DE Luke Skywalker vs. Yoda & Revan

Originally posted by exanda kane
I'm not insulting you, I'm warning you to play down the language and insults, I realise that you started off with some good points, which I acknowledged, but you were too easily provoked. Please try not to be teasted so easily next time. As I said, you both wrote some good posts.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
No, Leia felt the third presence, not Luke. No he didn't, and I quote:
Luke:"Join your Jedi power to mine, Leia."
Leia:" I already am, Luke. Haven't you sensed it?"

^Right there, it proves that he didn't even feel a power boost from either Leia or Anakin and didn't realize Anakin was helping till Leia told him.

Touche.

But what's that mean? All it means is that Luke understood that he couldn't beat Palpatine alone - and required Leia. Who required Anakin.

That or Luke thought he required Leia. But in the end, it really do anything except give Luke a very minimal boost but it really didn't effect much at all.

Minimal? Are you mad? He had to combine his force potential with Leia and Anakin.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
That or Luke thought he required Leia. But in the end, it really do anything except give Luke a very minimal boost but it really didn't effect much at all.

I'm sorry, my friend. I don't see the logic in it. If Luke possessed the power to defeat Palpatine, he would have done it without their assistance.

Apparently, though, Leia didn't think Luke stood much of a chance either, if she had already combined her power to his.

Where did she this?

And if it really was a good power boost then Luke wouldve felt it, but he didn't until Leia told him, which proves if it was a power boost,it sure as hell wasn't big one or one that would decide the outcome of the duel.

Originally posted by Adas
Minimal? Are you mad? He had to combine his force potential with Leia and Anakin.

He didn't sense it all, he didn't even know Anakin joined them until Leia told him. I'm giving you the facts, it was minimal, otherwise Luke wouldve felt it if it was as powerful as to decide the outcome of the duel.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Where did she this?

And if it really was a good power boost then Luke wouldve felt it, but he didn't until Leia told him, which proves if it was a power boost,it sure as hell wasn't big one or one that would decide the outcome of the duel.

I'm sorry, Spartan, but what you're arguing with makes no sense. I could say that Luke was in such a mode of concentration - pitting everything that he had against the Storm - that he literally couldn't feel a thing.

The 'feeling' makes no sense.

Then why did Leia ask if he had sensed it? It does make sense. He asks her to join her power to his, she tells him she already has and asks him if he senses it. Therefore if it was as powerful as to decide the outcome of the duel, he wouldve sensed it.

Then why did Leia ask if he had sensed it?

According to you, Luke didn't sense anything. If that is the case, then Leia probably asked to see if he felt more powerful. The point is - Luke obviously didn't think that he could defeat a Force Storm. Leia didn't think that she could - or that he could, for that matter - either.

To top it off, then you have Anakin Solo to add fuel to the fire. Ultimately, it required those three (with the same Force potential and connection as Anakin Skywalker - the Chosen One) to conquer Sidious's Force Storm.

It does make sense. He asks her to join her power to his, she tells him she already has and asks him if he senses it. Therefore if it was as powerful as to decide the outcome of the duel, he wouldve sensed it.

I think that you're trying to imply that either DE Luke = DE Sidious or that DE Luke > DE Sidious. Neither of which are true - especially - in terms of Force powers, where Palpatine is firmly several notches above Luke.

The only versions of Luke who could defeat Sidious are the New Jedi Order version on up.

True, but we aren't talking about the Force Storm, we're talking about the duel between him and Palpatine.

Keyword is 'probably', but the reason was to see if it was affecting him in any way, not if he felt powerful.

We have nothing to go on besides unsupported assumptions. Everyones screaming "Leia used BM!" when we don't even know nor have to proof to her even knowing BM. All we have is her glowing, and like I said before, it was addressed that she was the only Lightside being on that ship. I could even claim that it was the Lightside that made her glow.

And like I said before, Luke was unprepared to face the Emperor in that form. It happened very suddenly, if I remember correctly.

Luke was radiating waves of light during his duel with Palpatine. When Luke faced Palpatine for the second time, he was already back on the light side of the Force.

As for this:

And like I said before, Luke was unprepared to face the Emperor in that form. It happened very suddenly, if I remember correctly.

