The PT vs. The Old-School

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Which Bpfasshi rebellion was this, now?

Lightsnake, I have no idea what you're talking about, and you clearly don't either, lol.

I don't think I can be more clear: In the Thrawn trilogy, Yoda kills one after his exile on Dagobah

Irrelevant misdirection. The one killed during the Clone Wars is the one that made the Dark Side Cave. These supposed "others" (prove up, by the way) obviously had no effect, because the cave was established during the Clone Wars.

NEC confirms there was one killed during the Clone Wars over Dagobah and Heart of Darkness has the young Yoda killing the Bpfasshi master at Dagobah.

1. I never said that he didn't kill one during the Clone Wars. So, I don't know why you brought it up. In fact, I was referencing what happened prior to his exile, which would've be the Clone Wars.

2. Heart of Darkness is an Infinity. It's in the Tales series, and is listed as #16. As you probably already know (but, perhaps thought I wouldn't realize it) Tales #1-20 aren't canon. Unless the below were to happen, which it hasn't.

Seeing as how it hasn't been referenced or endorsed anywhere else, it is treated as non-canon. Nice try.

Funny, use a source that's been updated in the last five years.

Funny, use a source that is canon, and try not to pass it off as not being bullshit (above).

Attempting to save your argument by bashing a valid source will do you no good, as you'll find out. The source stands, until you provide evidence of the opposite, which you've yet to do.

There were three Bpfasshi Dark Jedi Yoda killed, apparently. And Yoda still managed to restrict the Dark Side on Dagobah

There was one that I know of, as the second you mentioned isn't canon. The third is still in question, but I'll believe you on that one, because it doesn't matter.

And no, Yoda didn't "restrict" shit. Stop making things up, Lightsnake. You know I respect, and like you, but this is ridiculous. Again, if Yoda did do anything to the dark side on Dagobah, prove up.

From what I've provided, and read - he didn't do anything at all, besides fight the Dark Jedi.

I got my info from Nai so I'll check with him.

You do that, then. Did it ever occur to you that *gasp* Nai's wrong? I've already proved that he misinterpreted materials once (or lied). So, it's not like Borbarad is omniscient.

However, the databank means almost less than nothing considering they updat emaybe once every five years

Right, Lightsnake. Can you please prove that? Maybe, I'll take your word for it, despite the fact that you aren't employed by anything remotely connected to LucasFilms, Ltd.

Nice try.

As well, it should be noted that were an inconsistency to arise, Leland Chee would've fixed it. That's his job, and I'm sure someone would've caught that by now.

By everyone and their mother? No. By Elite Jedi such as Mace, Yoda, Luke, Revan, Kyp and the like? Yes.

I never said that they couldn't block them (unlikely, anyways), but there is no possible way anyone from the PT can continuously defend against such an attack. Darth Sidious jumped from a Senate Pod! An amulet beam has more destructive potential by light years, and we can assume that it travels just as fast as a pod would (probably faster).

Really now? They're energy, and that's it.

So Mace Windu can defend against something equivalent to a turbolaser repeatedly? Puh-leaze.

If Kun continues pushing himself, someone's going to give out.

Yeah, the opposition. They'll die. Just because one may have a defense for something, doesn't mean they can block it ad infinitum. Especially when you consider its extreme power, and that it doubles each time. The first time Exar equipped the gauntlet, the beam was still immense, and ripped a hole through the gigantic Sith Wyrm, and still continued to travel.

They're also dodgeable

No one ever said they weren't, but if you are honestly going to sit there, and tell me that these folks can perpetually dodge beams that can get far larger than any human body, there's something wrong with your brain. I don't mean to be harsh, but seriously speaking, that'd be ludicrous to say they could do such a thing. He can and will fire them rapidly in succession. So, even were they able to move out of the way, there'd be another that follows right after (which is also more powerful).

and never tested against a strong Force User

Relevance? Oh? What's that? None? They don't need to be "tested". We know what they are, and what they do. If "they're energy, and that's it", then we've seen Jerec toss considerably less effective, and maiming energy at Kyle Katarn, who is a "strong force user".

and considering an entire race who used those Amulets were wiped out by the Jedi the Brotherhood of Darkness? They used Sith amulets, too. And they were reduced to cringing wrecks on Ruusan.

I don't seem to recall too many Sith Lords (I only remember one, to be specific) engaging in the battles, only Massassi and beasts. If you recall in Fall of the Sith Empire, "Seeing the other fighters retreat, the Massassi invaders push forwards!". And Sadow's illusions, which were the only thing that kept the Sith forces going, until they got ****ed up, and caused the loss.

I know that Kaan had an amulet, but can you show me a passage, or quote, perhaps, that says anyone aside from him had one? I'm not saying that they didn't, but I haven't read anything about the New Sith Wars.

In any case, even if they (BoD) did have them in their possession, were they gauntlets? For all I know, all it did was what Ulic's amulet had done.

No, I'm thinking the high level Jedi could definitely defend against those things.

You think that.

How long CAN Kun keep them up exactly?

