Marka Ragnos

It is easier if you are caught of guard to defend againts melee users then it is to defend against blaster wielders. All that the clones had to do were to stand back and shoot them as soon as the order was made. The Massasi had to move in with their blades and attck and can't have been too hard to sense. The time it took them to attack the sith lords should have been enough to sense the attck and defend against it. I'd also like to point out that the jedi were fighting in battle at the time. As was Revan. Plus it was only really the knights, padawans and students who went down without a fight. And the clones were also much more skilled then the Massasi. The clones would have been more effective aginst the suth lords then the Massas.

Originally posted by zod360
It is easier if you are caught of guard to defend againts melee users then it is to defend against blaster wielders. All that the clones had to do were to stand back and shoot them as soon as the order was made. The Massasi had to move in with their blades and attck and can't have been too hard to sense. The time it took them to attack the sith lords should have been enough to sense the attck and defend against it. I'd also like to point out that the jedi were fighting in battle at the time. As was Revan. Plus it was only really the knights, padawans and students who went down without a fight. And the clones were also much more skilled then the Massasi. The clones would have been more effective aginst the suth lords then the Massas.

My god...

okay first of all the Sith Lords were also fighting a battle or were retreating or organising things they were bussy. They would not have sensed the Massassi doing anything until the first one would have drawn its blade in which case it was already to late. You don't go around reading the emotions of people around you when you trust them and have done so for a very long time. Especially not if you have more important things to do. Nobody has ever done that. Nobody, not Jedi not Sith nobody. Besides its very easy to hide your emotions from the people around you. Atton managed to do it, by playing Pazaak in his mind or remembering hyperspace routes... Its not that hard to do.

The Massassi are also far greater then clones, do you think a clone could stand up against a Jedi in a sword fight? They wouldn't stand a chance, the Massassi could and often did kill Jedi in fights. You had sith Lords being betrayed by beings as powerful as Jedi.

"The Massassi are also far greater then clones, do you think a clone could stand up against a Jedi in a sword fight? They wouldn't stand a chance, the Massassi could and often did kill Jedi in fights. You had sith Lords being betrayed by beings as powerful as Jedi."

But clones don't use melee weapons. They are as effective as Massasi. Obviously not in melee fights. And Massasi suck. Sylvar was able to kill a few of Exar Kun's more powerful ones without need of a lightsaber. They are nthing special. Clones would be able to deal with jedi better then Massasi.

BTW did Memit Nadill feature in any comics after the ones' with Sadow and Kressh.

Originally posted by zod360
"The Massassi are also far greater then clones, do you think a clone could stand up against a Jedi in a sword fight? They wouldn't stand a chance, the Massassi could and often did kill Jedi in fights. You had sith Lords being betrayed by beings as powerful as Jedi."

But clones don't use melee weapons. They are as effective as Massasi. Obviously not in melee fights. And Massasi suck. Sylvar was able to kill a few of Exar Kun's more powerful ones without need of a lightsaber. They are nthing special. Clones would be able to deal with jedi better then Massasi.

Clones use blasters...

Put them against a Jedi that knows what he's doing and they are dead. Put a few Massassi against them and you have one dead Jedi.

Sylvar was already angry and had really sharp claws that cut the Massassi down. Besides Kun his Massassi were weaker then those that Sadow had.

A good enough jedi would take out a few Massasi. And the Massasi in Dark Lord of the sith are stronger then the Massasi in the fall of the sith empire. It says in DLOTS that Naga Sadow made them stronger through alchemy to guard his legacy on Yavin 4, implying that he made them stronger once he had arrived on Yavin 4 which takes place after Fall of the Sith Empire. Hence the Massasi in DLOTS are stronger then the Massasi in FOTSE. As I said before the jedi that were killed by clones were in the heat of battle. The sith lords were sitting peacefully in their ships. The jedi were ambushed by many clones. the sith lords were ambushed by a few Massasi. The jedi had less time to sense the attack then the sith lords. The Massasi were as weak as hell.

Adding on the fact that Sylvar killed a few Massasi which were stronger then the ones in FOTSE without a lightsaber. And a few weaker Massasi were able to kill the sith lords. All this suggests that even Sylvar would probably be able to contend with a great sith lord in the time of Naga Sadow and Kressh.

These sith lords were likely in the circle of sith lords at Marka Ragnos' funeral - there were twenty (I got this info from one of the KOTORs). Face it the ancient sith were not that "godlike".

Numan fanboyism will not put Kotor Characters above the Ancient Sith, there really is no point arguing with you, you cannot debate.
When we rebutt you, you don't rebutt back, instead you ignore it and add in a new point, moreso an speculation or assumption.

In your 3 posts, not one of the is supported with solid proof, you have not refuted the quote of starwars.com stating Ragnos to be the Strongest of his time, inclusive of Kressh, Sadow and Simus, you have not refuted that Sadow has conjured up the ability to summon illusions that can kill, you have not refuted the fact that Sadow can blow up a star with the power of the dark side. Put into context, no Sith after the Ancients had that power, and every major power in Kotor, originated from the Ancient Sith, including the instakills.

Numan until you provide solid quotes and feats put into context, your speculation and assumptions are moot.

A good enough jedi would take out a few Massasi. And the Massasi in Dark Lord of the sith are stronger then the Massasi in the fall of the sith empire. It says in DLOTS that Naga Sadow made them stronger through alchemy to guard his legacy on Yavin 4, implying that he made them stronger once he had arrived on Yavin 4 which takes place after Fall of the Sith Empire. Hence the Massasi in DLOTS are stronger then the Massasi in FOTSE. As I said before the jedi that were killed by clones were in the heat of battle. The sith lords were sitting peacefully in their ships. The jedi were ambushed by many clones. the sith lords were ambushed by a few Massasi. The jedi had less time to sense the attack then the sith lords. The Massasi were as weak as hell.

