My sister and I applied to be electricians and we both got hired to the same company. She was the smartest and most efficient apprentice in our entry group and the foremen would argue with each other over who got to have her on their jobsite. Despite that, she spent her three year career in the field getting relentlessly shit on by almost every apprentice and journeyman that we worked with. Hit on relentlessly, the butt of every sexual joke, groped and grabbed on. When she'd complain to the foremen and even the owner of the company they would tell her that it was just boys being boys and muh testosterone dude muh adrenaline from working all day. No one cared but me. I had to drive to a work site I wasn't even supposed to be at and threaten to kill a superior because he told my sister to her face that if she was his wife he'd knock her teeth out then **** her real good. We both hated the job and I ended up quitting about a year in. She stuck it out for two more years despite being treated like garbage every single day, but she quit when her coworkers started hanging black barbie dolls with little nooses around their necks in her work area.
The point of all this is to show that perhaps the reason why construction is so male dominated is because construction workers have a tendency to be extremely racist and sexist scumbags and the entire industry is basically 20 years behind the rest of society when it comes to civil rights. And it's not like I live in some god forsaken midwest shithole. We were in ****ing San Francisco of all places.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
its like words on the planet i live on, and the words on the planet u live on mean completly different things.
How do u get what u got from this.
OP- "I don't seem to see any people demanding gender diversity in these fields"
Me- u dont see them because u probably dont look.
Im not taking it literally that nobody in the history of time and space has ever made that argument. U should know that, since i never said anything close to it.
What i am taking literally, is that the OP hasnt seen said arguments.
I then showed some to him to prove that they're there if u just look.
Do u see the difference?
Example
Person A- ive never seen Tom Brady
Person B- thats probably because u dont watch any football
Surt- are u saying that in the history of time and space no one has ever watched football?
Why is one of the most liberal cities on the planet worse (from a racism and sexism perspective) than any city in Oklahoma from that 1950s?
Anyway, sounds terrible. It's also illegal. Crimes were committed. If what you said is true, I know you well enough to know that you know many of those are actual crimes. So why didn't you pursue these things as crimes?
Jesus, that sounds insane. I mean, I've been in some pretty "lowbrow" professions, like postal carrying, and saw some racism. But it was never anything remotely like this. It was more someone says something, gets overheard, there's a blowup, and it gets addressed. And that was rare. People generally tried to keep things upbeat and inclusive, to your face.
I wonder if reporting them would have helped? The department of justice, or the NAACP. Maybe talk to an activist lawyer?
I mean, I normally hate activists and lawyers, but that's completely unacceptable.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Current radical feminism isn't about equality or an egalitarian society. The pendulum has swung the way of satirical 60 cartoon portrayals of feminists.
Also, I never understood how you could stand for the emancipation of women and yet be so authoritarian? Why don't THEY become engineers and doctors and lawyers? It's always some "activist" (I still don't understand how these people make a living?) who are telling others to dedicate YEARS of their life's to enter a field they might not be interested in. Women, in general, are not as interested in STEM fields it seems. Whatever. Why do so many people care???
Becoming an engineer, a doctor, or a lawyer is a brutal goddamn sacrifice, that doesn't come with a healthy work-life balance or a very popular social life. In general, women find more value in these things. I don't blame them. They live longer in general, and enjoy life more. They have the right idea.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 24th, 2019 at 01:05 AM
Corporate Boards are elected by the shareholders in most cases. And they have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. How do you even go about implementing this?
This is never going to change. How will this possibly ever change? Guys shit on guys the most. Much worse than they shit on women. But women are easier pickings, and there is an undercurrent of sexual undertones in communication between a man and a female by virtue of them being opposite sexes. Obviously not all guys. Mostly the type of high-risk environments that attract less agreeable behaviour. Against, this is very general.
I still don't understand why this surprises people. You can't change this without implementing authoritarian thought police. "Equality" and freedom are incongruent.
You notice most of the garbage happens on college campuses?
There's usually a "head of equity" or some gender studies professor behind it, filling kids heads with Title IX this, oppression that. And the administration indulges them for that sweet, sweet government money.
Unless they complain about another department that makes money, like a certain conservative judge giving classes popular enough to sell out.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
I think you are on point in many of your observations about sexism in general but I find your point of view too fatalistic to be honest. A lot of social behaviours have changed over he centuries and boy clubs can eventually disapear as a large phenomena. Nobody is saying there are not going to be niches of guys keeping it between themselves in the whole world, but it can become statistically irrelevant over time.
And sadly boy clubs are an actual issue in certain professions. In France we had a recent reveal of a boys only group within one university for journalists. They proned to favor only men, mocked women openly and harrassed some female journalists with "jokes". How do you stop this without some explicit sanction being mentioned somewhere? Honest question. Journalists are meant to be well educated and don't come from popular backgrounds most of the time, these are guys who should know better.
