RotJ Luke vs Count Dooku.

Started by Lightsnake17 pages

Master of the saber. Anakin was a saber master before he was even a knight.

Actually, you're trying to present your opinion and interpretation as fact, so don';t even start. EU's not overriding anything, you're trying to throw that out just because it shoots down your opinion

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Master of the saber. Anakin was a saber master before he was even a knight.

As I said before:
Luke was not called a Master in any of the original movies. The novelizations might say he mastered the use of something, but they were written when the term applied to having learned a skill. You have (I assume) mastered riding a bicycle. That doesn't mean you're a Master of The Bike, which someone like Matt Hoffman is. The English language has moved on in the thirty years since the movies came out. If you were to transport someone from the 60s to Present day LA, there would be any number of expressions that they would not understand, or thought had a different meaning.
Ever seen 51st State? Where Robbie Carlyle offers Sam a cigarette by saying 'Eff Aye Gee' (censor won't allow the written word)? In the UK, that is a commonly used term for cigarettes, it is not just a way of calling someone a homosexual, like it is in America. Do you see the point I'm trying to illustrate? The phrase 'had mastered' just meant Luke had learned to do something. It didn't make him a Master of that weapon

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, you're trying to present your opinion and interpretation as fact

No I'm not. I'm simply presenting facts as they exist from the movies.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
EU's not overriding anything, you're trying to throw that out just because it shoots down your opinion

Okay, two points here. First off, you say that EU's not overriding anything. That is correct. Second. I am throwing out your EU nonsense not because it 'shoots down my opinion', but because the movies (the higher form of canon) shoot down the EU.

Vious, you're pissing Lightsnake and I off (I don't like to speak for other people, but I think it's safe to assume I'm right). All the EU here is valid. It doesn't contradict the movies, like you pretend it does. It can be used, so calm down. If it says it in an approved source and doesn't contradict the movies, it's true. Understood?

Jollyjim be right in this case. This is an EU-subsection, after all. EU goes, unless contradicted by the movies. If it's not, you can't say it is.

Yay, I <3 Rex!

I don't mean it like that, so don't stain your skivvies or anything.

Damn. barker

Originally posted by Razielim
I want to see what people think. Who wins this?

Thank you Generic Hero. Finally a chance to say "Dooku tools the b!tch" without getting bumrushed with "Oh yeah then why he died to hiz dady!!!!11111111!1! ZOMG!!!!!1111111111!!!!!!!!11 Yur a noob!!!!!!!!!"

Oh yeah then why does he get killed at the hands of his dad!?

Just kidding. Anywho I think Luke could defeat Dooku. Luke managed to defeat Vader.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Oh yeah then why does he get killed at the hands of his dad!?

Just kidding. Anywho I think Luke could defeat Dooku. Luke managed to defeat Vader.

Who would get his ass shocked by Dooku...

Yes, vader, who stood head and shoulders above men like Jerec, the Hands, KADANN...you think noone'd used force lightning on Vader before?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, vader, who stood head and shoulders above men like Jerec, the Hands, KADANN...you think noone'd used force lightning on Vader before?

Sorry after ROTJ, I don't believe any of the non-canonical bullshit...

Which is too bad, considering in this debate it goes full well.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Which is too bad, considering in this debate it goes full well.

How? You come in here screaming about Luke's power. This is ROTJ Luke we are talking about( the only true Luke), he has little to no power in the force. His lightsaber skills are practically non-exsistant as well. As for Dooku vs. Old-Vader, Palaptine killed Vader with lightning and Dooku knows how to use lightning. Whats next? Vader has cortosis or some type of armor that absorbs energy attacks? Please...

Originally posted by Lord Tyranus
Sorry after ROTJ, I don't believe any of the non-canonical bullshit...

It doesn't matter what you believe. You can't sit there and call some EU non-canon and then take others as canon because it supports your cause.

Vader was stronger then Jerec who was a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars but became a Dark Jedi and was trained a little by Emperor Palpatine. And yet Jerec wasn't Palpatine's apprentice because Palpatine wanted the stronger Jedi/Sith as his apprentice. He wanted Luke because Luke was stronger then Vader.

Originally posted by Lord Tyranus
How? You come in here screaming about Luke's power. This is ROTJ Luke we are talking about( the only true Luke), he has little to no power in the force. His lightsaber skills are practically non-exsistant as well. As for Dooku vs. Old-Vader, Palaptine killed Vader with lightning and Dooku knows how to use lightning. Whats next? Vader has cortosis or some type of armor that absorbs energy attacks? Please...