Well, if he kept them going long enough for him to reduce the Massassi temple to a blazing room, and destroy half (if not more) of an entire Sith Wyrm before he mastered Sadow's teachings, then I'd say he can do so for an extremely long amount of time. He's now mastered all of what Sadow had to offered, gained mass amounts of information on them, and has grown far more powerful. He also didn't display any amount of exhaustion during his bout with the Sith Wyrm, so I'd also submit that they wouldn't really affect his stamina.

Barring a single instance of use against people who can't fight back, vs. the extermination of the mighty Ancient Sith, when every Sith Lord we saw could use one of them.

Did you ever consider that Exar's power was greater than that of any Ancient Sith? Or that his anger surpassed all of them? By the way, how many Sith Lords did we even see during those battles? I recall a grand total of one.

And I consider Exar to be in the top five most powerful Sith Lords

Sure, you do.

I just don't exactly see him taking people like Yoda and Mace and Luke.

In a lightsaber duel, I don't either. That's not because I wouldn't say were Exar to face off against Mace or Yoda in a contest of lightsaber, he wouldn't beat them, but only since there isn't any concrete proof to back up that'd he win. As you should already know, I don't make baseless assumptions, so I can't say he'd necessarily win.

In a straight Force battle? I definitely do see Exar beating Mace, and the like, and I've got a piece of the Hubble Space Telescope as a lens.

If Exar could take down post-DE Luke with a single technique, as a weak, 4,000 year old spirit (and using the greenhorn Kyp Durron), then I don't see how he cannot defeat someone like Mace Windu in the Force, or possibly Yoda.

According to the PotJ sourcebook, Yaddle knew it, apparently and learned her knowledge through holocrons. I'd say there's a point in the direction.

No, there's not. I suppose this means Freedon Nadd knew everything Exar had learned from Sadow, then? If it lists Yaddle as knowing it, why doesn't it list Yoda (when it also lists Thon)? I'd say that "direction" is nowhere.

Clearly, Lightsnake, your attempt to grasp at proverbially air is apparent. Nothing indicates that Yoda knew the technique (which is still irrelevant if he knew it, anyways!).

Moreover, force Light purges a Dark Side nexus, whether it be a place, spirit or a person.

Irrelevant.

Moreover, when have people, locations, and apparitions been noted as equivalent to objects? They aren't. Even if I was to presuppose that the technique has an effect on objects, Yoda isn't said to know it, and we cannot assume that he does, either.

Are you really trying to tell me that besides possibly blocking/redirecting them, one cannot affect these amulets at all?

No, I don't recall me ever saying or implying anything of the sort. You can remove the hand of which it's equipped on, the effect of which would render the uses void. Other than that, in terms of Force techniques that would directly affect the uses, yes.

@ Lightsnake and Darth Sexy:

You seem to take my position, and think I'm saying they are "unstoppable", when I'm not. There is a possibility that they could be blocked (I do find it unlikely that anyone short of Yoda could even attempt such a thing, however), but I find it nigh improbable that they could continuously do such.

I don't know Advent, I would find the blasts unblockable. You can't compare them to blasters. Since their power is based on the user's rage, I believe there's very little limit to how powerful they can become. And if they increase to 100,000 times, which we saw in DLOTS, I don'f see any Jedi blocking them.

Irrelevant misdirection. The one killed during the Clone Wars is the one that made the Dark Side Cave. These supposed "others" (prove up, by the way) obviously had no effect, because the cave was established during the Clone Wars.

1. I never said that he didn't kill one during the Clone Wars. So, I don't know why you brought it up. In fact, I was referencing what happened prior to his exile, which would've be the Clone Wars.

2. Heart of Darkness is an Infinity. It's in the Tales series, and is listed as #16. As you probably already know (but, perhaps thought I wouldn't realize it) Tales #1-20 aren't canon. Unless the below were to happen, which it hasn't.

Seeing as how it hasn't been referenced or endorsed anywhere else, it is treated as non-canon. Nice try.

Funny, use a source that is canon, and try not to pass it off as not being bullshit (above).

Attempting to save your argument by bashing a valid source will do you no good, as you'll find out. The source stands, until you provide evidence of the opposite, which you've yet to do.

There was one that I know of, as the second you mentioned isn't canon. The third is still in question, but I'll believe you on that one, because it doesn't matter.

And no, Yoda didn't "restrict" shit. Stop making things up, Lightsnake. You know I respect, and like you, but this is ridiculous. Again, if Yoda did do anything to the dark side on Dagobah, prove up.

From what I've provided, and read - he didn't do anything at all, besides fight the Dark Jedi.

You do that, then. Did it ever occur to you that *gasp* Nai's wrong? I've already proved that he misinterpreted materials once (or lied). So, it's not like Borbarad is omniscient.

Right, Lightsnake. Can you please prove that? Maybe, I'll take your word for it, despite the fact that you aren't employed by anything remotely connected to LucasFilms, Ltd.

As well, it should be noted that were an inconsistency to arise, Leland Chee would've fixed it. That's his job, and I'm sure someone would've caught that by now.

Again: How often does that thing update a character's profile?

I never said that they couldn't block them (unlikely, anyways), but there is no possible way anyone from the PT can continuously defend against such an attack. Darth Sidious jumped from a Senate Pod! An amulet beam has more destructive potential by light years, and we can assume that it travels just as fast as a pod would (probably faster).

