RotJ Luke vs Count Dooku. · Star Wars Versus Forum

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

All I got from those links were "File Not Found"

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

Crap, well, then go to the Luke's Skill thread in the EU section, it has all the same links, minus one that I forgot. Still, you'll get the point.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Okay. Yeah Luke would defeat the count.

overlord OD'd

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Crap, well, then go to the Luke's Skill thread in the EU section, it has all the same links, minus one that I forgot. Still, you'll get the point.

You'll have to copy the actual source instead of the shortened version displayed in the thread. Here, I'll do it:

These are before ESB happens, also, and Luke is still pretty good.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=12&f=34&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_34
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=20&f=26&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_26
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=15&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

Also, a left over clone, who has seen Jedi fight, called Luke a Jedi. Take that for what you will, also.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=23&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

Thanks!

This is the one I left out: http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=8&f=40&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_40

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by jollyjim311
[B]Luke does have the skill. He was an expert with a lightsaber from when he first laid hands on it.

He was a natural with a lightsaber I think you mean. You dont just pick up a saber and become a master, no matter what your heritage was.

Through his training with Ben and Yoda, he has learned how to harness his natural strength.

Strength yes, but not so much skill. While he did learn the basics from Ben and Yoda he didnt learn nearly enough to put him on the level of an 80 year old master.

As far as the lightsaber forms go, form V has a good edge over Makashi.

I will agree because it has great physical strength which Makashi has difficulty to block. But Luke has never fought a Makashi practicioner, he doesnt have a clue how to fight Dooku. He will hack away at Dooku with no real skill and the Count will just wait for the inevitable mistake to deliver the killing blow.

You also need to take EU into account. If we went solely by what the films had, Mace was a horrible duelist. So was Maul. At one point in the duel between Obi and Anakin, they were swinging their lightsabers around like batons and either could have just stabbed the other. The approved EU that doesn't contradict the movies also counts.

Whats your point??

Also, a left over clone, who has seen Jedi fight, called Luke a Jedi. Take that for what you will, also.

Not really that important. If you base your argument on that quote I could say that Dooku is 'more powerful than any jedi' because of what he says to Yoda.

Luke is able to show his skills with the force in ROTJ when he effortlessly subdues two guards, lifts C-3p0 in the air, and when he performs a mind trick.

That is nothing compared to what Dooku has shown. Dooku has ripped down rooves, pulled out steel balconies, lifted a jedi master while fighting someone else, can use force lightning, can block force lightning with his hands etc.

Luke shows us two great fights against Vader.

Dooku wtf pwned Kenobi twice, wtf pwned Anakin once and stalemated Yoda. And this is only in the movies, not including EU.

Luke takes out around 20ish mercenaries of Jabba's best mercenaries on Jabba's sail barge

True, but you have to admit that the mercanaries were pretty sh*t fighters. And he got shot in his hand wielding the saber. Had that been his organic hand he would have been disarmed.

and had Boba Fett beat.

Hardly.

Vader comments that Lukes "Skills are complete" in ROTJ.

Dooku says "I have become more powerful than any jedi", but this doesnt make it true.

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

Originally posted by Rampant ox
He was a natural with a lightsaber I think you mean. You dont just pick up a saber and become a master, no matter what your heritage was.
Strength yes, but not so much skill. While he did learn the basics from Ben and Yoda he didnt learn nearly enough to put him on the level of an 80 year old master.
I will agree because it has great physical strength which Makashi has difficulty to block. But Luke has never fought a Makashi practicioner, he doesnt have a clue how to fight Dooku. He will hack away at Dooku with no real skill and the Count will just wait for the inevitable mistake to deliver the killing blow.
Whats your point??
Not really that important. If you base your argument on that quote I could say that Dooku is 'more powerful than any jedi' because of what he says to Yoda.
That is nothing compared to what Dooku has shown. Dooku has ripped down rooves, pulled out steel balconies, lifted a jedi master while fighting someone else, can use force lightning, can block force lightning with his hands etc.
Dooku wtf pwned Kenobi twice, wtf pwned Anakin once and stalemated Yoda. And this is only in the movies, not including EU.
True, but you have to admit that the mercanaries were pretty sh*t fighters. And he got shot in his hand wielding the saber. Had that been his organic hand he would have been disarmed.
Hardly.
Dooku says "I have become more powerful than any jedi", but this doesnt make it true.

I hardly see what my heritage has to do with this... sorry. Saberwork came natural to him. This doesn't mean he was an instant master, it just means that he learned a helluva lot in a very short period of time.

He learned the basics from Ben, and had intense training from Yoda. He learned a lot himself, also.

