Well, everyone, with the exception of Ackbar and maybe a few people who don't follow this thread anymore, who was arguing for Dooku is banned, so...
Ush. if you think it's for the best, you can close it, but I think with Tyranus and Vious gone, this should go along better. You could just let the thread die with age, and if the debate comes back up and gets out of hand, feel free to close it.
Since when is Form V effective against Makashi. Makashi is bred for duelling and has been mastered by the Count. Dooku has been practicing the style for 80 years and can go toe to toe with Yoda. Luke has been in three battles, has had minimum training and has never encountered someone who specialises in duelling before. This gives the Count an extreme advantage straight away.
And yes Form V could sometimes be effective against Makashi because of its physical power. However you need the skill to back it up, like Anakin had. However Luke has the physical strength but not the skill. This is clearly evident in all his duels in the OT. He wildly swings his saber around in a vain attempt to hit something. If he did this with Dooku he will certainly be dead. One quick thrust of Dookus saber and Luke is a goner.
Also Luke has presented nothing special with the force. Yes, he eventually becomes one of the most powerful force users of all time, but not in ROTJ. He gets wtf pwned by sith lightning, a technique we know Dooku has mastered. And he has also shown no evidence of being able to block this technique, however Dooku is powerful enough to block it with his hands. The Count can rip down rooves and pull out steel balconies with ease. Luke is no way near that level of force power and mastery by the time of ROTJ.
Face it, by the time of ROTJ, Luke is nowhere the level of skill that Count Dooku is on.
Originally posted by Lord TyranusTranslation Lord Tyranus: "LOL LOL LOL!! I hate jewish people and like to annoy people, where is teh jewish gold? Hahaha!! No no, it's overlord who is teh troll, ten year old Count Kent told me! What's wrong with arguing against moderators and the last word syndrom us kids tend to have? It's overlord who should be banned! LOL LOL LOL!!!"
Trolling? Thats Overlord's job. I just like to annoy Jewish people. Oh by the way where is your Jew gold? I mean the real one too...lololololololol
Overlord: LOL LOL LOL!! You people are teh funny!!
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Since when is Form V effective against Makashi. Makashi is bred for duelling and has been mastered by the Count. Dooku has been practicing the style for 80 years and can go toe to toe with Yoda. Luke has been in three battles, has had minimum training and has never encountered someone who specialises in duelling before. This gives the Count an extreme advantage straight away.And yes Form V could sometimes be effective against Makashi because of its physical power. However you need the skill to back it up, like Anakin had. However Luke has the physical strength but not the skill. This is clearly evident in all his duels in the OT. He wildly swings his saber around in a vain attempt to hit something. If he did this with Dooku he will certainly be dead. One quick thrust of Dookus saber and Luke is a goner.
Also Luke has presented nothing special with the force. Yes, he eventually becomes one of the most powerful force users of all time, but not in ROTJ. He gets wtf pwned by sith lightning, a technique we know Dooku has mastered. And he has also shown no evidence of being able to block this technique, however Dooku is powerful enough to block it with his hands. The Count can rip down rooves and pull out steel balconies with ease. Luke is no way near that level of force power and mastery by the time of ROTJ.
Face it, by the time of ROTJ, Luke is nowhere the level of skill that Count Dooku is on.
Luke does have the skill. He was an expert with a lightsaber from when he first laid hands on it. Through his training with Ben and Yoda, he has learned how to harness his natural strength. As far as the lightsaber forms go, form V has a good edge over Makashi.
You also need to take EU into account. If we went solely by what the films had, Mace was a horrible duelist. So was Maul. At one point in the duel between Obi and Anakin, they were swinging their lightsabers around like batons and either could have just stabbed the other. The approved EU that doesn't contradict the movies also counts.
Lightning can be easily blocked with a lightsaber. And:
These take place immediately after ANH. He must have learned a surprising amount from old Ben alone.
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_2_of_4
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_2_of_4
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_3_of_4
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_3_of_4
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_4_of_4 -> http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_4_of_4
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_4_of_4
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era2...Eye_Part_4_of_4
These are before ESB happens, also, and Luke is still pretty good even before his training with Yoda.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.ph...ars_-_Empire_34
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.ph...ars_-_Empire_26
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.ph...ars_-_Empire_27
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.ph...ars_-_Empire_40
Also, a left over clone, who has seen Jedi fight, called Luke a Jedi. Take that for what you will, also.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.ph...ars_-_Empire_27
These are from immediately after ESB:
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_...;f=29&name=
Luke is able to show his skills with the force in ROTJ when he effortlessly subdues two guards, lifts C-3p0 in the air, and when he performs a mind trick.
Luke shows us two great fights against Vader.
Luke takes out around 20ish mercenaries of Jabba's best mercenaries on Jabba's sail barge, and had Boba Fett beat.
Vader comments that Lukes "Skills are complete" in ROTJ.
Those are from my "Luke's skill" thread and I think will help prove my point in this debate. I changed a few things, and I think they're worth a looksie.