Originally posted by Escape81
Unless he manipulated the Force to shove Sadow across the room, or anything of that nature, you have yet to provide any proof that the fear was nothing but residual psychological issues that Sadow had with the living Ragnos, as well as a possible fear of the unknown.
Force Ghost were not uncommon in Ancient Sith times. Sadow would have logically had dealings with them before. If you want to claim that the fear was psychological, you must PROVE IT.
Originally posted by Escape81
Inconsistencies in Star Wars exist. I hate to tell you this, but it's true. Just because Odan or Kun couldn't learn everything doesn't mean that Sidious couldn't.
You cannot try to formulate knew inconsistencies in your favor, you should know that. By the same logic, I could state that Sidious being called the most powerful Sith ever an inconsistency. As with Yoda being stated to be the strongest Jedi up to that point. See the failure of your logic?
Originally posted by Escape81
Sidious hadn't touched a lightsaber for thirteen years.You need to read that. Again. And again. And again. Until you understand it.
Furthermore, Sidious = Mace in sheer swordsmanship, despite the fact.
I'll ask you again, how old was Maul at the time?
Let's take a look at another fact. Maul was better than Qui-gon. Qui-gon was stated in one of the novelizations to be comparible to Mace. Mace is equal to or better than Sidious with a lightsaber. It doesn't add up. The most logical explanation is that Maul wasn't very good when he was amazed by Sidious' saber skills.
Originally posted by Escape81
This is before he became Chancellor of the Republic. Hell. He may have learned it from Plagueis.
Did he learn them in a week a piece or what? There wasn't time for him to do so.
Originally posted by Escape81
Refer to the fact that Exar and Odan aren't Sidious.
You can't use potential inconsistencies as an argument. It had no basis.
Force Ghost were not uncommon in Ancient Sith times. Sadow would have logically had dealings with them before.
Actually it's pretty clear that they were in the complete unknown of force ghosts.
Sadow: Marka Ragnos! But you're dead!
It's pretty clear that he was completely surprised that Ragnos was able to come back as a spirit.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
[B]Force Ghost were not uncommon in Ancient Sith times. Sadow would have logically had dealings with them before. If you want to claim that the fear was psychological, you must PROVE IT.
You cannot try to formulate knew inconsistencies in your favor, you should know that. By the same logic, I could state that Sidious being called the most powerful Sith ever an inconsistency. As with Yoda being stated to be the strongest Jedi up to that point. See the failure of your logic?
Let's take a look at another fact. Maul was better than Qui-gon. Qui-gon was stated in one of the novelizations to be comparible to Mace. Mace is equal to or better than Sidious with a lightsaber. It doesn't add up. The most logical explanation is that Maul wasn't very good when he was amazed by Sidious' saber skills.
And it's irrelevant how old Maul was although it's clear he was in his 20s, because force speed is force speed.
Glentract, stop it: It's canon Palpatine mastered everything there was to know and canon the Orbalisk armor was flawed.
Palpatine takes this. Oh, and just cause you seem to be dedicated to willfully denying the truth, Glen:
Did Exar or Odan tap into the Force itself in pure, unmitigated terms as Palpatine did to the Dark Side?
Nope? Ok, then.
Wrong. As Adas said, "Ragnos, but youre dead!!"
Perhaps you could interpret it as saying that, but I think that it actually is referring to the fact that Ragnos was no longer in charge because he had died, yet he was still ordering the two strongest Dark Lords around.
Except Sidious being the most powerful isn't an inconsistency. It's pretty damn accurate. The same goes for Yoda although I personally think Revan should be up there.
In the future argue against what I said. Escape had tried playing off the fact that Sidious could not logically know everything as an inconsistency. He has no evidence that it is one. I called Sidious and Yoda being the most powerful inconsistencies to prove the failure in his logic, not to forumlate an actual argument for such.
Actually this is indeed an inconsistency, unless ROTS Mace got a lot better. Because that would make Maul better than Mace, and that means Maul is better than Dooku. That would also mean Anakin is better than Mace if he beat Dooku. So that's a bunch of inconsistencies. Oh and btw, "comparable to Mace" doesn't mean they're on par at ALL..
