1.He can't go 'toe to toe' with Yoda,otherwise he wouldve fought Yoda longer and/or beat him.
2.Dooku didn't start the Clone Wars,Sidious was the REAL one who did,Dooku was just a lackey.
3.What 'several padawans' are you talking about?The only two I know of are Qui-Gon,and Komari Vosa,and she fell the Dark Side.
Originally posted by DE Luke
1.He can't go 'toe to toe' with Yoda,otherwise he wouldve fought Yoda longer and/or beat him.
I mean he can fight Yoda and meet him blow for blow. He was then able to escape with his life. I can think of only 2 other people who can do this. Mace Windu and Darth Sidious. NOT ROTJ Luke.
2.Dooku didn't start the Clone Wars,Sidious was the REAL one who did,Dooku was just a lackey.
It depends how you look at it. Dooku literally started the war. He wasnt the master mind yet he was the person who did all the work eg finding the template for the clones, creating the CIS etc
3.What 'several padawans' are you talking about?The only two I know of are Qui-Gon,and Komari Vosa,and she fell the Dark Side.
He also had all of his dark acolytes which he trained and GG. These kept his saber/force skills sharp as well as having the status of being sombodies master. By ROTJ, Luke didnt know nearly enough to train a padawan.
1.True,but Dooku didn't look like he could hold on much longer and it wasn't very far into the duel when he ran aswell.
2.If it wasn't Dooku it wouldve been some other lackey.
3.Then why does Yoda,Grandmaster of the Jedi Order,say that after Luke defeats Vader he will be a Jedi?
At any rate,I'm done with arguing,I need to get some sleep.
1. But if it has been ROTJ Luke in that battle instead of Dooku he would have got wtf pwned.
2. But the point is it was Dooku. And there would have been very few others in the galaxy that could have done it to the same standard. The Count is very persuasive and has large amounts of political power.
3. True I guess. He MIGHT have been able to take on an apprentice although I highly doubt it. Anyway it is pointless to this argument so lets just forget it.
Originally posted by DE Luke
This from someone who doesn't even debate here.Yeah,you basically just PWNed yourself right there.And stop PMing me,I have better things to do than listen to an idiot such as yourself.And I don't even go to EOD,if I would I could,self PWNed again,n00b.And I insult members because they're being stupid and not looking at the facts rather than their own opinion.And Ive been insulted before,but I have NEVER insult anyone for no reason.Rampant has always been a fanboy of Dooku's,he irritates me because he thinks that Dooku would be a hard take down for NJO Luke,that is bullshit right there,NJO Luke would PWN Dooku.He doesn't provide proof for his statements,only his opinion.@Ackbar:A man could be 80 years old,but still not have experience with most things.Age alone doesn't bring experience 😉 And I haven't seen you show anything about what Dooku has done in most his life,where Jim,has posted a bunch of info about what has done in his life,which is highly considerable.And if Luke was so weak,then how did he manage to defeat Vader?
Age does bring experience, thats almost always the case. Dooku had year and years to practice, and finesse his skills, his force powers. He is a master of both light and dark. Luke had a few years of training under Yoda. He encountered some monsteres here and there and defeated Vader who is suppose to be weaker than ROTS anakin. Plus, the goal was to convert luke to the darkside. Vader was using no force powers during his fight with Luke, even though he was known to have much more powerful force powers than ROTS.
Wait..."gasp" Dooku diden't use any of his force powers either against Anakin, but instead on Obi wan. Vader and Dooku both refrained from using any force powers. Is there a message!!!?
Vader was't weakr than ROTS Anakin,Anakin at that time just had more potential,that doesn't mean Vader didn't use his suit,strength and size to his advantage.He was a master at Djem So,which I last heard ,countered Makashi and Luke mastered Djem So aswell.And didn't just 'Defeat Monsters here and there',look at the links Jim provided,he did more than that.
Originally posted by DE Luke
Vader was't weakr than ROTS Anakin,Anakin at that time just had more potential,that doesn't mean Vader didn't use his suit,strength and size to his advantage.He was a master at Djem So,which I last heard ,countered Makashi and Luke mastered Djem So aswell.And didn't just 'Defeat Monsters here and there',look at the links Jim provided,he did more than that.
According to Lucas, Vader was weaker . . .
Personally, I don't see how - considering he had longer to control and master the Force, his saber form, his attitude - and so forth.
But, Lucas = law.
Originally posted by Escape81
Experience doesn't necessarily mean everything. Hell, Yoda had 800 years of experience . . . but Palpatine still gave him one hell of a fight, despite only having only 60 years or so of experience.
I dont want to go into the Yoda vs Palpatine argument.....Palpatine and Yoda were both considered "old" Palpatine nearing the end of his lifetime, and yoda his. Luke was only in his twenties and had only a few years to train. Dooku was far far older. More experienced.
Originally posted by DE Luke
Vader was't weakr than ROTS Anakin,Anakin at that time just had more potential,that doesn't mean Vader didn't use his suit,strength and size to his advantage.He was a master at Djem So,which I last heard ,countered Makashi and Luke mastered Djem So aswell.And didn't just 'Defeat Monsters here and there',look at the links Jim provided,he did more than that.
Feat wars dont always guarantee victory in a fight. Has he fought against anyone but Vader? No..but Dooku has fought against many jedi, both before he turned to the darkside and after.
Dejm So better than Makashi last time I heard isn't going to cut it. Provide some proof. Makashi is the best lightsaber to lightsaber style, now that is proof.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
I dont want to go into the Yoda vs Palpatine argument.....Palpatine and Yoda were both considered "old" Palpatine nearing the end of his lifetime, and yoda his. Luke was only in his twenties and had only a few years to train. Dooku was far far older. More experienced.
Your logic makes no sense.
You're right, we don't need to get in there. You think Yoda WTFpwns him, I disagree and back it up (by the way, I posted your post about Yoda outclassing Sidious on the DE Sidious vs Mace and Dooku thread - as you asked).
Point being, Yoda's experience was outrageously overwhelming compared to Palpatine's. Several hundred years older. He still had one hell of a fight, which ended in a stalemate.
Experience does not mean everything.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Wtf do you mean my logic doesn't make sense? Both Yoda and Palpatine mastered their styles. What more can you do? Luke just began as a practioneer of his style; Dooku had already mastered Makashi.
Although I'm not sure of the outcome I think Akbar has a point. Even if you have mastered your form in 8 months there is SOOO much more to learn, so much more to perfect, so much more to do with it....
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Wtf do you mean my logic doesn't make sense? Both Yoda and Palpatine mastered their styles. What more can you do? Luke just began as a practioneer of his style; Dooku had already mastered Makashi.
I didn't say that experience was useless. I am simply saying that it does not always determine the outcome of the battle.
Maul defeated Qui Gon (who had greater experience).
Obi Wan "defeated" Maul (who had greater experience).
Kun defeated Vodo (who had greater experience).
Mace stalemated Dooku (who had greater experience).
Anakin defeated Dooku (who had greater experience).
Mace "defeated" Sidious (who had greater experience).
Sidious stalemated Yoda (who had greater experience).
Luke "defeated" Vader (who had greater experience).
Luke "defeated" Sidious (who had greater experience).