Luke was attempting to rebel against Palpatine, killing off all of his clones. Palpatine's spirit manifested itself in a younger clone, and then proceeded to obliterate Luke in single combat.

Luke could not have improved that much in that short of a timeframe.

Nai's theory seems to be the correct one. It just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Escape81
Luke was radiating waves of light during his duel with Palpatine. When Luke faced Palpatine for the second time, he was already back on the light side of the Force.

As for this:

Luke was attempting to rebel against Palpatine, killing off all of his clones. Palpatine's spirit manifested itself in a younger clone, and then proceeded to obliterate Luke in single combat.

Luke could not have improved [B]that much in that short of a timeframe.

Nai's theory seems to be the correct one. It just doesn't make sense. [/B]

Obliterate? Uh, no. Palpatine overwlemed Luke, but he didn't obliterate him. They stalemated at one point before Palpatine knocked him down.

How much was the timeframe from that duel to the one over Pinnacle base? When Luke was training with Yoda, he improved over a matter of atleast 2-3 days, your saying it's impossible for Luke to do the same in DE, when he has Palpatine's knowledge and books that Palpatine wrote?

Originally posted by Spartan ll
1.It shows he has a significant amount of TK. I haven't seen Yoda try to lift a city-like ship with only his mind.

Do you actually see the difference between using the force to aid the landing of a taken out ship (done by Anakin in ROTS, done by Luke) and trying to completely lift the ship up and keep it in the air ?

2.Whup dee doo, he destroyed a Hailfire droid. Luke took down an AT-AT. AT-AT>Hailfire droid.

Oh yes ? As you can perfectly see in AotC one rocket from a hailfire droid is enough to take out the AT-AT like walkers the Clones are using so I really don't see were the AT-AT stronger than a hailfire droid.

And where did he bring the top of a mountain down? If it's Clone Wars, then thats bad proof. CW is HEAVILY overpowered, if Jedi were able to deflect hundreds of blaster bolts, jump to the peak of mountains and destory droids with their bare hands, then the Battle of Geonosis wouldve been a piece of cake.

Considering the CW we have to destinquish between displayed action and story elements. Yoda did defeat the droids on Ilum (story) and he did rescue the two Jedi that were in the temple (hence he had to lift the remains of the temple up). If that seems to be "too overpowered" what is Luke then ?

And Luke also destoryed an army of battle droids, with only the flick of his wrist, and these battle droids were more deadly than the puny ones Yoda took down.DE Luke>Yoda

Oh. Were did he do that, huh ? Luke and Mara together had some trouble dealing with one modified Droideka when they rediscovered the Outbond Flight Project - and this happened about 12 years after DE, so I seriously doubt that Luke by DE would have been able to "destroy an army of battle droids with only the flick of his wrist".

3.Yeah, BS. Where is this stated? It sure as hell isn't mentioned in any book I know. And last time I checked, we haven't even heard of Leia even KNOWING anything about BM let alone actually using it. You're basing most of your 'facts' over unsupported assumptions. And how many days was it before Luke fought the Emperor again? Even so, Luke wasn't even prepared to fight the Clone Emperor when the Clone was decanted.

Lmao. Luke did just go there to destroy the Clones and he knew that he had to do it fast or he would have to face the Emperor. And the Emperor was much less prepared for that fight considering he was freshly reborn and didn't even have a weapon at the beginning of the fight. So what ?

4.Where is this stated about 'legions', let alone it ever happening? I heard Yoda killed a Dark Jedi on Dagobah, but thats about it. Either way, Dark Jedi aren't anything like Sith trained assassins(Palpatine's BEST Sith trained assassins, may I add.), don't compare apples and oranges. Dark Jedi are siginifcantly weaker because they know nothing about Sith techniques, where a Sith trained assassin could comfortably beat an average Dark Jedi.

During the Clone Wars an entire Jedi training facility on Bfassh went over to the Dark Side and joined the CIS due to Dooku's influence. The Jedi did attack them and the Dark Jedi Yoda killed on Dagobah was the last remaining of that Jedi. And a "Sith trained assassin" also doesn't know Sith techniques since those (at least under Palpatine) were just kept by the two existing Sith.
Aside of that Yoda obviously confronted a real Sith once given that he knew about the Rule of Two before TPM.