He has fought in duels, however, and when he finds out he can use his strength to an advantage, he sure will.

My point is that you need to consider the EU here, too.

There is a difference between Dooku being arrogant and Vader being impressed by Luke.

Lukes training under Yoda and Ben have taught him to harness his natural power. Without making any hand gestures and no apparent strain, Luke was able to lift C-3p0 into the air for an extended period of time, make him move, and keep him there. If he were to use his powers in short, powerful bursts such as pushes, I'm sure he could do the same.

That is impressive, and Dooku is very powerful. However, EU does little to enhance his reputation as a combatant, and Anakin and Kenobi as or AOTC are both below Luke. ROTS Obi Wan was forced into offensive lightsaber combat and was caught off guard, and Yoda had him beat. Also, Luke beat Vader, Dooku's superior.

The mercenaries were worthy to escort Jabba, and had Boba Fett among their ranks. Also, an artificial hand is a positive, then.

Well, he did have Boba's gun cut in half and could have chopped him down, but he had other things to worry about.

To repeat myself, that is just Dooku being arrogant.

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I hardly see what my heritage has to do with this... sorry. Saberwork came natural to him. This doesn't mean he was an instant master, it just means that he learned a helluva lot in a very short period of time.
He learned the basics from Ben, and had intense training from Yoda. He learned a lot himself, also.
He has fought in duels, however, and when he finds out he can use his strength to an advantage, he sure will.
My point is that you need to consider the EU here, too.
There is a difference between Dooku being arrogant and Vader being impressed by Luke.
Lukes training under Yoda and Ben have taught him to harness his natural power. Without making any hand gestures and no apparent strain, Luke was able to lift C-3p0 into the air for an extended period of time, make him move, and keep him there. If he were to use his powers in short, powerful bursts such as pushes, I'm sure he could do the same.
That is impressive, and Dooku is very powerful. However, EU does little to enhance his reputation as a combatant, and Anakin and Kenobi as or AOTC are both below Luke. ROTS Obi Wan was forced into offensive lightsaber combat and was caught off guard, and Yoda had him beat. Also, Luke beat Vader, Dooku's superior.
The mercenaries were worthy to escort Jabba, and had Boba Fett among their ranks. Also, an artificial hand is a positive, then.
Well, he did have Boba's gun cut in half and could have chopped him down, but he had other things to worry about.
To repeat myself, that is just Dooku being arrogant.

You present a good argument and I see where you are coming from. But lets just agree to disagree. IMHO Dooku would win. And this isnt my fanboy side talking. And you obviously arent going to change your views. So we should just agree to disagree...

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

Wow, that's very reasonable of you, Rampant. We both have our own reasons to believe what we do, I suppose, sounds good to me. This may be one if not the first KMC Star Wars versus threads settled peacefully with people still supporting both sides.

I sure hope it stays that way, but Vious and Tyranus might be coming back. Please, you two, let this thread just die peacefully!

stone7 Junior Member

look here this fight is no question. i totally agree with darin. dooku can take 2 jedi at once. luke cant do that at all. personnally, luke has to be the worst dam jedi ever. he has the skill of a young ling. dooku would hand him his ass on a silver platter after toyin with him.i dont care if luke did beat vader. and vader did not get better after ROTS. vader was old and worn out. look at the movie again and then watch anakin in action against dooku.Wow! look beat old darth vader.luke wuld not have beat young anakin.u saw how sidiuos nearly ended luke with the electricity.remember 😱 dooku could do the exact same thing AND wouldn't have daddy to come save his little mama's boy@$$.

DE Luke Senior Member

Yeah,why don't you actually provide proof instead of adding your own overbiased opinion next time,n00b.

Admiral Akbar Senior Member

Vader is Dooku's superior? The clunking hunk of metal...

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by DE Luke
Yeah,why don't you actually provide proof instead of adding your own overbiased opinion next time,n00b.

Enough of the insults, please. All the guy did was provide the truth in a hyped up fashion. If you dont like it either ignore it or piss off instead of throwing your weight around.

Admiral Akbar Senior Member

Originally posted by stone7
look here this fight is no question. i totally agree with darin. dooku can take 2 jedi at once. luke cant do that at all. personnally, luke has to be the worst dam jedi ever. he has the skill of a young ling. dooku would hand him his ass on a silver platter after toyin with him.i dont care if luke did beat vader. and vader did not get better after ROTS. vader was old and worn out. look at the movie again and then watch anakin in action against dooku.Wow! look beat old darth vader.luke wuld not have beat young anakin.u saw how sidiuos nearly ended luke with the electricity.remember 😱 dooku could do the exact same thing AND wouldn't have daddy to come save his little mama's boy@$$.

