah, everyone could be seen moving in very slow motion... also the bullets were still moving when he pushed them.

Not close to lightspeed, still too fast for a limited tourney though...???


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 09:20 AM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Existere
thumb up

I actually think I'm narrowing in on my pick. I'll try and have all the scans I need by the weekend so I can start soon after we declare.

Northstar caps at lightspeed, or 99.9% lightspeed. He's always been a high meta I think, and so the original cap probably is fine.


the only issue is that he's high meta because he's essentially human. add any sort of extra power and almost any lightspeeder could become mid herald. i'm not sure what to cap speed at tbh. we just need to make a decision and kinda work around it however we feel we can i guess.

and are we talking strictly travel speed here? reaction/thought/combat?

i wondered about magic as well scoob....


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Last edited by leonidas on Feb 4th, 2015 at 12:24 PM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 12:18 PM
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Scoobless
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I've not looked at a tier thread for a long time. Who represents the caps for drafting? High meta is around Namor-ish? What about Low Herald?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 01:59 PM
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Digi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Did we say secret or public draft?


I think public.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
Ban GL rings, def not low Herald.
What about magic? Limit it? Ban it?
Speed? QS level seems fine to me, look what he did in the last X-Men movie with getting anywhere near lightspeed.

Any self limiting characters, ala Cable/Gambit should be banned.

Anything else?


Sounds good to me. Is non-classic QS a lightspeed-er? I think if we use the eyeball test, we should be good. Probably no need to break it down to exact mph.

On magic, I think it should take care of itself. They need to be within the caps, and can't break any of the other rules concerning time or matter manipulation (or whatever else).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
the only issue is that he's high meta because he's essentially human. add any sort of extra power and almost any lightspeeder could become mid herald. i'm not sure what to cap speed at tbh. we just need to make a decision and kinda work around it however we feel we can i guess.

and are we talking strictly travel speed here? reaction/thought/combat?

i wondered about magic as well scoob....


I mean, even with additive and not multiplicative powers, we're still probably building mid heralds, yeah? If NS is lightspeed, I'm ok with a different cap, though. I was just brainstorming to try to find a new landing spot. QS should be good, whatever that means depending on classic or not. A lot of low heralds have good reactions too, and ridiculous flight speed. So even someone like QS isn't necessarily a game-killer.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Scoobless
I've not looked at a tier thread for a long time. Who represents the caps for drafting? High meta is around Namor-ish? What about Low Herald?


Yeah, Namor, Cpt. Britain, etc. Tony's newest stuff is now low herald, though, so we can't use him as a cap anymore.

For low herald, there's not really one person that makes a good cap. Just take a look for some general ideas:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577922.html


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Last edited by Digi on Feb 4th, 2015 at 05:23 PM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 05:14 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
I think public.



Sounds good to me. Is non-classic QS a lightspeed-er? I think if we use the eyeball test, we should be good. Probably no need to break it down to exact mph.

On magic, I think it should take care of itself. They need to be within the caps, and can't break any of the other rules concerning time or matter manipulation (or whatever else).



I mean, even with additive and not multiplicative powers, we're still probably building mid heralds, yeah? If NS is lightspeed, I'm ok with a different cap, though. I was just brainstorming to try to find a new landing spot. QS should be good, whatever that means depending on classic or not. A lot of low heralds have good reactions too, and ridiculous flight speed. So even someone like QS isn't necessarily a game-killer.



Yeah, Namor, Cpt. Britain, etc. Tony's newest stuff is now low herald, though, so we can't use him as a cap anymore.

For low herald, there's not really one person that makes a good cap. Just take a look for some general ideas:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577922.html


i've always considered mags the top of the low herald. if your guy can beat mags for a majority you've probably drafted too high...

so....are we allowing light speed then....?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 06:13 PM
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Digi
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Magneto is a solid choice for the absolute top of the tier.

We're dwelling on speed a ton. Clearly it's a hot-button issue. There will be an arms race for speed if we allow lightspeed. We're all "ok" with whatever, but it may be worth it to find something new. Modern QS is a time manipulator, so he's out. But wasn't there a period between Classic and the time BS where he was considerably faster? Maybe there's a compromise with him?

If that doesn't work, I'm happy to be done with it, and pick either lightspeed or classic QS. Which doesn't matter to me; flip a coin.

...

Also did some preliminary scouting. Removing the need to create a massive amp is...liberating. I may end up regretting some of my considerations, but it's opened up some possibilities in my drafting for characters that are powerful but don't necessarily lend themselves well to power mesh amps.