And I don't care what it looks like, Luke beat the Clone Emperor. It is never stated nor proven that Leia is using BM, it doesn't even state that she knows it for Christ's sake! You are basing that off of an unsupported assumption.

Oh yes. Let's ignore how the Emperor just floored Luke with a lightning blast right on the page before they engage in the duel. Than you see Leia closing her eyes and focusing, a bright light surrounding her and suddenly Luke is able to defeat Sidious. And the just to tell you: Between the two fights is precisely the time Han and Leia needed to travel from Byss to Mon Calamari + one day (fight on Mon Calamari). But maybe Luke advanced his skill so much in the matter of a few days ? I doubt it.

And last time I checked, the Clone Emperor was a hell of a lot more powerful than either ROTJ or ROTS Sidious. ANd Yoda couldn't even beat the inferior Sidious(ROTS), he wouldn't stand a chance against ROTJ Sidious, and would get tooled by DE Sidious. Hell, even the DE Sourcebook states that Luke and Sidious were moving faster than the eye could see and were tearing Sidious throne room to shreds in the process. When Yoda can go that fast, let me know.

And as I said: Luke wasn't able to beat DE Sidious on his own. And Yoda's speed ? You're talking about the same Yoda that was able to dodge attacks from 3 Jedi at once without using his lightsaber while it looked like he was "hardly moving at all" ?

Then why did Leia ask if he had sensed it? It does make sense. He asks her to join her power to his, she tells him she already has and asks him if he senses it. Therefore if it was as powerful as to decide the outcome of the duel, he wouldve sensed it.

There is a difference between "joining your power to somebody" or simply use a force technique to boost up somebody else in terms of combat skills (Battle Meditation). I doubt that people like Oppo Rancisis or Bastilla were "all powerful" (compared to their superiors) but still they could influence entire armies using Battle Meditation.

And what Leia did was "unlocking unknown resources in Luke" when they "joined" their powers meaning she basically unlocked parts of his potential which weren't yet realized.

How much was the timeframe from that duel to the one over Pinnacle base? When Luke was training with Yoda, he improved over a matter of atleast 2-3 days, your saying it's impossible for Luke to do the same in DE, when he has Palpatine's knowledge and books that Palpatine wrote?

Given that you don't even know how long Luke stayed with Yoda using that as an argument is pretty stupid. Luke needed 6 months to advance from ESB to ROTJ level (or from getting pwned by Vader to be able to compete with Vader) while he was almost fighting or studying the entire time. I doubt that some similar skill boost would happen in the matter of a few days especially when we see Sidious putting Luke on his back with a single force attack just moments before the engaged in the duel in which Leia was clearly aiding Luke.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Do you actually see the difference between using the force to aid the landing of a taken out ship (done by Anakin in ROTS, done by Luke) and trying to completely lift the ship up and keep it in the air ?

Oh yes ? As you can perfectly see in AotC one rocket from a hailfire droid is enough to take out the AT-AT like walkers the Clones are using so I really don't see were the AT-AT stronger than a hailfire droid.

Considering the CW we have to destinquish between displayed action and story elements. Yoda did defeat the droids on Ilum (story) and he did rescue the two Jedi that were in the temple (hence he had to lift the remains of the temple up). If that seems to be "too overpowered" what is Luke then ?

Oh. Were did he do that, huh ? Luke and Mara together had some trouble dealing with one modified Droideka when they rediscovered the Outbond Flight Project - and this happened about 12 years after DE, so I seriously doubt that Luke by DE would have been able to "destroy an army of battle droids with only the flick of his wrist".

Han even mentions a few pages before that the scavengers have there own little private army of rebuilt Battle Droids, not just the 3 above that explode, but a whole army of them explode. Plus, these are more powerful and more advanced droids than the BI and B2 series of battle droids, considering its been atleast 27 years since the Clone Wars.

Lmao. Luke did just go there to destroy the Clones and he knew that he had to do it fast or he would have to face the Emperor. And the Emperor was much less prepared for that fight considering he was freshly reborn and didn't even have a weapon at the beginning of the fight. So what ?