So Mace Windu can defend against something equivalent to a turbolaser repeatedly? Puh-leaze.

Yeah, the opposition. They'll die. Just because one may have a defense for something, doesn't mean they can block it ad infinitum. Especially when you consider its extreme power, and that it doubles each time. The first time Exar equipped the gauntlet, the beam was still immense, and ripped a hole through the gigantic Sith Wyrm, and still continued to travel.

No one ever said they weren't, but if you are honestly going to sit there, and tell me that these folks can perpetually dodge beams that can get far larger than any human body, there's something wrong with your brain. I don't mean to be harsh, but seriously speaking, that'd be ludicrous to say they could do such a thing. He can and will fire them rapidly in succession. So, even were they able to move out of the way, there'd be another that follows right after (which is also more powerful).

Relevance? Oh? What's that? None? They don't need to be "tested". We know what they are, and what they do. If "they're energy, and that's it", then we've seen Jerec toss considerably less effective, and maiming energy at Kyle Katarn, who is a "strong force user".

PIS.

I don't seem to recall too many Sith Lords (I only remember one, to be specific) engaging in the battles, only Massassi and beasts. If you recall in Fall of the Sith Empire, "Seeing the other fighters retreat, the Massassi invaders push forwards!". And Sadow's illusions, which were the only thing that kept the Sith forces going, until they got ****ed up, and caused the loss.

I know that Kaan had an amulet, but can you show me a passage, or quote, perhaps, that says anyone aside from him had one? I'm not saying that they didn't, but I haven't read anything about the New Sith Wars.

In any case, even if they (BoD) did have them in their possession, were they gauntlets? For all I know, all it did was what Ulic's amulet had done.

You think that.

Well, if he kept them going long enough for him to reduce the Massassi temple to a blazing room, and destroy half (if not more) of an entire Sith Wyrm before he mastered Sadow's teachings, then I'd say he can do so for an extremely long amount of time. He's now mastered all of what Sadow had to offered, gained mass amounts of information on them, and has grown far more powerful. He also didn't display any amount of exhaustion during his bout with the Sith Wyrm, so I'd also submit that they wouldn't really affect his stamina.

Did you ever consider that Exar's power was greater than that of any Ancient Sith? Or that his anger surpassed all of them? By the way, how many Sith Lords did we even see during those battles? I recall a grand total of one.

Sure, you do.

In a lightsaber duel, I don't either. That's not because I wouldn't say were Exar to face off against Mace or Yoda in a contest of lightsaber, he wouldn't beat them, but only since there isn't any concrete proof to back up that'd he win. As you should already know, I don't make baseless assumptions, so I can't say he'd necessarily win.

In a straight Force battle? I definitely do see Exar beating Mace, and the like, and I've got a piece of the Hubble Space Telescope as a lens.

If Exar could take down post-DE Luke with a single technique, as a weak, 4,000 year old spirit (and using the greenhorn Kyp Durron), then I don't see how he cannot defeat someone like Mace Windu in the Force, or possibly Yoda.

No, there's not. I suppose this means Freedon Nadd knew everything Exar had learned from Sadow, then? If it lists Yaddle as knowing it, why doesn't it list Yoda (when it also lists Thon)? I'd say that "direction" is nowhere.[/Quote]
Considering one of the reasons Freedon murdered Naga was Naga not teaching him everything, the point is moot. And it exemplifies Yaddle for a few things....doesn't list Oppo knowing Morichro or Malacia in a few places, I think we know they did.

Moreover, when have people, locations, and apparitions been noted as equivalent to objects? They aren't. Even if I was to presuppose that the technique has an effect on objects, Yoda isn't said to know it, and we cannot assume that he does, either.

If Yaddle learned her knowledge from holocrons, then it's not a stretch to guess the same info would've been open to Yoda.

No, I don't recall me ever saying or implying anything of the sort. You can remove the hand of which it's equipped on, the effect of which would render the uses void. Other than that, in terms of Force techniques that would directly affect the uses, yes.

@ Lightsnake and Darth Sexy:

You seem to take my position, and think I'm saying they are "unstoppable", when I'm not. There is a possibility that they could be blocked (I do find it unlikely that anyone short of Yoda could even attempt such a thing, however), but I find it nigh improbable that they could continuously do such. [/B][/QUOTE]
Again: If you can block the first as such, why couldn't it be reflected as Yoda did to lightning-which, with barehands, it almost impossible to block as its.

And sorry if I'm seeming a bit low on things Advent, I'm going through a few rough things right now so I'm in an extremely poor mood

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Thrawn trilogy, I believe, establishes that a Dark Jedi arrived on Dagobah after Yoda took up residence.

And there'a also the short story Heart of Darkness, with Young Yoda has him killing a Dark Jedi who leaves an impression of the Dark Side on the cave

Heart of Darkness isn't an infinity, it's canonicity is debated, but it's not discarded. Being in 1-16 doesn't mean it's automatically invalid, as you should know

Oh, please....

1. Instead of jumping on 'Tales 1-16, not canon!' When it actually, y'know, factors into Yoda's early life and has no disputes regarding it....haven't heard Chee mention it as N-canon, either. Or an infinity.

And the databank is valid...how?