Still a lot of the same considerations as other tourneys, of course, but it may allow me to open up the playbook a bit, so to speak. Or be lazy and pick people I've debated with before. One of those. happy


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Last edited by Digi on Feb 4th, 2015 at 06:30 PM

Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 06:20 PM
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Smurph
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
the only issue is that he's high meta because he's essentially human. add any sort of extra power and almost any lightspeeder could become mid herald.
If they're tank-ish, that tends to be true- but a lot of Low Herald energy manipulators can turn into energy, and move at lightspeed. There's also Heralds at low herald, whose travel speed is considerably faster than lightspeed.

It doesn't really make a difference to me though.

If we want a lower cap than Northstar, we could look at Exiles Mimic who is 50% lightspeed? Modern Quicksilver is also ridiculously fast, but I don't have any sort of actual figure.


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 08:54 PM
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Digi
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Smurph makes a point about the fliers and those who turn into energy. I'm ok with whatever.

I just think current QS is bannable for other reasons, bc iirc correctly his powers still stem from time travel, not actual speed. Any version of him that's just a speedster should be fine. As would Mimic. And, at this point, as would Northstar, though anything near lightspeed makes it something we'll need to account for (which I'm ok with).


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 10:22 PM
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DarkSaint85
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In the tier, Jay Garrick is another speedster of note.

What about his cap sans Speedforce?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 11:27 PM
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leonidas
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i think jay has hit light speed though. i meant to raise the issue previously, but smurph reminded me. someone like monica rambeau can turn to light. i don't see why she shouldn't be allowed. does that mean we SHOULD allow light speed? my thought is the same as digi--don't want everyone trying to claim a speedster just in case someone else does. it is a conundrum. i think we have everything else we need. stupid speedsters, always muck things up. lol


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 11:31 PM
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DarkSaint85
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Without the SpeedForce? IIRC he couldn't. But, speed of sound would be a good power still, right?

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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 11:35 PM
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leonidas
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ahh....without you said. lol i should read more closely--i stopped at jay. embarrasment i was thinking about mach speed, but it's hard to gauge. and what about about someone like monica...?


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Old Post Feb 4th, 2015 11:47 PM
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Scoobless
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
ahh....without you said. lol i should read more closely--i stopped at jay. embarrasment i was thinking about mach speed, but it's hard to gauge. and what about about someone like monica...?


Travel speed and combat speed are completely separate discussions.

Someone like Monica can actually travel faster than light, but her combat reflexes (punching speed) are still base human.

Speed Demon, old QS, etc could only run around 1,000mph, but could punch hundreds of times in a couple of seconds.

I don't think anyone cares too much about the travel speed cap.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2015 03:20 AM
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Digi
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Speed of sound would suck balls with what we're about to do. A mild advantage against some, probably, but nothing more.

So I think here are our options:
1) Set a lower cap, and neuter picks like Monica
2) Set a lower cap, and disallow picks like Monica
3) Set the cap at lightspeed and be done with it
4) Ignore travel speed, focus on speedster reflexes (like Scoob's post above)

And the cap options are:
1) Lightspeed (Northstar, others)
2) 50% lightspeed (Mimic, others?)
3) Isotope E QS (~Mach 10)
4) Classic Jay (~Mach 1)

I'd probably vote for one of the middle two caps. Given characters like Monica, I don't feel pushed into a corner if it's set at lightspeed (even given the difference between travel and reactions), so as ever, it's not a huge issue for me either way.

...

Also, aside from this, we need to start making a list of other stuff that's been decided upon.


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Last edited by Digi on Feb 5th, 2015 at 03:27 AM

Old Post Feb 5th, 2015 03:24 AM
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Scoobless
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After the last mini tourney, let's ban indefinite self bfr


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2015 04:33 AM
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leonidas
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i think light speed travel is fine--thor can go multiples of light.... but that was what i was getting at. i don't want a blitz at light speed before i can react. if it can happen i want to be the one blitzing! lol

i think we're best leaving monica out, unless you want to say she has to enter the battlefield as human. that would give at least a chance to defend against a blitz. shields also would help. but being able to withstand 10 000 light speed punches might be a problem at this level....monica can't really do that though so the more i think on it, she should be fine...

i know the focus on speed has been annoying--it's just at this level speed really can be THE game-changer so let'd decide then make a list like digi said. this was never intended to be something that we were supposed to agonize over.


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Old Post Feb 5th, 2015 12:18 PM
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