During the Clone Wars an entire Jedi training facility on Bfassh went over to the Dark Side and joined the CIS due to Dooku's influence. The Jedi did attack them and the Dark Jedi Yoda killed on Dagobah was the last remaining of that Jedi. And a "Sith trained assassin" also doesn't know Sith techniques since those (at least under Palpatine) were just kept by the two existing Sith.
Aside of that Yoda obviously confronted a real Sith once given that he knew about the Rule of Two before TPM.

And a so you are saying that the Jedi just sent Yoda to go there alone?
You don't have proof of him even going there all alone, by himself. For all you know, he couldve brought the entire Jedi Order AND Clone Army there. I doubt the Jedi would be foolish just send one Jedi after an entire group DarK Jedi, no matter how inferior to Sith trained Assassins taught under Palpatine himself, may be.

Oh yes. Let's ignore how the Emperor just floored Luke with a lightning blast right on the page before they engage in the duel. Than you see Leia closing her eyes and focusing, a bright light surrounding her and suddenly Luke is able to defeat Sidious. And the just to tell you: Between the two fights is precisely the time Han and Leia needed to travel from Byss to Mon Calamari + one day (fight on Mon Calamari). But maybe Luke advanced his skill so much in the matter of a few days ? I doubt it.

And you forgot, the duel was over Pinnacle Base, not Mon Calamari, which is half way across the galaxy, from what time we saw Lando's squadron arrive, it had to have been atleast 2-3 days, which means he had 4 days to study Palpatine's teachings and books.

And as I said: Luke wasn't able to beat DE Sidious on his own. And Yoda's speed ? You're talking about the same Yoda that was able to dodge attacks from 3 Jedi at once without using his lightsaber while it looked like he was "hardly moving at all" ?

There is a difference between "joining your power to somebody" or simply use a force technique to boost up somebody else in terms of combat skills (Battle Meditation). I doubt that people like Oppo Rancisis or Bastilla were "all powerful" (compared to their superiors) but still they could influence entire armies using Battle Meditation.

And what Leia did was "unlocking unknown resources in Luke" when they "joined" their powers meaning she basically unlocked parts of his potential which weren't yet realized.

And you still haven't shown me proof of Leia even knowing BM. When you do, tell me.

Given that you don't even know how long Luke stayed with Yoda using that as an argument is pretty stupid. Luke needed 6 months to advance from ESB to ROTJ level (or from getting pwned by Vader to be able to compete with Vader) while he was almost fighting or studying the entire time. I doubt that some similar skill boost would happen in the matter of a few days especially when we see Sidious putting Luke on his back with a single force attack just moments before the engaged in the duel in which Leia was clearly aiding Luke.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
True, but I'd put ROTS Anakin below DE Luke in terms of Force and saber. And the fact that DE Luke was actually able to land the SD(Which is the size of a city.) in one piece, actually proves that he is powerful enough to do it. Anakin was barely even holding a the ship togehter, Luke wasn't even tired after it, considering we heard from Lando that he just took off after the crash.

Wow. First the Star-Destroyer wasn't intact ("I can see what is left of the Liberator"😉 and second Luke didn't land it - it were Lando and Wedge.

First of all, the AT-TE is weaker than the AT-AT because it is more open to ground attacks(As Seen in Clone Wars), the AT-ATs only weakness is in it's legs, and AT-ATs also have precision laser canons on either side of the cockpit to destory any incoming missles that are going to hit them. You're comparing apples and oranges again..

Yes. Because they have precision laser canon able to take down flying objects they are unable to hit the attacking rebel vessels in ESB, correct ?

Yeah, and Luke defeated an army of droids(As Han stated, the salvagers built there own little army and even had akk dogs.) and a group of deadly akk dogs and was able to land an SD (Again, one SD is the size of a city.) in one piece. An SD is larger than the Crystal Caves of Illum, I would say. And the BDs and akk dogs Luke destroyed were more powerful than the droids Yoda faced on Illum.

Han even mentions a few pages before that the scavengers have there own little private army of rebuilt Battle Droids, not just the 3 above that explode, but a whole army of them explode. Plus, these are more powerful and more advanced droids than the BI and B2 series of battle droids, considering its been atleast 27 years since the Clone Wars.

