DE Luke Skywalker vs. Yoda & Revan

Originally posted by Borbarad
Sidious is not on par with Yoda when it comes to speed and agility, Escape. Yoda is still jumping around like a mad muppet during their duel , while Sidious is holding the superior position. Sidious just turns around to meet Yoda's attacks or strike at him. You could as well say that Dooku was on par with Yoda when it comes to speed and agility - doesn't make much sense.

@Lightsnake:

Again Lightsnake: If somebody actively participates in the fight - by blocking the Darkness of Sidious presence - how can she be a spectator at the same time. It doesn't make sense.

They are ? Where ?

And Luke's skills, in DE's narraration are stated as 'formidable'...by rhe end with Sidious, they're incredible, godlike, titanic, etc.
Hell, in the preceeding books, he's able to wipe out an entire group of Dathomiri witches while resisting force lightning, two years prior. This before he gets training with Palpatine that triples his power.

Sidious is not on par with Yoda when it comes to speed and agility, Escape.

Yes, he is, Nai.

Yoda is still jumping around like a mad muppet during their duel , while Sidious is holding the superior position. Sidious just turns around to meet Yoda's attacks or strike at him. You could as well say that Dooku was on par with Yoda when it comes to speed and agility - doesn't make much sense.

Palpatine was quick enough to kill two Jedi Masters before they could react (and before Mace could), was quick enough to engage Kit Fisto and Mace Windu in combat simultaneously - killing Fisto, despite Mace's presence - and then went on to put Mace on the defensive, forcing him out of the private office.

So, he's faster than Dooku and Mace.

He was quick enough to meet all of Yoda's attacks, and wasn't bombarded by it. He's quick enough, then, to counter all of Yoda's assaults and keep up with him. He's apparently quick enough to evade Yoda and put quite a bit of distance in between the two of them, because Sidious is already in pod-mode just as Yoda flips off the podium.

No, Nai. You're wrong. Sidious is as fast as Yoda. The commentary even states that (the fight) was supposed to be "faster than the others".

From what we've seen in the movies and what is said in the EU nobody was on par with Yoda when it came to speed, agility or lightsaber ability.

In the Darth Maul Journals, Sidious is instructing Maul in lightsaber combat - and reveals his own. He then proceeds to outline Maul's very form, and Maul himself comments that had he (Maul) moved a muscle, he would have been sliced apart. The crimson from Sidious's blade also remains in the air for a few seconds, before disapating.

That alone would put him on par with Yoda.

I can't even count how often people admit that Yoda is vastly superior to them including Mace (Shatterpoint) and Dooku (Dark Rendevouz) in force and lightsaber use.

Dooku never (to my knowledge) confesses that Yoda is better than him, in anything. In Attack of the Clones, he believes that he is more powerful than Yoda. In Dark Rendezvous, he believes that they're equals. In Labyrinth of Evil, he continues this line of thought - despite being defeated by Yoda twice (once on Vjun - a Dark Side infested planet).

Mace only comments (again, to my knowledge) that Yoda is superior. How superior and by what isn't apparent. Yoda isn't leagues above Dooku or Mace in anything.

Isn't Yoda leagues above them in the force? I thought he was, since in Shatterpoint when Mace can't move that thing with the force he states that Yoda would do it with one hand, while he couldn't do it at all. And he pretty much toys with Dooku when they are having a force duel.
Of course, my knowledge of their abilities isn't really that great, so what do I know...

Originally posted by kamikz
Isn't Yoda leagues above them in the force? I thought he was, since in Shatterpoint when Mace can't move that thing with the force he states that Yoda would do it with one hand, while he couldn't do it at all. And he pretty much toys with Dooku when they are having a force duel.
Of course, my knowledge of their abilities isn't really that great, so what do I know...

He is above them (Dooku and Mace), yes, but by leagues? Doubtful.

Ok how much is a league? Cause from what Mace said and what we saw in AOTC, Yoda seemed to toy Dooku (forcewise) and complete something with ease that Mace did not handle at all...

