Originally posted by jasofisc
GS i've seen those pics before and I couldn't stop laffing. is lienfield a christain? I expeshaly like how "jesus" took out herc with one hit.
I know. Its the funniest scene ive ever seen in a comic. It had me crying the first time i saw it. Its ridiculous lol. I dont have a clue about about Leinfields beliefs but id be surprised if he wasnt an atheist lol.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Leon you are so deluded. I have no personal vendetta against you. Have you thought that i might always post against you because more often than not the info in your posts is false 😉All your posts are just speculation, assumptions, your opinion basically on how you think things should be. Theres not any fact in the above.
At the end of the day all creation was threatened and Lucifer couldnt do a thing about it. Even his own creation was threatened and yet Lucifer couldnt do a thing about it. If he couldve he wouldve. He never.
Lucifers power went on a downward spiral when Presence left creation yet you feel that potentially he equates to his father? 😕
On top of that Lucifers power never fueled half of creation. His power wasnt necessary as stated by Yahweh himself. Neither of the brothers were necessary. Yahweh said his creation wouldve formed itself, he merely allowed the brothers to take part as HE made creation just so that they could learn and have practice in how to use their powers in preparation for when Yahweh would choose one of them to be his successor. Yahweh did all the work. They were his assistants.
To support that heres Lucifer while shaping his own creation saying how he'd never made a universe before:
Your whole understanding behind the brothers, their role and what theyre responsible for is flawed. Stop presenting your opinion as fact. Especially when your opinion is based on such a mess of an understanding. 🙁
its quite fast that u turn from silently denying posts to blatantly putting up FALSE, facts n denyin FACTS that ive given, ive given exact statement from the comics, not speculations, n only u deny them for their validity, other peope just argue behind the PURPOSE of the said thing. but u say its false, even if said in comics, not even pis or high end feats or anythin, just ridiculously denyin wats stated n quoted directly FROM the comics n covering it up with a long essay n hopin that sooner or later the person will give up n wont reply n ull be credited the winner, thas extremely cheap gs. and well for once, i will answer ur long ass n silly post
"At the end of the day all creation was threatened and Lucifer couldnt do a thing about it. Even his own creation was threatened and yet Lucifer couldnt do a thing about it. If he couldve he wouldve. He never."
beings like lucifer have been known to show no interest in mere things like creation, the dude got bored of being king of hell if u havent forgotten. ONE creation wwas threatened n it doesnt show that lucifer cudnt do anythin about it, if lucifer WAS shown being there n being unable to cope with anythin than ur statement wud be correct but he wasnt, this creation does not matter to him n thas a fact that cant be denied, it serves him no purpose watsoever, n he wudnt be worried about it. there is also , ABSOLUTELY nuthing to show that lucifer's own creation was threatened, not even a quote refering ot it, not a single one. lucifer's creation as stated bu himself n micheal was beyond the presence's n presence had no power over it as ive previously proven by quotes, it was lucifer's n the presence had no jurisdiction over it, lucifer was QUITE capable of controllinghis own creation outside god's without help so theres no argument that he wudnt be able to control or stop from crumbling god's creation, both creation are equal as has been shown.
"Lucifers power went on a downward spiral when Presence left creation yet you feel that potentially he equates to his father? 😕"
i never said they were equal, just that the presence wasnt infalliable, i told u that in the previous post n u wudnt repeat it unless u had personal reasons, oh n btw, this next statement of urs kinda refutes the one above
"he merely allowed the brothers to take part as HE made creation just so that they could learn and have practice in how to use their powers in preparation for [when Yahweh would choose one of them to be his successor]" the bracketed parts sorta DO give the impression that EITHER one of them cud compare.