Would you please stop with that bullshit.

1)
It's mentioned that there are scarvengers and "junk-traders" from all over the Galaxy coming to that battlefield. Obviously they are not all in that place.

2)
Same for "their own little army"

3)
You can precisely see how many people are attacking the rebels. It's one vessel filled with them. So obviously the droids we see Luke taking down there is all Luke has taken down there. So please don't come up with "he destroyed an army of droids" because he didn't.

4)
More advanced ? Oh yes. Because we know that there are droids in use that are sometimes several centuries old - even thousands of years, those things must be advanced compared to the Battledroids of the Clone Wars.

Really? The Clone Emperor seemed very confident of himself even before they both had the saber duel. Palpatine was prepared, he knew that Clone Lab like the back of his hand, he had to.

Oh my. Given that he was just reborn and given that he didn't have any weapon at hand he obviously wasn't that prepared. And if he was self-confident, then because he knew that Luke wasn't able to beat him in personal confrontation.

The Rule of Two wasn't even established yet in DE's time. So your point right there is moot. They did know Sith techniques, they were given limited training under Palpatine himself(DE Sourcebook). Much better than average Dark Jedi, I think.

The Rule of Two was established 1,000 years before ANH. You were saying ? Aside of that Palpatine's "trainees" were either Dark Jedi themselves or - even worse in terms of force powers - Emperor's hands.

And a so you are saying that the Jedi just sent Yoda to go there alone?
You don't have proof of him even going there all alone, by himself. For all you know, he couldve brought the entire Jedi Order AND Clone Army there. I doubt the Jedi would be foolish just send one Jedi after an entire group DarK Jedi, no matter how inferior to Sith trained Assassins taught under Palpatine himself, may be.

Did I say he went there on his own ? I was merely stating the fact that Yoda had fought Sith before the PT, fought Sith during the PT (Dooku and Sidious) and obviously fought Dark Jedi.

Yes and let's ignore that it is never mentioned nor has it been proven that Leia even KNOWS anything about BM in either comic. Luke advanced in his skills only a few days when he was with Yoda on Dagobah. What makes you think that with all the resources Palpatine gave him, he couldn't learn more?

Are you really that stupid ? After training for weeks / months under the Emperor he was not able to beat him even when the Emperor was freshly "reborn" and had no weapon at the beginning of the match. Then we see Sidious putting Luke on the ground with a single force attack just before they fight.
Then we see Leia starting to focus, Luke gives a nice "the path of a Jedi is not a lonely part" speec (indicating again that Leia is helping him) and then he defeats Sidious who - again - did floor him only moments before

And you forgot, the duel was over Pinnacle Base, not Mon Calamari, which is half way across the galaxy, from what time we saw Lando's squadron arrive, it had to have been atleast 2-3 days, which means he had 4 days to study Palpatine's teachings and books.

Wow. He had weeks or months before that to do so and wasn't able to overcome Palpatine after he did it. But suddenly he is ? Use your head.

As I said, you have no proof of Leia even knowing anything about BM, so stop screaming it every 5 minutes, when you actually find proof to that, then I'll listen. What '3 Jedi' are you talking about? Where are you getting this?

Battle Meditation was just a guess. Obviously she does use the force to help Luke. What she did exactly is not important.

Read "Shadow Hunter". Yoda wants to demonstrate the power of the force to some Jedi students, is attacked by Depa Billaba and two other Jedi. Depa is on the level of Mace when it comes to bladework - possible even above (as Mace states himself in "Shatterpoint"😉. So if Yoda can dodge that "without effort" he must be pretty fast.

Then why didn't he sense her doing this? It doesn't make sense, he tells her to join her power to his, and she already is, but he doesn't sense her doing it already? If so, doesn't seem to have done that much otherwise, like Leia said, he wouldve sensed it.

Then why does the omniscient narrator descripes what she does exactly when she's not doing anything ? Oh my...that makes sense, huh ?