Escape, if Sidious was indeed faster than Mace, he would have beat him, so don't say he's faster just because he engaged him in combat along with 3 others. You fail to realize Mace's mobility and speed is severely compromised when he has 3 other Jedi masters right next to him. Don't forget Mace took 6 stabs at Kar Vastor faster than Vastor could see.

Escape, if Sidious was indeed faster than Mace, he would have beat him, so don't say he's faster just because he engaged him in combat along with 3 others.

Ah, I see. I suppose then, in sheer speed, that Obi-Wan Kenobi must be a mile ahead of General Grievous - who could swing twenty strikes per second.

I forgot that speed is the deciding factor in a duel. I have to review my Revenge of the Sith, where Grievous slaughters Kenobi and continues to lay waste to Uta - oh wait. . . Grievous lost, didn't he?

Damn.

You fail to realize Mace's mobility and speed is severely compromised when he has 3 other Jedi masters right next to him.

Palpatine butchered two members of Mace's four-man team before Mace could do anything. Fifty percent of his crew died a horrible death. Then, Palpatine went balls first into a showdown with Kit Fisto and Mace Windu - outmaneuvering them both - and killed Fisto. Whoops. That fifty percent turned into a seventy five percent mortality rate.

Palpatine was also quick enough to put Mace on the defensive, forcing him out of the private office.

Oh in that case, I guess Sidious IS faster than Mace when he beats him.. Oh wait..

palp is a lot faster than any Jedi in the academy plus very powerful...

And yet was beaten by Mace...

my point exactly

maybe it was un purpose cuz he knew anakin would come to save him

No, that's an unconfirmed rumor. He was arrogant, he underestimated Mace Windu, and was simply overpowered.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh in that case, I guess Sidious IS faster than Mace when he beats him.. Oh wait..

Ah. Let's go through it again. Speed is not the deciding factor in a duel. It is important, yes, but not the single most important. Anakin, for example, was stronger and faster than Obi-Wan - but was unable to defeat him in combat.

Once again, General Grievous is far faster than anyone - in sheer speed and reflexes. Obi-Wan may be lucky to make a single strike per second, whereas Grievous has no trouble making twenty strikes per second - calculate the difference. It's dramatic.

And yet, Grievous was unable to defeat Obi-Wan. Doesn't mean that Obi-Wan is faster.

Get my point? Hope so. Because it's very obvious.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, that's an unconfirmed rumor. He was arrogant, he underestimated Mace Windu, and was simply overpowered.

it was vapaad stated in one of the sources which refelected palpatines own hate against him causing him to be beaten.
vapaad is the most useful swordplay against a very angery opponent, especially darksiders

Vaapad formed a loop between them. Shatterpoint was the scale tipper. Not Vaapad. Mace's Vaapad just made the fight even.

Originally posted by Escape81
Ah. Let's go through it again. Speed is not [B]the deciding factor in a duel. It is important, yes, but not the single most important. Anakin, for example, was stronger and faster than Obi-Wan - but was unable to defeat him in combat.

Once again, General Grievous is far faster than anyone - in sheer speed and reflexes. Obi-Wan may be lucky to make a single strike per second, whereas Grievous has no trouble making twenty strikes per second - calculate the difference. It's dramatic.

And yet, Grievous was unable to defeat Obi-Wan. Doesn't mean that Obi-Wan is faster.

Get my point? Hope so. Because it's very obvious. [/B]

You're still missing the point. You're speculating that ROTS Sidious is faster than Mace. But Mace was able to land 6 blows on Vastor without Vastor being able to see it. That's a little more impressive in terms of speed than Sidious beating 3 supposedly powerful Jedi, and then getting floored by 1.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Vaapad formed a loop between them. Shatterpoint was the scale tipper. Not Vaapad. Mace's Vaapad just made the fight even.

o.o? sry to ask a dumb question but what is this shatterpoint exactly

His ability to see flaws in situations and techniques

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're still missing the point. You're speculating that ROTS Sidious is faster than Mace. But Mace was able to land 6 blows on Vastor without Vastor being able to see it. That's a little more impressive in terms of speed than Sidious beating 3 supposedly powerful Jedi, and then getting floored by 1.

You'd think if he could do that, though, he'd have stopped Palpatine before he butchered his allies.