Hm, yeah. When you find me a way how the databank factors into the canon, and when they regularly update, it can stand next to other EU sources. Doesn't it match the definition of S-canon as is?

Again: How often does that thing update a character's profile?

In all probability, someone fast as Mace or Yoda could simply dodge it.

And That it would even touch Mace given the Vaapad abilities he has? Yeah, I doubt it

Hm, let me think abou-Yes.

Give me a break. You'd think the ancients were never wiped out then..Sheer fact remains: If they can be blocked one time, the defender can continue to block them. Somehow I doubt Exar can keep going foreber

Perpetually? Hardly. They won't need to since they'll be able to use those nice acrobatic skills the first time.

If Exar misses, he'd die, plain and simple. How much ground can a Jedi like Mace, Luke and Yoda, y'know, the ones who don't even REGISTER to usual sight...how much ground will they cover?

How agile are they? How the hell with exar even be able to keep his sihts on them long enough to raise his arm and fire?

So, yeah, them moving will probably mean he's unable to lock on specifically, unless you'll argue they'll just be standing still after the first dodge

And an untrained one, forget that? Although if you want to be technical, according to the dark Force saga, Kyle used the wall of Light on Jerec and cut him off from the Force before slicing him almost in half.

Oh, yeah, advent, they need to be tested instead of just deciding no matter what happens Exar will win because they're so 'speshul'

Originally posted by Faunus
Passages, quotes?

Which is from SW Tales - the series that has Han and Chewie crashlanding on Earth, the latter becoming the fabled Sasquatch, and the former being killed by Native Americans and having his body and ship discovered by Indiana Jones. Real credible.

Well, you haven't done a considerable job of proving that anyone can get away from them, so if they get the ground blasted out from under them, or the ceiling plopped on their heads, it's not going to them any good to be able to block it.

At widest, it went through the Sith Wyrm's mouth and last I checked, Mace and Yoda can move at insane speeds-something Kun has never demonstrated- and are capable of jumping very high up. Unless these are gargantuan DBZ blasts that can rip all across earth, they're not above what the Jedi capabilities have shown.

Turning powerful Sith acolytes into charred bones, you mean. 😛

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Thrawn trilogy, I believe, establishes that a Dark Jedi arrived on Dagobah after Yoda took up residence.

Again, irrelevant misdirection. Restating it doesn't change the fact that the Dark Side Cave on Dagobah was established prior to Yoda's exile, during the Clone Wars.

And there'a also the short story Heart of Darkness, with Young Yoda has him killing a Dark Jedi who leaves an impression of the Dark Side on the cave

Which is non-canon. Let's take a minute, and just "pretend" it is canon (although, it's not; see below). What relevance does this have? How does this affect our debate? Yoda didn't do anything then, either:

Heart of Darkness isn't an infinity, it's canonicity is debated, but it's not discarded. Being in 1-16 doesn't mean it's automatically invalid, as you should know

1.) Unless referenced elsewhere, it is automatically invalid.

2.) Heart of Darkness is not sponsored by any source other than its own, ergo its default placement is as an Infinity.

3.) Where's its (no apostrophe) validness argued at, Lightsnake? One of your happy-go-lucky, moron forums? Show me what officials have ever remarked that it might be canon, until then you have no case, so I'd advise you to stop while you're behind.

Oh, please.

You trying to act as if I'm wrong doesn't really help you at all, especially because I'm right.

1. Instead of jumping on 'Tales 1-16, not canon!' When it actually, y'know, factors into Yoda's early life and has no disputes regarding it

You clearly have no idea how the Star Wars Tales series work. It doesn't matter if no inconsistency arises, it's the fact that it is not mentioned anywhere else.

What you're saying is that by having no disputes, it is thusly canon? That's begging the question: then any story in #1-16 that don't appear to have any inconsistency (but are not referenced elsewhere), can be considered as being canon? You're ridiculous.

I'll reiterate: Prove that it's canon. You can't, because it isn't. Indeed, how can it be canon when there's an inconsistency?

Faunus was absolutely right. Yoda is 192 years old during that comic, when he was stated to have been training Jedi for eight centuries. Unless you're honestly going to tell me that Yoda was still a Jedi Knight at 192 years old (rofl!).

"Seven hundred years before the Battle of Yavin...", it gives us a clear date. QED. Convinced now, sweety?

haven't heard Chee mention it as N-canon, either. Or an infinity.

I haven't heard Leland Chee mention The Hovel on Terk Street (#6) as "N"-canon, or label it an Infinity, does that mean it's canon? No. When you step out of your box, you can see that Tales #1-16 are rendered void in terms of canon unless noted by a higher source of canon.

And the databank is valid...how?

Faunus explained this already, which was correct. Were you deprived of school, Lightsnake?

If there is an inconsistency, Leland Chee would've fixed it. The fact of the matter is that the databank mentions this on two separate accounts. Are you employed by anything remotely connected to LucasFilms, Ltd.?

I'm opposing the idea it's invalid. In dispute maybe

It's painfully obvious you know you're wrong, where is it "in dispute", Lightsnake? Where do any officials have any doubts? Oh? Nowhere?

but I haven't heard it relegated to the infinities pile

Well, then I'd advise you to clean your ears out.