In I think it was Shadows of the Empire or the ESB novel, I'll have to take a look, Vader admits that he was hard pressed against Luke when they dueled on Cloud City. ROTJ Luke was litterally Vader's equal and maybe more, and Luke by ROTJ couldve litterally destoryed Vader but was holding back, it even states this. And Luke only got his knowledge from Ben Kenobi's old hut in Shadows of the Empire, nowhere else. And Luke didn't get 'PWNed' by Vader, he was actually able to compete with him where other, more powerful Jedi, wo were trained from birth, failed against him(Roan Shrine, the Jedi from Purge...), even when Vader was just getting used to being in the Suit. That right there, shows how powerful Luke was after Yoda's training(Which was only 2 or 3 days, from the ESB novel.).

And when the arguments are out we can just use lies.
Vader pretty much destroyed Luke in ESB with ease. He tossed him around, he threw stuff at him at will and when Vader lost his control for a second, Luke suddenly had a hand less. If Vader would have intented to kill Luke, then Luke would have been death in the first minute of their duel.

And there is no mentioning of the time period that passed during Luke's training with Yoda. Given that his friends had the time to hide in the meteor field, escape the Imperials, fly to Bespin with their damaged engine and spent some time there - that's quite a lot of time for training.

About Yoda dodging those jedi:

She had attended a lecture on battle techniques given by Master Yoda earlier this year, and the memory of it came back to her now.

Yoda had faced the assembled students and spoken, his thin reedy voice somehow carrying to the far corners of the lecture hall without benefit of amplifiers.

"Better than training, the Force is. More than experience or speed it gives." And he had given a demonstration. Three members of the council - Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters all had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him. The lesson had struck powerfully home: Knowledge of the Force was infinitely better than technique.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Wow. First the Star-Destroyer wasn't intact ("I can see what is left of the Liberator"😉 and second Luke didn't land it - it were Lando and Wedge.

Yes. Because they have precision laser canon able to take down flying objects they are unable to hit the attacking rebel vessels in ESB, correct ?

Would you please stop with that bullshit.

1)
It's mentioned that there are scarvengers and "junk-traders" from all over the Galaxy coming to that battlefield. Obviously they are not all in that place.

2)
Same for "their own little army"

3)
You can precisely see how many people are attacking the rebels. It's one vessel filled with them. So obviously the droids we see Luke taking down there is all Luke has taken down there. So please don't come up with "he destroyed an army of droids" because he didn't.

4)
More advanced ? Oh yes. Because we know that there are droids in use that are sometimes several centuries old - even thousands of years, those things must be advanced compared to the Battledroids of the Clone Wars.

2. No, not the same for their 'little army'. They took those from battlefields abandoned by the Imperial Warlords and Royalists, that's why the Rebels said they used 'Hot Wired Weapons Droids'. Are you now going to say that the Imperials on both sides, didn't use BDs?

3. Yeah, like he didn't fight his way through the battlefield to get to the ruined Imperial Palace?

4. So now you're saying newer battledroids weren't used by the Imperials on both sides? Most of the CIS factories were left abandoned, and the battle droids we saw in the Prequels weren't as tall or as powerful as the ones in DE.

Oh my. Given that he was just reborn and given that he didn't have any weapon at hand he obviously wasn't that prepared. And if he was self-confident, then because he knew that Luke wasn't able to beat him in personal confrontation.

The Rule of Two was established 1,000 years before ANH. You were saying ? Aside of that Palpatine's "trainees" were either Dark Jedi themselves or - even worse in terms of force powers - Emperor's hands.

Did I say he went there on his own ? I was merely stating the fact that Yoda had fought Sith before the PT, fought Sith during the PT (Dooku and Sidious) and obviously fought Dark Jedi.

Yeah. And Yoda took down "legions" of Dark Jedi on Bfassh. So what ?

Are you really that stupid ? After training for weeks / months under the Emperor he was not able to beat him even when the Emperor was freshly "reborn" and had no weapon at the beginning of the match. Then we see Sidious putting Luke on the ground with a single force attack just before they fight.
Then we see Leia starting to focus, Luke gives a nice "the path of a Jedi is not a lonely part" speec (indicating again that Leia is helping him) and then he defeats Sidious who - again - did floor him only moments before

Yeah, and he gets up.

What does she focus, huh? The comic doesn't even SAY this. It shows her glowing, it doesn't state BM, it doesn't even say she KNOWS BM! FOr all I and you know, that may just be the Lightside protecting her because she IS on a ship that is full of the Darkside, you know.

