Fanboyism at its finest.
Revan "stronger" than DE Sidious? That's an inept assertion.
- Labyrinth of Evil states that the Sith have become stronger under Darth Sidious, and that he was the one born to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument. That would imply that such a thing doesn't happen often.
- Count Dooku submerged himself in the Force before his fight with Anakin and Obi-Wan, according to the RotS novel, and viewed that Sidious "was beyond power; darkness beyond darkness."
I could cite more, but as The Planet reminded me, I'm supposed to be retired (wouldn't want to pose off of Advent, eh?).
Besides. Sidious WTFpwned a fleet. Where did Revan do anything close?
Originally posted by Gideon
Fanboyism at its finest.Revan "stronger" than DE Sidious? That's an inept assertion.
- Labyrinth of Evil states that the Sith have become stronger under Darth Sidious, and that he was the one born to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument. That would imply that such a thing doesn't happen often.
- Count Dooku submerged himself in the Force before his fight with Anakin and Obi-Wan, according to the RotS novel, and viewed that Sidious "was beyond power; darkness beyond darkness."I could cite more, but as The Planet reminded me, I'm supposed to be retired (wouldn't want to pose off of Advent, eh?).
Besides. Sidious WTFpwned a fleet. Where did Revan do anything close?
ahm... Rev killed the star Forge(troopers, dark Jedi, Malak, Star Forges defenses all by himself)... an plus he killed the ones army and the dark jedi inside the temple of the Rakata....
anything more you wanna know 😄
Sure, why are you content with ignoring facts?
Revan didn't start a direct line of Sith, Bane did...and it was based entirely upon the apprentice growing stronger. Palpatine was the strongest of these, and managed to get his hands on just about every technique ever known, darkside or light...he studied from the spirits of the Ancients themselves, communed with the Darkside and achieved feats no other Sith were capable of.
Palpatine> revan by a large margin
lol... you are ignoring what I wrote... read every single thing i wrote then say something intelligent...
From Revan's EU profile: "Aboard the Star Forge, Revan almost single-handedly defeated an entire army of Sith and Dark Jedi, a testament to his power in the Force and mastery of lightsaber combat."
Revan's immense mastery of the force was put to test on Star Forge and he proved it by defeating all kinds of odds there. He encountered waves after waves of powerful Battle Droids, Dark Jedi and Elite Sith Troopers and he defeated them all. Malak himself acknowledged this fact and he believed that no matter what he throws at Revan, will not stop him and most it would do will just slow him down. Malak's commander was also aware of this.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sure, why are you content with ignoring facts?
Revan didn't start a direct line of Sith, Bane did...and it was based entirely upon the apprentice growing stronger. Palpatine was the strongest of these, and managed to get his hands on just about every technique ever known, darkside or light...he studied from the spirits of the Ancients themselves, communed with the Darkside and achieved feats no other Sith were capable of.Palpatine> revan by a large margin
He never displays his mastery of LS and always relies on his DS powers in battles. Yoda in-fact has demonstrated good mastery of LS.
So, you can't just go on and say that Sidious is master of both LS and DS powers.
Remember that DE Sidious faced DE Luke (who was not at his best yet) and still got defeated. Now, imagine that what LOTF Luke can do against DE Sidious.
And that same DE Luke got his @ss handed to him by the spirit of Exar Kun, who is as powerful as Darth Revan was.
And POST-KOTOR Revan remembers all about his past and thus is master of both LS and DS powers and is easily 3x more powerful then Count Dooku.
You can't just go on and state that DE Sidous is greater then Revan by a large margin and certainly not in case of POST-KOTOR Revan.
Yes! DE Sidious is perhaps 40% more greater then Darth Revan but not in case of POST-KOTOR Revan, who knows all about his PAST and is also master of the Light.
I can safely say that POST-KOTOR (who is more powerful then his DLOTS incarnation) is about 70% of DE Sidious in power. Or DE Sidious is about 30% more powerful then POST-KOTOR Revan.
Sidious DID have most jedi techniques. Remember when they slaughtered the jedi in the tempel? Well there is a reason they didn't blow the tempel up itself, and why they saved the archives from being destroyed....
And after speding countless of years beside the jedi council, I think he would pick up a thing or two. Especially since his quote in ROTS, "one must study all the aspects of the force".
Originally posted by kamikz
Sidious DID have most jedi techniques. Remember when they slaughtered the jedi in the tempel? Well there is a reason they didn't blow the tempel up itself, and why they saved the archives from being destroyed....And after speding countless of years beside the jedi council, I think he would pick up a thing or two. Especially since his quote in ROTS, "one must study all the aspects of the force".
And of-course! when you become a Sith, you have to study the views of Jedi as well so that you can differentiate between the ideologies of the two.
Sidous also learned the ways of the Jedi (like many Sith Lords before him and finally mastered the Dark Side).
Sidious would be good in LS but he never demonstrates his LS capabilities and only uses his DS capabilities in Combat and this is due to the reason that he is more confident in his DS capabilities.
And that temple was raided by Anakin (Darth Vader) and not Sidious.
And also remember that to "study" a thing is actually different from "mastering" it.
First of all, LS techniques are not used in battle, so it's pretty obvious that he doesn't. And if it is simple techniques such as how to defend himself from other force attacks, he does know it!
Thing is that just because he doesn't use it in a battle doesn't mean he cannot at all, then he'd have to use thousands of techniques for us to know that he knew "nearly all".
What? So if the tempel was raided by Anakin, that mean's Sidious can't ever go back there to get the archives? This makes no sense!