Speaking of sexist bullshit, Kamala Harris has said she wants to decriminalize prostitution, but still make it a crime to pay for sex. So the hooker is treated as a victim and the "john" is a criminal. And she specifically references women too, so I don't know what she has in mind for male hookers, trannies, etc.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
It's not going to happen imo. Statistically speaking, the individuals on the extreme end of the distribution, the extremely intelligent, highly competitive, and work addicted human beings are like 9/10 men. This crackles through society at every level, creating boys clubs.
I don't think "boys clubs" are bad. Men should have spaces where they can interact only with other men, and some professions draw mostly men, which is fine. Modern media criticizes "men only" spaces which is sexist AF, because no matter what people tweet, men can only really act a certain way with other men around, and the same with women. That being said, that journalist club you mentioned seems to be toxic, and if they openly harrassed women, they should be held accountable.
I don't see how that will ever change. Statistically speaking, you will always get enclaves. It's impossible not to in a free society. What kind of laws would you put into place here? This is a club within a University. Are we going to start regulating who joins what in their spare time?
They were discovered, and they are in trouble. I'm assuming those who are harmfully sexist (A little sexism is healthy for either sex. This isn't Mao China. We aren't robots. You can't tell me I can't stare at a girls ass that walks by, or a female isn't allowed to check out my arms as I walk by.), and discriminatory actions against women should, and probably will face punishment. To me that is satisfactory.
There was a cafe in Australia that just went bankrupt the other day. They had a "man tax", charging men an extra 15%. They were vehemently sexist, and it was ironic seeing Trans-Men come in and complain about the serious hostility from "feminists". But like I said, now they are broke. Virtue signalling works on Twitter but it's a shit business model if you have openly oppose 50% of the population.
The systems we have in place are working. Sexism is bad, we all know it. Add in policies to make sexism against codes of conduct. But make it well-defined. When I hear sexual harassment, I don't even know what that word means anymore tbh.
Work to improve things by removing barriers to entry, but be careful with it. I think my main issue is that people expect.....perfection from other people? It's ridiculous. Nobody, not society or anyone, owes you a friction-free life. Life tends to suck sometimes. There will be issues, but that is the price you pay for freedom to do what you want: Idiots get the freedom to do what they want (Until they cross the line that impacts other people's rights).
People, and I think this especially true from the left than the right, suffer from uniformitarianism. That's not how things work. Society is fickle, and things change. Any law you put into place to "regulate" sexist environments can very easily be thrust upon the people you associate within a few years. People don't understand: Nature is an amoral MF, and if you create a system that potentially rewards tyranny, very quickly you get a tyrant. Regulation should be a dangerous, nuclear weapon, but people throw the word easily.
Would it surprise you to know that the 2008 financial crisis was heavily influenced by the Government? In the wake of the internet bubble and Enron, they implemented the Sarbon-Oxley act, outlawing mark-to-model pricing to mark-to-market pricing. It could never possibly go wrong.....except if the entire market starts crashing, and the mark-to-market pricing of assets works off of reference securities (Which are now only falling, so technically, everyone is going bankrupt at once! Even if the assets being valued as worthless have sound cash flows and are good investments). Or the government forcing banks to have riskier lending policies to avoid discriminating against low-income neighbourhoods that are mostly POC (In fear of Federal scrutiny). Well shit, those neighbourhoods were hit way worse by the 2008 crisis.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Apr 24th, 2019 at 03:55 PM
Forced diversity doesn't work. Education, however, does work. Whirly and I talked about this. Humans have a natural tendency to associate with people who look and talk like they do. But you can train children to not do that.
Forcing diversity on people, however, often has backlashes. Diversity Training and Sexual Harassment Training, at work, actually made attitudes and biases worse. That's weird...there are better ways to go about changing minds and biases, of course. And those should be pursued.
I agree with Bentley: your view is a bit too fatalistic. It's possible to make things change.
I think the more diverse people have around them, the better. The problem though is with diverse cultures, am I going to want someone I hold little in common with around my child. No! It's going to be naturally different around my next child regardless of what shade they come out, white, black or in between as their mother was raised a Muslim despite the fact her Islam is on the level of my Christianity... Nonexistent, her father who was a Judge was a Christian and mother is a Muslim, and we have five different passports between us. She is a rather lovely shade of brown, whereas I am pair almost blue-skinned north European lol.
Also that one restaurant that was charging men more than women is closing lol. Don't know why, but it's funny to me.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Lol those behind the restaurant have not said why. So we don't know if the place failed cuz of their sexism specifically. It could just be karma, but then again that would mean it's still cuz of their sexism in the end. Tee hee.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
I really just have no interest in what someone with no job, no education, no gf/wife, no property has to say on society when they aren't part of it. I know it seems harsh but, what's he done and where's he travelled? The guy's on disability and moans about people being given things. It makes me sad reading his posts and aggression to a world he will never know or be part of.
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Apr 23rd, 2019 10:48 PM