Didn't I just say I heard it from Nai there?

I see you've avoided the question, I'll take note of that. So, I'll pose it again: And no, Yoda didn't "restrict" shit. Stop making things up, Lightsnake. You know I respect, and like you, but this is ridiculous. Again, if Yoda did do anything to the dark side on Dagobah, prove up.

The Nai Database isn't going to help you, you made the claim - where you got it from is irrelevant - seeing as the onus is on you (not Nai) to prove up, which you've yet to do.

You know something, Advent, don't you start on me there when you did the exact thing with IKC's argument.

Funny, I only recall me expanding on IKC's arguments (for example, IKC would claim that Stackpole's work is "secondary", whereas I would provide evidence compiled from the JA Sourcebook to counter anything you would toss out).

Anyways, the difference is that I don't get my information from I Killed Commiesville, I research it on my own, and make sure it's right.

Do not start acting up to me there when you have zero highground to do so.

What the hell are you babbling on about now? Originally, all I said was that Borbarad was wrong. Explain how I'm "acting up".

Sorry if I sound frustrated there, but I'm having a very poor day

It's excused, I can understand where you're coming from. You can take out all your frustration on me via the internet, lol.

Hm, yeah. When you find me a way how the databank factors into the canon, and when they regularly update, it can stand next to other EU sources. Doesn't it match the definition of S-canon as is?

1.) "S"-canon.

There is a secondary "S" continuity classification used for older published materials created when there was less attention to making everything in the EU fit with everything else in the EU. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". (Leland Chee, What is the Holocron?)

2.) I'm not sure why would question how "valid" the databank is, other than reasons to attempt to save your argument. I suppose you thought I wasn't intelligent enough to defeat this point (Buddha knows why you would, though; just a guess)? The databank is made to be consistent with the EU, and the films.

They updated the databank within the last two years, more importantly Yoda's profile in the Expanded Universe, because there is information from the Clone Wars microseries, and Revenge of the Sith (movie) in his profile.

So, your assertion begs the question: why would they leave now false information (if it were incorrect)?

Again: How often does that thing update a character's profile?

It updated Yoda's profile sometime between May 19, 2005 and now. Which would mean that: a.) the Dark Side Cave was formed during the Clone Wars, b.) Yoda's information regarding what happened in the formation of the Dark Side Cave is correct, and c.) that you're wrong.

Oh, please! You base this on what?

The fact that the beams' destructive energy grows with each blast, and the sheer power behind each beam is so extreme that it can disintegrate living beings.

Where was Yoda shown to block something akin to that? And, not to mention, repeatedly.

Hint: Leland Chee has stated that the microseries is an aggrandizement of Jedi abilities, ergo it's not an accurate assumption to say their movie or novel counterparts can do the same.

"One other thing to keep in mind is that the target audience for the cartoons and the novels is different so they will each have a different approach to storytelling. As a result, certain action scenes and Jedi abilities sometimes will be exagerated in the cartoon..." (and yes, he did misspell "exaggerated".)

Which can be found in the EU Leadup to Revenge of the Sith topic.

"Omg, he jumped from a senate pod thrown by Yoda!" Wow, that's so equivalent to actually blocked/absorbing energy.

A senate pod is more intimidating than those? Pfft, yeah. It's the fact that for such a god, he fled from it. What's there to assume they won't do the same were something unfamiliar to them (Yoda, at least), and more massive, and powerful is launched at them? I'm sure they would attempt to block it, Lightsnake, especially considering they don't even know what it is.

Yeah. Great evidence there. In all probability, someone fast as Mace or Yoda could simply dodge it.

Right, Lightsnake. I'll assume you're correct because you've provided such convincing evidence. It's safe to assume that the amulet blasts can be fired at an immensely high speed (otherwise, Kun'd be dead), Yoda's speed almost got a senate pod stuck up his ass, what makes you believe beams that can be fired with no downtime, and cover a larger area will be so easily dodged?

I love how you claim Faunus is "overrating Exar", when you're aggrandizing the Jedi's abilities to the same degree the Clone Wars cartoons do.

And That it would even touch Mace given the Vaapad abilities he has? Yeah, I doubt it

I lol'd.

Mace's Vaapad will do what exactly? Elaborate.

Hm, let me think abou-Yes.

You know, as far back as I can remember, people who make extraordinary claims have the burden of proof on them. Time to prove up or shut up, Lightsnake.

So, when you have evidence to support you claims, give me a ring.

Give me a break.

You're asking me? Have you actually reviewed what you've written?

You'd think the ancients were never wiped out then..Sheer fact remains: If they can be blocked one time, the defender can continue to block them. Somehow I doubt Exar can keep going foreber

Oh, I totally doubt he'll be going foreber, but "forever"? No, but, long enough to reduce the opposition's body to mere particles.

Your logic is also off the charts here. "If they can be blocked once, they can be blocked twice". Funny how you disregard the fact that "with every pulse of [Kun's] anger the amulet doubles the power of its discharge". By the way, I suppose Yoda can always defend against Darth Sidious' lightning because he did so once? No, as we saw he was eventually overpowered. It would be a similar scenario here, of course, I'm presupposing he even manages to block it the first time.