Numan stop tripple posting, edit your posts for gods sake.. You know how to do it because you edited your first post, and 15 minutes haven't past yet. But to deal with your stupid speculation.

the Dark Lords were bussy with other things and wouldn't be going around sensing the minds of those that were loyal to them. The Massassi were standing next to the Sith Lords, so once they got the order all they had to do was draw the blade and stab.

The clones had to open fire first, and guess what sometimes the Jedi had time to turn around and fight back and they still died. The Sith Lords did not have that chance, they were slaughtered stabbed in the back by the people they had trusted in literally a second. It isn't like the Massassi had to walk over to their lords with their weapons drawn they were standing right next to them. And there were many Massassi on board each ship seeing as the ship was piloted by them.

The Sith Lords also had other things to pre-occupy their mind with, and the Massassi should have been able to hide their feelings from their masters.

Adding on the fact that Sylvar killed a few Massasi which were stronger then the ones in FOTSE without a lightsaber which killed a sith lord. All this suggests that Sylvar would probably be able to contend with a great sith lord in the time of Naga Sadow and Kressh.

The Massassi Sylvar killed were called primitives compared to the weaker one's Sadow had, if you think otherwise show a scan. And she stil had her claws and teeth to kill them with, those are lethal weapons.

These sith lords were likely in the circle of sith lords at Marka Ragnos' funeral - there were twenty (I got this info from one of the KOTORs). Face it the ancient sith were not that "godlike".

WTF does this have to do with anything? What does it even mean what are you implying?

Originally posted by zod360
"The Massassi are also far greater then clones, do you think a clone could stand up against a Jedi in a sword fight? They wouldn't stand a chance, the Massassi could and often did kill Jedi in fights. You had sith Lords being betrayed by beings as powerful as Jedi."

But clones don't use melee weapons. They are as effective as Massasi. Obviously not in melee fights. And Massasi suck. Sylvar was able to kill a few of Exar Kun's more powerful ones without need of a lightsaber. They are nthing special. Clones would be able to deal with jedi better then Massasi.

Yet again more speculation. Whereas people have provided quotes and context giving the information of why someone would win, or why something is superior to another, you have given us just a pure opinion, except instead of stating so, you say its fact.

Prove up. I have provided you with adequate sources, however you chose to ignore them then thats your problem, face it, you have lost this debate.

Why don't you follow your own advice Woot. You must be stupid if you actually believe what you are saying. And I have rebutted your points that you mentioned. I am showing that the ancient sith really were not that incredible, so Ragnos being the most powerful out of all of them (and there is not even prood that he is the MOST powerful) does not mean that he is THE most powerful force user ever. But you seem to have ignored everything I said. And Aleema was able to summon illusions that could affect the reality physically. You seem to have ignored my previous point about sith magic only increasing one's power with the force, and not control. And there is not even proof that the instant kills originated from the ancient sith.

And Fishy, the sith lords were way less preoccupied then the jedi were when they got ambushed. And don't even try to prove that the Massasi were able to attack the sith before the clones were able to attack the jedi. And no fishy, the massasi in DLOTS were stronger then the Massasi in FOTSE. I have already proven this. And the thing about the sith lords at the funeral shows that they were in the same league as people like Sadow and Kressh.

Originally posted by w00t2112
Yet again more speculation. Whereas people have provided quotes and context giving the information of why someone would win, or why something is superior to another, you have given us just a pure opinion, except instead of stating so, you say its fact.

Prove up. I have provided you with adequate sources, however you chose to ignore them then thats your problem, face it, you have lost this debate.

I just showed that your "adequate sources" do not show that Ragnos was the most powerful force user. And you have just ignored the posts in which I have provided an explanation.

Originally posted by zod360
And Fishy, the sith lords were way less preoccupied then the jedi were when they got ambushed. And don't even try to prove that the Massasi were able to attack the sith before the clones were able to attack the jedi. And no fishy, the massasi in DLOTS were stronger then the Massasi in FOTSE. I have already proven this. And the thing about the sith lords at the funeral shows that they were in the same league as people like Sadow and Kressh.

No you have stated it and you just claim its true, provide a scan. I have no reason to believe anything you say.

and the massassi were able to attack the Sith better then the clones the Jedi, for one they were force sensitive so they knew about the force, they likely knew how to hide their emotions from the Sith Lords and they were standing right next to them.

The clones had none of this, sometimes the Jedi had time to react and they still died the Sith Lords did not have this. And being at the funeral means jack shit, first of all we don't see anybody sitting in a circle or whatever. Second of all Coleman Trebor was on the council, he was killed in three shots does that mean Yoda could be killed by Jango in three shots? No it doesn't, and then you have the very simple fact that Sadow and Kressh were far more powerful then those guys.

I know but that proves that the race were not as "godlike" as you say. I wasn't denying that Sadow was leagues above them in terms of power.

Why would I lie? IKC or Illustrious would show that I was lying straight away and I would lose credibility.

What credibility? You have none... And show scans

and it doesn't prove anything, i'm glad you agree with the rest of my post though. And start using the edit button already.

I do not agree with the rest of your posts.

Then adress the post instead of ignoring it.

You don't win an argument by ignoring what other people say.