"On top of that Lucifers power never fueled half of creation. His power wasnt necessary as stated by Yahweh himself. Neither of the brothers were necessary. Yahweh said his creation wouldve formed itself, he merely allowed the brothers to take part as HE made creation just so that they could learn and have practice in how to use their powers in preparation for when Yahweh would choose one of them to be his successor. Yahweh did all the work. They were his assistants."
nowhere has it been shown that yahweh did ANY work, nor that neither of the brothers were unnecessary, or that YAHWEH made creation, and SPECIALLY not that it was SUPPOSED to be practice for them, that is extremely far fetched ideas that have no base in comic dom, nuthin like that has been said. i am NOT aware of yahweh sayin that creation wudv formed itself{if i am than please give me scans of yahweh SAYING}
n NOWHERE is it even vaguely applied that they were his ASSISTANTS!
"To support that heres Lucifer while shaping his own creation saying how he'd never made a universe before:"
yes he never had made an entire universe/multiverse by HIMSELF, he had micheal to HELP him, this was his first shot being only HIMSELF. n even IF we go by ur wrong ASSISTANT way of thinking, lucifer wudnt have said that it was his FIRST shot, n be as unaware as he was shown, i mean after all, assistants observe/participate in/have training,
"Your whole understanding behind the brothers, their role and what theyre responsible for is flawed. Stop presenting your opinion as fact. Especially when your opinion is based on such a mess of an understanding"
it seems that it is UR understanding that is inherently flawed n i only stated FACTS, n told the simplest n easiest way to interpret them. ur smeer campain just shows ur true self.
{had to sleep, thas y i cudnt post srry}
Leon, GS is correct about everything, they never made a creation (well not The Presence's creation anyway), they merely guided it so it would become the creation it is today, and was told how to do that in Lucifer #39-40. The Presence didn't need them at all, everything would have happened anyway. the reason Lucifer and Michael was created was to take Gods place someday, there is only 3 beings that could of taken Gods place, Lucifer,Michael and Elaine, anyone else really wouldn't be what God intended but it would still come out the same way.
In the 2nd pic GS put up it is Yahweh/The Presence talking to Michael and Lucifer both. God told Eliane that she might become Him someday.
Originally posted by kevdude
Leon, GS is correct about everything, they never made a creation (well not The Presence's creation anyway), they merely guided it so it would become the creation it is today, and was told how to do that in Lucifer #39-40. The Presence didn't need them at all, everything would have happened anyway. the reason Lucifer and Michael was created was to take Gods place someday, there is only 3 beings that could of taken Gods place, Lucifer,Michael and Elaine, anyone else really wouldn't be what God intended but it would still come out the same way.In the 2nd pic GS put up it is Yahweh/The Presence talking to Michael and Lucifer both. God told Eliane that she might become Him someday.
your making the same argument gs is n not doin a much better job, ive addressed exactly these points in my post, read it{oh n yea btw even though i never said lucifer was compaeable to the presence n gs said it to make me look bad, if ur part of the story is true, WUDNT that mean that lucifer infact IS compareable to god seein as he might BE the next god and always was made as a SUCCESOR in the mind of god, wudnt that prove GS's argument of lucifer being yahweh's CREATION n thus always being significantly underneath him, completely WRONG?}
At the end of the day Leon the facts are up there. You have provided no on panel evidence be it quotes or scans. You've just posted your interpretation of events in comics, your opinion on how you think things are. In face of whats stated in the scans clear as day your opinion just doesnt cut it.
As stated clearly in the scans Lucifer and Michael were unneccessary. Yahweh states that in the scans, he says he didnt need them, that creation would've have formed without them. Yahwehs power made them and creation possible, he just allowed them to take part in the making of creation as a way of teaching them how to use their god given power. It was an exercise to prepare them for the future where they would possibly take over from him if he stepped down, however readers of Lucifer have seen that the brothers never lived up to their potential and creation was passed over to Elaine instead. Lucifer and Michael never created the DC/Vertigo creation as stated they aided Yahweh in doing so.
Supporting that you have Lucifer while shaping his own creation saying not only that he had never made a universe before, but that last time round he merely watched as it was done. Its all stated its really not debatable. Sorry mate.
