Originally posted by Gideon
Enough, Rampant. Yoda wasn't attacking Count Dooku to his greatest capability, as demonstrated by his own words ("captured, Dooku must be"😉 and his actions later on the dark side world of Vjun. They're not close.
I never said they were. I merely felt that his logic was - and still is - fundamentally flawed.
Originally posted by GideonDoesn't change the fact that Yoda was "exhausted" - as evidenced by the Attack of the Clones novelization - after his first battle with the Count.
Enough, Rampant. Yoda wasn't attacking Count Dooku to his greatest capability, as demonstrated by his own words ("captured, Dooku must be"😉 and his actions later on the dark side world of Vjun. They're not close.
And S66's logic was awful. Ox was right to correct him.
Originally posted by Faunus
Doesn't change the fact that Yoda was "exhausted" - as evidenced by the Attack of the Clones novelization - after his first battle with the Count.And S66's logic was awful. Ox was right to correct him.
Well my logic comes from common sense. If you don't see my point than that means you lack common sense. If you can not see that "Yoda vs Sidious" was much more intense, and showed a greater display of the force, than "Yoda vs Dooku", than you must be blind.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Except it's not "logic" you're employing. It's meaningless observation with no basis in canon as explored by the accompanying novels and EU.
Well my logic comes from common sense. If you don't see my point than that means you lack common sense.
If you can not see that "Yoda vs Sidious" was much more intense, and showed a greater display of the force, than "Yoda vs Dooku", than you must be blind.Did I argue with this? No. Am I saying that Dooku is more powerful than Sidious? No.
But your methodology sucks. By your logic, Anakin vs. Obi-Wan was faster and more intense than Mace vs. Palpatine, because that's "what the movie shows."
The novels play in here, too, and the AotC novel describes an incredible display of skill and speed from the Count in his duel with Yoda, with the same applying for Mace and Palpatine in RotS, who were slow and drab in their movie duel, while the respective novel tells of an incredibly fast and furious battle.
Maybe you just don't understand how things work here, but that only goes so far.
The fight with Windu and Sidious did not look as fast, because they both did a lot of their own stunts in the movie, so there is a reason there. You can not say the same for Yoda, because Yoda had no one to play his stunts in his battle with Dooku or Sidious. So they made Yoda fight better with Sidious than with Dooku. It was also easy to see that the saber fight was longer. The display of the force was visibly greater.
Originally posted by Faunus
Doesn't change the fact that Yoda was "exhausted" - as evidenced by the Attack of the Clones novelization - after his first battle with the Count.'
What difference does that make? I hope you aren't confusing Yoda's rather lackluster stamina with an actual intent to kill or do harm. Unlike the Count, Yoda is a diminutive alien who has lived for nine centuries and is remarkably frail; he has to draw upon the Force in a far greater fashion to compete with someone like Dooku.
Furthermore, he is only described as "exhausted" after snatching the crane from crushing Kenobi and Skywalker, not because Dooku was so uber that he left Yoda in a wheezing heap.
And S66's logic was awful. Ox was right to correct him.
Not really, no. Count Dooku, despite his formidable skills and power in the Force, is no match for Yoda. He's not "close." Dooku was unable to defeat Yoda on a planet where he was empowered by the dark side of the Force and where Yoda was beset by distractions and hesitation to kill his former padawan.
Let's be realistic please. If Yoda were inclined to attack Dooku as he did Sidious in the Senate Rotunda, it wouldn't last that long at all.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66My logic was never that bad, and I've admitted and confirmed that I'm an ass several times.
The fight with Windu and Sidious did not look as fast, because they both did a lot of their own stunts in the movie, so there is a reason there. You can not say the same for Yoda, because Yoda had no one to play his stunts in his battle with Dooku or Sidious. So they made Yoda fight better with Sidious than with Dooku. It was also easy to see that the saber fight was longer. The display of the force was visibly greater.
Sidious destroys him while pondering just why Dount Cooku was suicidal enough to attack him.
This is really where Sidious puts Dookie in the place where it belongs.
He wipes his ass with the Makashit masters Lightning.
Why, why it is as about as difficult as taking a dump.
No, its more like cleansing your buttocks of fecal excrement.
What I'm trying to say is he is like this slug
Originally posted by GideonI don't recall saying that I disagreed, Gideon. Dark Rendezvous makes the gap between the two fairly apparent.
What difference does that make? I hope you aren't confusing Yoda's rather lackluster stamina with an actual intent to kill or do harm. Unlike the Count, Yoda is a diminutive alien who has lived for nine centuries and is remarkably frail; he has to draw upon the Force in a far greater fashion to compete with someone like Dooku.Furthermore, he is only described as "exhausted" after snatching the crane from crushing Kenobi and Skywalker, not because Dooku was so uber that he left Yoda in a wheezing heap.
Not really, no. Count Dooku, despite his formidable skills and power in the Force, is no match for Yoda. He's not "close." Dooku was unable to defeat Yoda on a planet where he was empowered by the dark side of the Force and where Yoda was beset by distractions and hesitation to kill his former padawan.
Let's be realistic please. If Yoda were inclined to attack Dooku as he did Sidious in the Senate Rotunda, it wouldn't last that long at all.
S66 using the movie speeds as a source instead of the novels is foolish in this instance, and that's what I was getting at.
Wow, brain dying now. No more thinking...
Originally posted by Faunus
I don't recall saying that I disagreed, Gideon. Dark Rendezvous makes the gap between the two fairly apparent.S66 using the movie speeds as a source instead of the novels is foolish in this instance, and that's what I was getting at.
Wow, brain dying now. No more thinking...
I wasn't comparing the speed at all. I was comparing the struggle. Even if i did compare the speed, it still would not be bad logic. If they were able to make him fight that fast with Sidious, than there is no excuse why they couldn't make him fight as fast with Dooku. They used the same exact technology for Yoda's performance.
There is an excuse why Sidious vs Windu looked much slower. It was because the actors did a lot of their own stunts, because Lucas wanted it to look more realistic.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66As true as that is, avoid making it an argument. You'll look like an ass if you do.
I wasn't comparing the speed at all. I was comparing the struggle. Even if i did compare the speed, it still would not be bad logic. If they were able to make him fight that fast with Sidious, than there is no excuse why they couldn't make him fight as fast with Dooku. They used the same exact technology for Yoda's performance.There is an excuse why Sidious vs Windu looked much slower. It was because the actors did a lot of their own stunts, because Lucas wanted it to look more realistic.
Originally posted by Darth Somebody
1. Yoda and Sidious were equal in saber combat. [B]I don't recall seeing Yoda outfighting or disarming Sidious or vice-versa. Every move Yoda made, Sidious countered. Every move. Same for Yoda. So don't go around saying that unless you have evidence, Darth Windu.2. If Yoda apparently could crush Dooku as many people say, and Sidious fought him to a standstill, then I would have to say Sidious could probably beat Dooku. If you say it would be difficult, then I s'pose that Dooku and Yoda and Sidious are all just about equal to one another. [/B]