Wow. He had weeks or months before that to do so and wasn't able to overcome Palpatine after he did it. But suddenly he is ? Use your head.

Would you be able to fight someone as powerful as the Clone Emperor for the first time, that you didn't know any strengths or weakness about and win? No.

Luke learned from this experience, he knew Palpatine's weakness(Fear.) hence why he was able to take him down.

Battle Meditation was just a guess. Obviously she does use the force to help Luke. What she did exactly is not important.

Read "Shadow Hunter". Yoda wants to demonstrate the power of the force to some Jedi students, is attacked by Depa Billaba and two other Jedi. Depa is on the level of Mace when it comes to bladework - possible even above (as Mace states himself in "Shatterpoint"😉. So if Yoda can dodge that "without effort" he must be pretty fast.

Then why does the omniscient narrator descripes what she does exactly when she's not doing anything ? Oh my...that makes sense, huh ?

That's all it says.

And when the arguments are out we can just use lies.
Vader pretty much destroyed Luke in ESB with ease. He tossed him around, he threw stuff at him at will and when Vader lost his control for a second, Luke suddenly had a hand less. If Vader would have intented to kill Luke, then Luke would have been death in the first minute of their duel.

And I wasn't lying. It was in Shadows that Vader said he was hard pressed against Luke, he even comments on how good he was when he his shoulder starts to ache.

And there is no mentioning of the time period that passed during Luke's training with Yoda. Given that his friends had the time to hide in the meteor field, escape the Imperials, fly to Bespin with their damaged engine and spent some time there - that's quite a lot of time for training.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
About Yoda dodging those jedi:

She had attended a lecture on battle techniques given by Master Yoda earlier this year, and the memory of it came back to her now.

Yoda had faced the assembled students and spoken, his thin reedy voice somehow carrying to the far corners of the lecture hall without benefit of amplifiers.

"Better than training, the Force is. More than experience or speed it gives." And he had given a demonstration. Three members of the council - Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters all had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him. The lesson had struck powerfully home: Knowledge of the Force was infinitely better than technique.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
DE Sourcebook says Luke used the Force to activate the engines and land it. And of course it would have damage, it was fighting Imperials remember? Luke managed to land what was left of it in one piece.

Wow. "Using the force to activate some engines" = "lifting up a Stardestroyer". Thank you for letting me know. So if somebody uses the force to activate the Death Stars Hyperdrive that equals "force pushing the death star into another sun system", correct ? Idiot...

You see one at that is flying straight at the AT-AT get hit by them then it crashes.

Yes. And a hailfire droid has 30 missles, each of them capable of causing nice damage to an AT-AT. Who wins ?

1. I didn't say they were all from that place, but a good concentrated amount of them were.

Precisely zero of them - aside from those fighting the rebels - were seen. So what ?

3. Yeah, like he didn't fight his way through the battlefield to get to the ruined Imperial Palace?

Did you miss the fact that his Stardestroyer crashed right next to the Imperial Palace and when Luke appears for the first time it says that he "emerges from the ruins of the Imperial Palace". So where did he had to fight through the "battlefield" to get to the Palace if he crashed right next to it ?

And it doesn't matter how strong those droids were since Luke didn't kill an army of them.

I was saying the Rule of Two wasn't even made when DE was published! And Jerec or Treymne was weak in terms of Force Powers? Both were accomplished Jedi Masters before turning to the darkside. And I said 'limited' teaching under Palpatine, again, from the DE Sourcebook.

Yes they received limited teaching and were descriped as "Dark Jedi". So what ?

'Weeks/ Months'? Don't bullshit me, Nai. Luke was only there for I'd say 5 days, maybe a 10 days at the most. And like I said, the Emperor was just decanted in a new , more powerful, body. Yoda sure as hell wouldn't be able to take him down, considering he couldn't even beat his inferior version(ROTS).

Oh you say he was only there for 5 or 10 days. It's nice what you say but it doesn't matter. And what do I care if Yoda could take DE Sidious down if Luke himself wasn't able to do it.