Oh and in the end Lucifers creation was also threatened Leon. And there was not a thing he could do about it.
He tried to stop Fenris plans because they threatened not only Yahwehs creation but also his own but in the end he got mind raped, he attacked his brother instead of fighting Fenris and he and his brother failed:
In the end all creations were threatened:
For someone who is beyond a mere universe who is i quote "known to show no interest in mere things like creation" not only do my scans show him looking awfully concerned, but he also tries to put a stop to the end of creation and he fails. And all of this because the brothers powers are derived from Yahweh and without him they arent the forces they would otherwise be.
Oh and your poor attempt to explain Lucifers comments about not making a universe is moot. Lucifers creation was a joint effort between him and Michael as well so trying to say he meant that he'd never made a universe on his own before still doesnt cut it. What it means is that Yahwehs creation was formed by Yahweh and the brothers assisted him. Lucifer even says first time around he merely watched as all the work was done. Its all there on panel. I suggest you have another read because either youre suffering from fanboy delusions or the comic is way over waaaay over your head.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
your making the same argument gs is n not doin a much better job, ive addressed exactly these points in my post, read it{oh n yea btw even though i never said lucifer was compaeable to the presence n gs said it to make me look bad, if ur part of the story is true, WUDNT that mean that lucifer infact IS compareable to god seein as he might BE the next god and always was made as a SUCCESOR in the mind of god, wudnt that prove GS's argument of lucifer being yahweh's CREATION n thus always being significantly underneath him, completely WRONG?}
No it doesnt Leon because to reach that potential they would have had to have sat on the Primum mobile and accepted their birthrights. Yahweh wouldve then relinquished his position as supreme being to them. However in the end it was Elaine who accepted her birthright and so Yahweh chose to pass on his power and position to her.
As it stands Lucifer and Michael are creations of god, his most special ones who were created to potentially be his successors. However for them to be on par with God they wouldve had to have sat on the Primum mobile after God had stepped down and accepted their birthright and all the responsibilities being God entails. At that moment Yahweh wouldve passed on all his power and position to the one who did that. Lucifer or Michael never did this, Elaine did it in the end. Without having done this they are now and forever will be second to God. Yes they were created to be his successors however that ritual was required for them to reach that potential. They never had that power from the offset. Now they never will have such power because Elaine is now the supreme being and the Lucifer series (now at #70) finishes at #75 😄
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day Leon the facts are up there. You have provided no on panel evidence be it quotes or scans. You've just posted your interpretation of events in comics, your opinion on how you think things are. In face of whats stated in the scans clear as day your opinion just doesnt cut it.As stated clearly in the scans Lucifer and Michael were unneccessary. Yahweh states that in the scans, he says he didnt need them, that creation would've have formed without them. Yahwehs power made them and creation possible, he just allowed them to take part in the making of creation as a way of teaching them how to use their god given power. It was an exercise to prepare them for the future where they would possibly take over from him if he stepped down, however readers of Lucifer have seen that the brothers never lived up to their potential and creation was passed over to Elaine instead. Lucifer and Michael never created the DC/Vertigo creation as stated they aided Yahweh in doing so.
Supporting that you have Lucifer while shaping his own creation saying not only that he had never made a universe before, but that last time round he merely watched as it was done. Its all stated its really not debatable. Sorry mate.
Oh and in the end Lucifers creation was also threatened Leon. And there was not a thing he could do about it.
He tried to stop Fenris plans because they threatened not only Yahwehs creation but also his own but in the end he got mind raped, he attacked his brother instead of fighting Fenris and he and his brother failed:
For someone who is beyond a mere universe who is i quote "known to show no interest in mere things like creation" not only do my scans show him looking awfully concerned, but he also tries to put a stop to the end of creation and he fails. And all of this because the brothers powers are derived from Yahweh and without him they arent the forces they would otherwise be.