Perpetually? Hardly. They won't need to since they'll be able to use those nice acrobatic skills the first time.

Those "nice acrobatic skills"? You mean the ones that they mysteriously didn't display (perhaps, you have the special, extended, super, ultimate, widescreen format version of the prequel trilogy)? You honestly seem to believe that these Jedi can avoid, and sidestep such a enormous attack, and it's ludicrous.

The beams are gargantuan in magnitude, there's honestly no way in hell they can dodge them repeatedly.

If Exar misses, he'd die, plain and simple.

Oh, really? I could've sworn to Buddha that Exar wasn't an immobile boulder. Wait, let me just check.

Yeah, yep. Exar can move, according to the comics he's featured in. He also moves while using the amulet beam. We can also assume he knows Force speed, as that's one of the basic moves that even TPM Obi-Wan knew, and I'd find it hard to believe that Exar doesn't know Force speed.

I could just as well say that Exar renders the opponent's lightsaber useless, as seen here:

"Kyp made a dismissive gesture with one hand, and a sudden wave of dark ripples splashed across the air like the shock front from a concussion grenade. Luke stumbled backward. The lightsaber turned cold in his hand. Frost crystals grew in feathery patterns around the handle. At the core of the brilliant green blade a shadow appeared, a black disease rotting away the purity of the beam. The humming blade sputtered, sounding like a sickly cough. The black taint rapidly grew stronger, swallowing up the green beam. With a fizzle of sparks Luke's lightsaber died." (Dark Apprentice, Ch.

Now, while it was Kyp who actually demonstrated the power, the Jedi Academy Sourcebook states that Exar taught Kyp such powers (page 50).

How much ground can a Jedi like Mace, Luke and Yoda, y'know, the ones who don't even REGISTER to usual sight...how much ground will they cover?

Don't "register" to standard sight? I clearly saw Yoda, and Mace move in the highest form of canon, and I'm not even Force-sensitive.

How agile are they? How the hell with exar even be able to keep his sihts on them long enough to raise his arm and fire?

A neophyte farmboy, who had five seconds of training, didn't seem to have too much trouble deflecting blaster bolts after not being able to even see the remote. And, I would have to assume this would be why General Grievous wiped his metal ass with Obi-Wan Keno-- oh, wait. He didn't.

"Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."

So, yeah, them moving will probably mean he's unable to lock on specifically, unless you'll argue they'll just be standing still after the first dodge

You're assuming that there's even going to be a first missed attack.

In all actuality, even if I were to say they'd miss once, there's another beam that's more powerful that follows right behind it, considering their magnitude, how do you actually suppose their going to continuously do such a thing?

And an untrained one, forget that?

Yes, and this doesn't necessarily lessen what Jerec did, if you consider his amazing credentials during the saga. Even for being so untrained, he was able to best the likes of seven Dark Jedi, and displayed a prodiguous use of the Force. For reference, see: Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Kyle Katarn.

Although if you want to be technical, according to the dark Force saga, Kyle used the wall of Light on Jerec and cut him off from the Force before slicing him almost in half.

Irrelevant misdirection. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Jerec formed energy into beams, and used them on an already powerful Force user.

Oh, yeah, advent, they need to be tested instead of just deciding no matter what happens Exar will win because they're so 'speshul'

Misrepresentation, much? When did I say that Exar will "always win"? Against whom, precisely, are you even speaking?

They aren't diet pills, Lightsnake. We know exactly what they are, and we've witnessed what they do.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Evil Never Dies, the Sith Dynasties.

I don't recall me actually asking for the source. If you'll take note, I said, "can you show me a passage, or quote, perhaps that says anyone aside from him had one".

With that being said, can you show me a passage, or quote, perhaps that says anyone aside from him had one?

Palpatine later gave one of his amulets to Vader.

Irrelevant. I'm fairly certain I don't give a shit.

And there's also Darth rUin

Can you back up your claims about Darth Ruin with proof?

Darth Rivan

Can you back up your claims about Darth Rivan with proof?

Belia Darzu,

Can you back up your claims about Belia Darzu with proof?

the Dark Underlord,

Can you back up your claims about Dark Underlord with proof?

Considering they were amulets as to be worn on one's own hand

Care to actually substantiate that claim now? We see Ulic's amulet is worn around his neck, and again, this doesn't necessarily mean that the highest effect the aforementioned could use the amulets with was any greater than that of Ulic's.

I think it's open and shut-Vader wore his own under Mandalorian Crushgaunt

So, because Darth Vader wears it under his gauntlet, everyone before him must, too?

Until I see someone give me an argument besides 'EXAR IS SPESHUL!' think I will.

But, you haven't provided any strong evidence to the contrary. However, if you're satisfied living in the type of realm where the opposition has to disprove your burden of proof, then that's fine with me.

You're telling me there's now ay to disarm/disable these things now?

Originally posted by Advent
No, I don't recall me ever saying or implying anything of the sort. You can remove the hand of which it's equipped on, the effect of which would render the uses void. Other than that, in terms of Force techniques that would directly affect the uses, yes.

I'd also submit that, again, against a Force user of his, or above his power? The ones like Luke who can shield himself from and absorb blasts form an AT AT?

Exar Kun isn't firing from an AT-AT.