And it's irrelevant how old Maul was although it's clear he was in his 20s, because force speed is force speed.
If Maul was ten years old, it's not very impressive as ten year olds are easy to impress. See the point?
It's canon Palpatine mastered everything there was to know and canon the Orbalisk armor was flawed.
Prove Palpatine knew everything there was to know.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
[b]Wrong. As Adas said, "Ragnos, but youre dead!!"Perhaps you could interpret it as saying that, but I think that it actually is referring to the fact that Ragnos was no longer in charge because he had died, yet he was still ordering the two strongest Dark Lords around.
Or it could be they'd never seen a ghost before.
Logic, logic.
Except Sidious being the most powerful isn't an inconsistency. It's pretty damn accurate. The same goes for Yoda although I personally think Revan should be up there.In the future argue against what I said. Escape had tried playing off the fact that Sidious could not logically know everything as an inconsistency. He has no evidence that it is one. I called Sidious and Yoda being the most powerful inconsistencies to prove the failure in his logic, not to forumlate an actual argument for such.
Actually this is indeed an inconsistency, unless ROTS Mace got a lot better. Because that would make Maul better than Mace, and that means Maul is better than Dooku. That would also mean Anakin is better than Mace if he beat Dooku. So that's a bunch of inconsistencies. Oh and btw, "comparable to Mace" doesn't mean they're on par at ALL..And it's irrelevant how old Maul was although it's clear he was in his 20s, because force speed is force speed.
If Maul was ten years old, it's not very impressive as ten year olds are easy to impress. See the point?
It's canon Palpatine mastered everything there was to know and canon the Orbalisk armor was flawed.Prove Palpatine knew everything there was to know. [/B]
Want the one of the DE Handbook where it calls his power limitless?
every aspect of the force?
Major debate in DESB
1.Fallanasi people were hiding from palpatine and he could have never learned their ways of the force
2. he himself stated he could not acces the holocrons
Clearly hyperbole statements in DESB
i saw palpatines page, it is only said "it is believed he mastered all known techniques"
STOP using it as an arguement
Perhaps you could interpret it as saying that, but I think that it actually is referring to the fact that Ragnos was no longer in charge because he had died, yet he was still ordering the two strongest Dark Lords around.
It seems pretty much black-and-white to the rest of us, Glentract. Do you have on-panel evidence that proves that Sadow and Kressh were in contact with Force Ghosts before this confrontation with Ragnos, or are you making an assumption?
Bear in mind: your assumptions are irrelevent.
If they had been in contact with Force Ghosts, and if they feared Ragnos as much as you said, then they would not be a reference to their disgruntlement that Ragnos was trying to give them orders.
No. It appears to be complete surprise.
In the future argue against what I said. Escape had tried playing off the fact that Sidious could not logically know everything as an inconsistency. He has no evidence that it is one. I called Sidious and Yoda being the most powerful inconsistencies to prove the failure in his logic, not to forumlate an actual argument for such.
Oh, please, Glentract. Star Wars is full of inconsistencies. But it is also full of the "what applies to one, does not necessarily apply to another" rule.
Exar Kun =/= Sidious. Unfortunately, I hate to tell you this, but Kun's intellect is far from Sidious's own, and I'd imagine that his comprehension is as well. Dark Empire confirms that Palpatine's knowledge of Dark Side techniques is immense (!).
Given that Sidious is older, smarter, and deeper in the Dark Side than Kun is, it isn't surprising.
If Maul was ten years old, it's not very impressive as ten year olds are easy to impress. See the point?
One part is Maul being in awe. The other, of course, you elected to neglect - is that Sidious traced Maul's entire form with a lightsaber, and Maul recollected that if he moved - he would have died.
Prove Palpatine knew everything there was to know.
Dark Empire.
Originally posted by Kadesh
every aspect of the force?