What does she focus, huh? The comic doesn't even SAY this. It shows her glowing, it doesn't state BM, it doesn't even say she KNOWS BM! FOr all I and you know, that may just be the Lightside protecting her because she IS on a ship that is full of the Darkside, you know.

ROFL. Yes. A Jedi now needs "protection from the Dark Side" when being at a place where the Dark Side is powerful and due to that fact has to focus on that protection, with closed eyes and without moving. More bullshit you have in your head ?

Again, bullshit. He was only there for atleast 5-10 days, from my estimation. And he wasn't even prepared to face Palpatine in that form of power.

You estimation doesn't mean jack shit and it's stupid.

Just to give you some lesson in terms of SW science. The Hyperdrive of the Falcon was damaged meaning Luke's friends have to go with sublight speed. The Falcon is capable of traveling 40 MGLT with a MGLT being defined as speed of 400 metres / second.

That turns into 57,600 kilometres / hour maximum sublight travel speed for the Falcon.

Now if we take our own sun system as basis the next planet (Venus) has a minimum distance to earth of 40 million kilometres. With the sublight travel speed of the Falcon you would need 694 hours (or about 28 days) to get there.

As you might have figured out by now, it's quite more reasonable that Luke stayed weeks or even more than a month at Dagobah then coming up with "a few days".

Would you be able to fight someone as powerful as the Clone Emperor for the first time, that you didn't know any strengths or weakness about and win? No.

Luke learned from this experience, he knew Palpatine's weakness(Fear.) hence why he was able to take him down.

Stupid, more Stupid, Spartan II.
Luke stayed for quite a long time period with the Emperor but suddenly he figures out Sidious weakness ? How dumb can assumptions get. Let's ignore how Leia is focusing on something in the background, starts getting surrounded by some nice glowing light and how Luke gives a speech about how the part of a Jedi is no lonely part and instead of assume that Leia somehow aided Luke - let's assume that all over a sudden Luke figured out how to defeat the Emperor in a lightsaber duel when he was put on his ass in the first duel and put on his ass again just SECONDS before the fight started, when he was clearly willing to use his lightsaber against Sidious.

Yes. That makes sense...

Stop guessing. Yeah, but where is it stated that she used the Force to help him in the duel against Palpatine? The only time we even hear of her helping, is to destory the Force Storm, and even then, he couldn't sense her or Anakin helping him.

Really. What should she have done there, using the force if NOT either strengthen Luke or weaken Sidious. There is nothing else that makes sense.

Oh my, you're bullshiting again. It doesn't say anything ABOUT Leia. I have the page up now, I'll give you what it says:
Palpatine😖o be it---- THROUGH THE POWER OF THE FORCE YOU WILL DIE!
*Proceeds to fight Luke in 3 panels before getting his hand cut off in the 4th panel*

That's all it says.

Have a look at Leia. Have a look at the background. Do you spot something ? Luke right before tells use that "the way of the Jedi is not a solitary one" meaning he has help.

Funny, I remember Vader commenting on him being 'Most impressive.' and having 'Learned Much.' before finally getting knocked off the Carbon Freezing Platform. And when Vader went inot a frezy, I remember him earning an injured shoulder.

The point is that Luke wasn't able to defend himself against Vader's force attacks and that he wasn't able to outduel Vader. If Vader's intention would have been to kill him there, he could have just force choked him to death. In ROTJ he was able to keep up with Vader while he clearly wasn't in ESB. Same in this situation. He clearly isn't able to keep up with the Emperor even when having every advantage on his side - and suddenly he should be able to do that ?

True, and there is no mentioning of how long Luke was in the Emperor's service either, if I may recall.

We know that:
- Luke was transported to the Emperor and started serving him
- in the meantime Han and Leia go back to the Rebel Base (core worlds -> outer rim)
- then they spent some days in the rebel base (Han training new pilots, Leia feeling that something is wrong with Luke "for days"😉
- then they again travel from the Rebel Base to Nar Shadda and spent some time there
- then they go from Nar Shadda to Mon Calamari
- then back to the Pinnacle Moon

Given that I'd say Luke did stay with the Emperor for at least 2 weeks possibly more time - depends how many time Han needed to train the pilots exactly (at least "days"😉 and how much time the travels would need and how long they stayed at all that places.