Yoda who can hurl around 300 M long ships and block missles from a hailfire droid?

Where does he do any of this?

Wait, let me guess. I'll take the Clone Wars cartoon for $500, Alex. This is a show where the Jedi's abilities are exaggerated, and if you honestly believe that I'm going to assume something like that is actually within his limits, you're mistaken. But, if they aren't from that source, where?

Two in the Invasion Force. Others were mentioned on the ships.

Which doesn't bode well for your position, seeing as how those ships would've been destroyed.

However, dialogue and others being what they are, it's pretty definite there were others who didn't accompany Naga's group.

What "dialogue" are you referring to? I'm talking specifics here.

If the Ancient Sith Lords as a whole simply had to stand at the forefront, blasting at the Jedi, however did they survive?

What the hell are you even talking about? They didn't do any of this, and we only saw one Sith Lord in the attacking group.

If you are suggesting that they could do this, then I'd say "proof any of the Sith Lords could use the amulets to any degree higher than Ulic?". Anyways, they didn't do this because they had Naga Sadow's illusions, which would've conquered the Republic had they not been foiled.

Somehow I doubt rhe Ancient Sith were ignorant of their amulets

I never said they were. I question the degree to which they can use them, although the more likely case is that there weren't any Sith Lords sky diving onto the battlefield, just to use something they - at the time - didn't need to use.

As well, I don't recall seeing every Sith Lord wearing one, I'll check tonight, but really - both the Jedi and Massassi had garb on their hands that resembles the gauntlets. I can only recall one pussy Sith Lord with an amulet during the battle. So, in this specific case, I would definitely wonder how effective he could wield the artifact.

In a pure force duel, then I could see that. On the other hand, Mace isn't afraid to use purely offensive Force Powers on Exar

Which means precisely dick. Where were these boasted powers against Darth Sidious? Oh, he turned his lightning against him. I'm blown away!

He's used Force crush one time, Exar Kun is far more adept at dark side powers, and his knowledge on them in above and beyond Mace's.

Weak?

Yes, Lightsnake - weak. Very simple word, I believe it's covered starting from preschool, and up.

I'm fairly certain we just had this conversation, where you failed to produce any evidence of your claims when I called into question your wild assertions.

After the energy he got from Gantoris?

Oh, my, yes, how could I forget that! He drained Gantoris' life force, which only supplied him with a minimal amount of energy:

"Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students." (Jedi Academy Sourcebook, p. 49)

Well, **** me swinging, Lightsnake! What a massive boost of power he received. Excuse me, while I laugh out loud at the mere thought behind the sentence you've made.

After being able to access his old resources like the GOlden Globe after that?

You mean the ones that he didn't access? Good to know you're still lying. I've already shown evidence of the contrary, and the actual source materials say nothing of the sort. The Golden Globe isn't even so much as mentioned.

To repeat myself: see this thread, where I make matters clear. Oh, hey, isn't that you who's trying to argue against me? I would've thought you'd have learned your lesson.

And this would be so much more impressive if he wasn't double teaming a surprised Luke from behind with several different techniques from the two at once.

"Suprised"? Kyp attacked Luke's lightsaber, yet Luke wasn't prepared afterwards?

"Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic.

Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadow of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force. The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke's body.

Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him-but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly." (Dark Apprentice, p. 339)

We see that Luke tried to defend himself against Kyp's attack prior to him actually assaulting him with it. As well, Luke tried to counterattack, so it's not as if he was completely unaware. In addition to that, he knew Exar Kun was there, anyways:

"...the dark man who had lured Gantoris into a devastating loss of control. Kyp's voice came as if from a great distance. "At last, Master Skywalker, you can meet my mentor--Exar Kun."

What's next, could Lumiya stand a decent chance against Mace and Yoda? She put up a decent fight against LOTF Luke.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
She did well against Luke because she got a hit in when he was worried about his wife. That simple.

😆

Or do we chalk it up to bad inconsistencies from bad authors?

No, we "chalk it up" to you putting up a bullshit defense. Which, just for your information, will get you nowhere.

Considering one of the reasons Freedon murdered Naga was Naga not teaching him everything, the point is moot.

The point isn't "moot" just because you don't know what you're talking about, Lightsnake. Freedon Nadd had access to everything Exar had access to. To quote tDSSB:

"[...] plundering Sadow's treasure vaults for whatever he could haul away." (p. 72)

So, by what passes for logic in your world, just because Nadd had access to what Exar he must know everything Kun did from Sadow's teachings, or vice versa. FYI, if you can read properly, I didn't say "Nadd must know everything Sadow does", as that's what I assume you think I said.

And it exemplifies Yaddle for a few things....doesn't list Oppo knowing Morichro or Malacia in a few places, I think we know they did.

1.) It wouldn't list Oppo as knowing Morichro because it's not listed as one of the force skills in the book.

2.) It lists Oppo as knowing Malacia in the sourcebook. I can provide a scan if need be, but do you even know what you're talking about? Because I don't.

If Yoda did know Force Light, it would've listed him as knowing such. It doesn't, so he doesn't, unless he's demonstrated such an ability in any other canon material, which he hasn't.

You mean the guy who spent a full...what, 700 years learning everything he could?