WOW. moron.

DE Luke Senior Member

You've done nothing,Rampant,NOTHING, but say "ZOmg!D00ku w1l1 I3 Luk3 b3(4u53 h3 15 t3h ul3er 4nd my 0wn 0v3rl31453d 0pin1on 54y5 50!!!!1111!"

I don't think you have a right to push people around considering you can't back up your own statements,fanboy.While the proof Jim posted above is MORE than enough to prove Dooku would go down to ROTJ Luke.

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by DE Luke
You've done nothing,Rampant,NOTHING, but say "ZOmg!D00ku w1l1 I3 Luk3 b3(4u53 h3 15 t3h ul3er 4nd my 0wn 0v3rl31453d 0pin1on 54y5 50!!!!1111!"
I don't think you have a right to push people around considering you can't back up your own statements,fanboy.While the proof Jim posted above is MORE than enough to prove Dooku would go down to ROTJ Luke.

Have you even read my posts?? Ive provided plenty of evidence. They ALL back up my beleif that Dooku is better than Luke. Now go back and reread the thread and then think about what you just said.

DE Luke Senior Member

I have,an you've said nothing of relevance other than your own overbiased opinion.Here's REAL proof that Luke would beat Dooku:

These are before ESB happens, also, and Luke is still pretty good.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=12&f=34&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_34
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=20&f=26&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_26
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=15&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

Also, a left over clone, who has seen Jedi fight, called Luke a Jedi. Take that for what you will, also.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=23&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Since when is Form V effective against Makashi. Makashi is bred for duelling and has been mastered by the Count. Dooku has been practicing the style for 80 years and can go toe to toe with Yoda. Luke has been in three battles, has had minimum training and has never encountered someone who specialises in duelling before. This gives the Count an extreme advantage straight away.
And yes Form V could sometimes be effective against Makashi because of its physical power. However you need the skill to back it up, like Anakin had. However Luke has the physical strength but not the skill. This is clearly evident in all his duels in the OT. He wildly swings his saber around in a vain attempt to hit something. If he did this with Dooku he will certainly be dead. One quick thrust of Dookus saber and Luke is a goner.
Also Luke has presented nothing special with the force. Yes, he eventually becomes one of the most powerful force users of all time, but not in ROTJ. He gets wtf pwned by sith lightning, a technique we know Dooku has mastered. And he has also shown no evidence of being able to block this technique, however Dooku is powerful enough to block it with his hands. The Count can rip down rooves and pull out steel balconies with ease. Luke is no way near that level of force power and mastery by the time of ROTJ.
Face it, by the time of ROTJ, Luke is nowhere the level of skill that Count Dooku is on.

I posted this before. Im reposting it because I dont think you read it. There is plenty of evidence there to say that Dooku would win.

DE Luke Senior Member

Yeah,the only relevant thing you said was Force lightning,ever think he could block it with his saber?The only reason he got hit by it was because he didn't have his saber on,and in the novel,he did resist for a couple of seconds,and Sidious lighting is more powerful than Dooku's,as shown when Sidious annihalated a squadron of Stormtroopers with lightning alone.

And Luke DID master the form,look at Mace in the PT,he barely has any skill with a saber at all,but in EU,he created his own form!Read Jim's sources I reposted above.

Escape81 Restricted

Personally ?

My stand on it is this. Rampant, you've pissed off so many people with your campaign to promote Dooku that they have nothing good to say about him anymore. The further you attempt to glorify him, the more problems you create.

Count Dooku is both a talented duelist and a talented Force user, with immense capabilities on both ends. He was highly intelligent, wealthy, and resourceful. But he wasn't the most powerful person of his day, nor was he one of the most powerful ever.

He is inferior to his two masters, Yoda and Sidious (and Anakin), and is on equal footing with Mace. Other than that, he's superior to all others in the PT.

But you blow his abilities entirely out of proportion. Count Dooku would be annihilated (not just "defeated"😉 by the likes of NJO Luke, Exar Kun, or DE Sidious. He would be crushed.

And when you continue to spout your fanboyism, the others respond with insults because you make them impatient. As far as contributions to the entire mess, you are the foremost person responsible.

DE Luke and co. should stop the insults, but you're adding fuel to the fire.

Dooku wouldn't own Luke with the knowledge we've had. If he's able to defeat a person who is 80% of RotJ Sidious, then he could hold his own against Dooku and possibly defeat him.

You're only judging the poor choreography of the 80s and lack of special effects.