Hmm I guess Vader would sit there and take it. I mean it's not like we never seen someone like Mace or Obi-Wan block Force Lighting with their lightsabers.

Fact of the matter is in ROTJ Luke was stronger then Vader.

Little to no power? Same guy who practically moves ships one DAY hence? The guy Palpatine was frightened of?

And hm, let' think...was Vader defending himself or caring about his life? Is Palpatine the undisputed master of the dark side in the movies? Vader's faced people with force lightning before.

Here's something from the Return of the Jedi script between the duel against Luke and Vader:

Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers
even more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi
has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts
to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked
down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to
attack.

Luke ignites his lightsaber and screams in anger, rushing at his
father with a frenzy we have not seen before. Sparks fly as Luke
and Vader fight in the cramped area. Luke's hatred forces Vader
to retreat out of the low area and across a bridge overlooking a
vast elevator shaft. Each stroke of Luke's sword drives his
father further toward defeat.

The Dark Lord is knocked to his knees, and as he raises his sword
to block another onslaught, Luke slashes Vader's right hand off
at the wrist, causing metal and electronic parts to fly from the
mechanical stump. Vader's sword clatters uselessly away, over the
edge of the platform and into the bottomless shaft below. Luke
moves over Vader and holds the blade of his sword to the Dark
Lord's throat. The Emperor watches with uncontrollable, pleased
agitation.

Luke is so terrible of a duelist that he was able to not only defeat Vader but force him on the defense their entire match. This is the same Luke who Force Choked and killed two guards in a second or two. The same Luke who lifted C3P0 up and moved him about. Same Luke that Palpatine called a huge threat to him and Vader. The same Luke who Palpatine wanted to replace Vader at his side.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Here's something from the Return of the Jedi script between the duel against Luke and Vader:

Luke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers
even more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi
has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts
to him. Vader is forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked
down the stairs. Luke stands at the top of the stairs, ready to
attack.

Luke ignites his lightsaber and screams in anger, rushing at his
father with a frenzy we have not seen before. Sparks fly as Luke
and Vader fight in the cramped area. Luke's hatred forces Vader
to retreat out of the low area and across a bridge overlooking a
vast elevator shaft. Each stroke of Luke's sword drives his
father further toward defeat.

The Dark Lord is knocked to his knees, and as he raises his sword
to block another onslaught, Luke slashes Vader's right hand off
at the wrist, causing metal and electronic parts to fly from the
mechanical stump. Vader's sword clatters uselessly away, over the
edge of the platform and into the bottomless shaft below. Luke
moves over Vader and holds the blade of his sword to the Dark
Lord's throat. The Emperor watches with uncontrollable, pleased
agitation.

Luke is so terrible of a duelist that he was able to not only defeat Vader but force him on the defense their entire match. This is the same Luke who Force Choked and killed two guards in a second or two. The same Luke who lifted C3P0 up and moved him about. Same Luke that Palpatine called a huge threat to him and Vader. The same Luke who Palpatine wanted to replace Vader at his side.

All of a sudden moving c-3p0 is a testament of power? Hahahaha. If so Dooku's dropping th balcony on Kenobi makes him able to beat the piss out of Ragnos or Revan mavbe even together...lol...

No, you said he had little to no power. Luke has shown to be able to lift C3P0 with ease, Force Choke two guards and kill them in a few second, and of course he has shown to be able to Force Pull.

Luke in ROTJ is stronger then Vader.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
No, you said he had little to no power. Luke has shown to be able to lift C3P0 with ease, Force Choke two guards and kill them in a few second, and of course he has shown to be able to Force Pull.

Luke in ROTJ is stronger then Vader.

The fact is that he outduelled someone who moves like the tin-man after he's been crying. Dooku is the master of a fluid and lethal style. That alone is enough to say that Dooku can take on the Barry Bonds of the SW Universe...

Originally posted by Lord Tyranus
The fact is that he outduelled someone who moves like the tin-man after he's been crying. Dooku is the master of a fluid and lethal style. That alone is enough to say that Dooku can take on the Barry Bonds of the SW Universe...

I'm sorry did you even see ESB and ROTJ? Vader doesn't move as slow as everyone makes him out to believe and during the Jedi Purge Vader killed many more Jedi then Dooku. Vader was a master of Form V and far greater in the Force then Dooku.

Vader engaged 3-5 Jedi at once and was WTF pwning them. The only reason he lost was because one of them managed to destroy his lightsaber.

Vader is greater then Dooku in all aspects.