Originally posted by kamikz
First of all, LS techniques are not used in battle, so it's pretty obvious that he doesn't. And if it is simple techniques such as how to defend himself from other force attacks, he does know it!
Thing is that just because he doesn't use it in a battle doesn't mean he cannot at all, then he'd have to use thousands of techniques for us to know that he knew "nearly all".What? So if the tempel was raided by Anakin, that mean's Sidious can't ever go back there to get the archives? This makes no sense!
Yoda (in his offense) used his "Force Push" and send Sidious flying in his office as an example. This shows that LS techiques are not just for defensive purposes.
And by your logic, Jedi can't be offensive. So your logic is flawed.
Dooku also had excess to Jedi Archives but that does not means that he was master of the Light. He in-fact became very powerful when he embraced Dark Side and mastered it.
And of-course, every Sith Lord knows some LS moves. But Mastering LS is a different thing.
WTF? Push and Pull are not LS force powers, they are neutral. Everyone uses them, unless you think Maul was using light side techniques as well.
And Yoda never uses offensive LS techniques, he uses minor offensive force powers, but that's it! LS is not used to attack!
And you're wrong, Jedi are NOT offensive when they use LS powers, LS powers consist of things like heal, support and other stuff, not how to kill someone!
And Sidious spent the rest of his years only studying, Dooku was said by Yoda to be an almost perfect jedi, he became MORE powerful when he embraced the dark side, he was still powerful before!
A quote says he nearly mastered all, and we know Sidious had access to all jedi archives. HE KNOWS IT. THE END!!!!
Originally posted by kamikz
WTF? Push and Pull are not LS force powers, they are neutral. Everyone uses them, unless you think Maul was using light side techniques as well.And Yoda never uses offensive LS techniques, he uses minor offensive force powers, but that's it! LS is not used to attack!
And you're wrong, Jedi are NOT offensive when they use LS powers, LS powers consist of things like heal, support and other stuff, not how to kill someone!
And Sidious spent the rest of his years only studying, Dooku was said by Yoda to be an almost perfect jedi, he became MORE powerful when he embraced the dark side, he was still powerful before!
A quote says he nearly mastered all, and we know Sidious had access to all jedi archives. HE KNOWS IT. THE END!!!!
LS is used to defend and no one doubts it but LS can be used in offensive ways like Yoda did.
And by your logic, Jedi have never killed their opponents? Killing is itself offensive in nature and Jedi do it, when it is required.
Remember that Sidious termed Jedi as "relentless".
And Yoda even held Obi-Wan in very high esteem and that Obi-Won was no match against Sith Lord Dooku.
Dooku himself admits that he became far more powerful then any Jedi in his time after learning a good deal of DS powers.
And every Sith Lord knows some LS moves, so it is not anything special.
Details, details, I couldn't care less!
And since when did Yoda use specifically LS push? There is no difference, if someone uses a force push he uses a force push, not a LS force push or a DS force push!
And READ!!! I said jedi doesn't usually use the force OFFENSIVLEY, I said LS techniques are used for defence and support cases, not to kill someone, I never said jedi didn't kill people, however, they don't use killing force powers. So no, that's not "my logic", more like you missunderstanding.
Lol, so? WTH has this to do with anything? That jedi are more powerful with knowledge of the dark as well, how does that change the fact that Sidious knows many jedi techniques
Well my point is that mastery in LS is different from knowing the ways of the Jedi or understanding Jedi philosophy. Many Sith Lords knew the ways of the Jedi and Sidious is not different.
In canonical sources, Yoda has been stated to be master of the Light and Sidious has been stated to be master of the Dark Side. And this is my view as well.
He has access to Jedi Archives that have been heavily downsized thanks to Exar's attack on Ossus, then downsized again through constant raiding during the Jedi Civil War, then again when the Jedi all but abandoned the the Jedi Temple when Sion and Nihlius attack the Jedi. I'm HEAVILY sceptical that Sidious had some complete understanding and infinite grasp of the Lightside simply from the Jedi Temple's Archives. And also no Jedi spirit would teach him shit, so he's SOL on that account and even still he couldn't even open the Holocrons he had.
Originally posted by Gideon
That's nice. A pre-DE Sidious wiped out a batallion of Stormtroopers with a single blast of Force Lightning.Sidious also did it with one attack.
Once again, lol, you need to provide me an instance where Revan came close to doing that.
"You used one of those magical powers of yours to kill many of my warriors who were also accompanied by Rancor Beasts. Your power extended from sky and slaughtered all of my scouting parties along with the beasts". - The One
[QUOTE=7882474]Originally posted by kamikz
You make it seem like it decreased only, the jedi must have developped new techniques and powers over the long, long time of peace, and as long as there are jedi left who knew the old techniques, it is highly possible that they wrote down what they knew as well!
Now I have to sleep! Bye. [/QUOTE
New powers such as...
Originally posted by Darth_Frost
lol... you are ignoring what I wrote... read every single thing i wrote then say something intelligent...From Revan's EU profile: "Aboard the Star Forge, Revan almost single-handedly defeated an entire army of Sith and Dark Jedi, a testament to his power in the Force and mastery of lightsaber combat."
Revan's immense mastery of the force was put to test on Star Forge and he proved it by defeating all kinds of odds there. He encountered waves after waves of powerful Battle Droids, Dark Jedi and Elite Sith Troopers and he defeated them all. Malak himself acknowledged this fact and he believed that no matter what he throws at Revan, will not stop him and most it would do will just slow him down. Malak's commander was also aware of this.
Seriously don't care, Palpatine still>Revan.