Major debate in DESB
1.Fallanasi people were hiding from palpatine and he could have never learned their ways of the force
2. he himself stated he could not acces the holocronsClearly hyperbole statements in DESB
i saw palpatines page, it is only said "it is believed he mastered all known techniques"STOP using it as an arguement
escape81. please read this, And by the way, that damm quote which said palpatine mastered aspects from the force is from palpatines Stat page. Read the above quote
Originally posted by Kadesh
escape81. please read this, And by the way, that damm quote which said palpatine mastered aspects from the force is from palpatines Stat page. Read the above quote
It is from Dark Empire. You can go to swtimeline.ru and look at it yourself.
1. You never know. The Jedi were hiding from Palpatine, as well. Didn't stop him from gaining knowledge of their techniques. The Sith were also hiding from the Jedi in the PT, for a thousand years. Didn't stop Yoda from gaining Dark Side knowledge enough to handle Count Dooku's Force lightning. It is possible that Palpatine captured one of them. Face it, the man was the supreme ruler of the most powerful military force in the history of the galaxy.
2. The Jedi holocrons. Nothing about Sith holocrons.
So, clearly, it isn't hyperbole. It is a well thought out and complex sentence, and would not have been made if it were a hyperbole, and Sidious carried average knowledge of the Dark Side. Given his zealotry and fanaticism related to the Dark Side, his life's dedication to uncovering it's secrets, and that he commands the greatest resources and most powerful regime ever - I see no reason why it is a hyperbole and why it isn't possible.
So, no, I will continue to use it.
Originally posted by Escape81
It is from Dark Empire. You can go to swtimeline.ru and look at it yourself.1. You never know. The Jedi were hiding from Palpatine, as well. Didn't stop him from gaining knowledge of their techniques. The Sith were also hiding from the Jedi in the PT, for a thousand years. Didn't stop Yoda from gaining Dark Side knowledge enough to handle Count Dooku's Force lightning. It is possible that Palpatine captured one of them. Face it, the man was the supreme ruler of the most powerful military force in the history of the galaxy.
2. The Jedi holocrons. Nothing about Sith holocrons.
So, clearly, it isn't hyperbole. It is a well thought out and complex sentence, and would not have been made if it were a hyperbole, and Sidious carried average knowledge of the Dark Side. Given his zealotry and fanaticism related to the Dark Side, his life's dedication to uncovering it's secrets, and that he commands the greatest resources and most powerful regime [B]ever
- I see no reason why it is a hyperbole and why it isn't possible.So, no, I will continue to use it. [/B]
What about when he himself stated that he could not access certein holocrons of the jedi.
And now that quote "it is believed that he had mastered all known powers, unkown powers and creates them at pleasure" is sadly outdated.
New abilities like the fallanasi looping technique and the amulets were written after DE, and there is nothing to prove that sidious had ever met the fallanasi since they were hiding from him and he could not learn their ways of the force.
Another thing which is a debate in DESB. They said he spent decades uncovering the secrets of the force to master every aspect of the force, but is there anything to prove that? When we read RODV, he is back in coruscant, when we read the mandalorian armour, i doubt he bothered to uncover secrets, the only time where he could have studied the force at a higher degree is when the 6 year period between rotj and DE
And that quote came from the stat page of DESB. It never said anything about the fallanasi looping technique. All powers they claimed he mastered were there
Originally posted by Kadesh
every aspect of the force?
Major debate in DESB
1.Fallanasi people were hiding from palpatine and he could have never learned their ways of the force
2. he himself stated he could not acces the holocronsClearly hyperbole statements in DESB
i saw palpatines page, it is only said "it is believed he mastered all known techniques"STOP using it as an arguement
1. There were Fallanassi traitors, remember?
No, wait, that'd be too easy...
2. To Leia. Meaning he was most probably lying. Or that you don't need holocrons to learn everything, consider that
And Kadesh, recent material substantiated his knowing everything: Visual Guide, Dark Side Sourcebook, Hyperspace suplements.....among, y'know, others
Oooh, sorry, but quotes don't get outdated unless there are direct contradictions.
And there aren't. Sucks for your argument, hm?
And if you're ready to stop being stupid: What was he doing during the Mandalorian Armor? I dunno, maybe he was, y'know, studying from the massive collection he had gained on Coruscant?
No, that would be too easy...