Oh and your poor attempt to explain Lucifers comments about not making a universe is moot. Lucifers creation was a joint effort between him and Michael as well so trying to say he meant that he'd never made a universe on his own before still doesnt cut it. What it means is that Yahwehs creation was formed by Yahweh and the brothers assisted him. Lucifer even says first time around he merely watched as all the work was done. Its all there on panel. I suggest you have another read because either youre suffering from fanboy delusions or the comic is way over waaaay over your head.
Excatly, God only allowed them to create our multiverse to teach them using their powers, which God gave them, but he could have done by himself easily. Brothers created Multiverse, where God rules, still God has the power over everything (even though brothes created it, partailly). That automatocly means, when Lucifer himself created his own Universe (also with brother help, when Micheal died), that immediately mean that The Presence has the power over his craetion also. If he would chose to destroy Lucifer Multiverse, he would do it easily.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
never will have such power because Elaine is now the supreme being and the Lucifer series (now at #70) finishes at #75 😄
And where is Yahweh now?
Originally posted by XplosiveHe gave it to Elaine a couple issues ago, and walked off.
Excatly, God only allowed them to create our multiverse to teach them using their powers, which God gave them, but he could have done by himself easily. Brothers created Multiverse, where God rules, still God has the power over everything (even though brothes created it, partailly). That automatocly means, when Lucifer himself created his own Universe (also with brother help, when Micheal died), that immediately mean that The Presence has the power over his craetion also. If he would chose to destroy Lucifer Multiverse, he would do it easily.And where is Yahweh now?
well Michael and Lucifer could have saved the universe's if they wanted, Michael didn't care until Lucifer got him to care more and then he was taking steps to save creation without him or Lucifer sitting on the Throne. Lucifer could have sat on the Throne many times to save the universe's but he didn't because he didn't care to save his fathers creation, he only cared when it was his creation threatened, and he did everything to make sure Elaine would take his place at the Throne.
God is outside Creation.
Michael and Lucifer together make God's total power, demiurge and will, Max at full potential has both, God's total power, not just to create but destroy or whatever else he wishes.
Lucifer and Michael were created to be Yahwehs successors. At full potential they would be the supreme beings just like Elaine has become recently in the Lucifer series. The brothers win.
For what I understand Michael and Lucifer didn't merely create a universe they created Creation itself...or am I wrong...
The brothers will reach full potential by taking on the mantle of supreme being. Its their destiny or at least it was prior to Elaine. (Michaels daughter) Only one of them was going to become the supreme being and helping God make creation was just a lesson for them, preparation for that role. In Lucifer 39 we found out that God had initially chosen Lucifer for the role.
The Forum Vs. Rules states that in battles characters are at their full potential and blood lusted, thus Michael and Lucifer are at their full potential by taking up the mantle of the supreme being. Elaine (Michael's Daughter) surpasses both of them at the momment, she at the momment has taken the role of the pressence to what I understand; but if Michael and Lucifer were combined into one and took up the mantle, they might surpass everything that has ever been shown or will be shown in Vertigo Comics.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Excatly, God only allowed them to create our multiverse to teach them using their powers, which God gave them, but he could have done by himself easily. Brothers created Multiverse, where God rules, still God has the power over everything (even though brothes created it, partailly). That automatocly means, when Lucifer himself created his own Universe (also with brother help, when Micheal died), that immediately mean that The Presence has the power over his craetion also. If he would chose to destroy Lucifer Multiverse, he would do it easily.And where is Yahweh now?
Im so drunk right now so whatever i say now might be completely different tp what i say 2morrow. God allowed them to participate in the creation of the univefse. Thats all. The multiverse wasnt created by god that was an after effect. It was created by Krona in Crisis on Infinitr eaths.
Oh **** it it. U lot are sober right now. Have some f*cking common sense and read what ivev posted b4, look at all the comics ive referenced.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The multiverse wasnt created by god that was an after effect. It was created by Krona in Crisis on Infinitr eaths.
The Vertigo comics say otherwise. Which is why I and several others just tend to ignore Krona's role.
DC Universe history and Vertigo history clash in alot ways though...