Suddenly, I find it hard to believe he spent 700 years studying techniques, considering the multitude of students he's trained, and the time spent on issues within the Jedi Order, and the Republic.

He isn't said to have known the technique, he's never shown the technique, therefore you're blindly assuming he knows it? Lovely logic, Lightsnake (rolls off the tongue).

If that's the case, Exar Kun wins via Force storm, since the knowledge was available.

And unless objects have some sort of protection field that protects them from being directly affected, then I'm not seeing how they're suddenly invulnerable to all Force techniques.

Such as? Prove up, what attack is going to cause any direct harm to the amulet itself, or even nullify it?

If Yaddle learned her knowledge from holocrons, then it's not a stretch to guess the same info would've been open to Yoda.

Exar Kun learned his knowledge from the Ancient Sith, so it's not a stretch to guess he knows X, Y, and Z attacks that people who learned from the Ancient Sith had!

It is a stretch to assume that he has some type of power that he's never used, or been said to know. You're being completely illogical, Lightsnake. Does Yoda know every Lightside technique that's available? Just because he's old?

[Lightsnake Logic] Yoda knows battle meditation, but he was never said to. He just does! Yoda knows how to sever people from the Force, but he was never said to. He just does! [/Lightsnake Logic]

Anymore absurd assertions? He doesn't know the power, and your attempts at trying to prove such a thing are devoid of logic. If he knew it, he would be listed to know it. Since he isn't, he doesn't know it.

This is based on...what exactly? There are no force technqiues to directly affect Sith objects and artifacts then?

You tell me. The onus is on you to prove the affirmative (that they can be affected), not me to prove the negative.

In the massive millenia long war between the New Sith empires and the years battrling the Old Sith Empires, the Jedi decided to flounder around uselessly?

PIS, perhaps? I'm still waiting for your evidence to justify your claims that anyone outside of Kaan had a Sith amulet, and either knew how to effectively use it to the degree Exar had. Ditto with the Sith Empire, who we've only seen like, the Sith Council sport those gauntlets (if I recall correctly, I'll check when I get back).

In the Complete Visual dicitonary, we have actual proof of top Jedi Masters using knowledge of the Dark Side and the sith holocrons to learn how to counter the Sith abilities and powers.

Proof? Even if you provide proof, then provide more proof that this includes: a) Ancient Sith techniques, b) objects, and artifacts.

Indeed, what reason would PT Jedi have to learn such things when there weren't even any Sith around for a millennia, or so they thought? Much less Ancient Sith techniques.

I'd consider post-DE Luke a "top Jedi Master", yet he had no defense against Exar Kun's attack; even the techniques your green god, Yoda, taught him were ineffective.

And sorry if I'm seeming a bit low on things Advent, I'm going through a few rough things right now so I'm in an extremely poor mood

NP. Next post, I'll try to be a little more kind.

Damn. Badass rebuttal.

Well, it could've been reduced down to two posts had I not added in any sarcasm, unneeded comments, and the like, but meh. Too late for that, but I will say that I'd hate to see the reply, even if Lightsnake used one sentence per point. Long replies suck.

At any rate, that was some good reading, all 45 minutes of it.

I just wondered, and this is only a question....

If Exar uses the amulet, if anyone throws out a force power against him while they dodge it (like a quick burst of speed to the side and throws out a push on the run), will he likely be able to defend against it?

1.) Unless referenced elsewhere, it is automatically invalid.

2.) Heart of Darkness is not sponsored by any source other than its own, ergo its default placement is as an Infinity.

3.) Where's its (no apostrophe) validness argued at, Lightsnake? One of your happy-go-lucky, moron forums? Show me what officials have ever remarked that it might be canon, until then you have no case, so I'd advise you to stop while you're behind.

You trying to act as if I'm wrong doesn't really help you at all, especially because I'm right.

[Quote
You clearly have no idea how the Star Wars Tales series work. It doesn't matter if no inconsistency arises, it's the fact that it is not mentioned anywhere else.[/Quote]
And again: So what? you have any proof of this? Is Vader's battle with the Dark Woman invalid? Deal With a Demon? Yaddle's Tale?
Tides of Terror?
Not many of those have had other references, yet theyr'e all considered Canon by the Holocron

What you're saying is that by having no disputes, it is thusly canon? That's begging the question: then any story in #1-16 that don't appear to have any inconsistency (but are not referenced elsewhere), can be considered as being canon? You're ridiculous.

I'll reiterate: Prove that it's canon. You can't, because it isn't. Indeed, how can it be canon when there's an inconsistency?

Faunu was absolutely right. Yoda is 192 years old during that comic, when he was stated to have been training Jedi for eight centuries. Unless you're honestly going to tell me that Yoda was still a Jedi Knight at 192 years old (rofl!).

"Seven hundred years before the Battle of Yavin...", it gives us a clear date. QED. Convinced now, sweety?

I haven't heard Leland Chee mention The Hovel on Terk Street (#6) as "N"-canon, or label it an Infinity, does that mean it's canon? No. When you step out of your box, you can see that Tales #1-16 are rendered void in terms of canon unless noted by a higher source of canon.

Faunus explained this already, which was correct. Were you deprived of school, Lightsnake?

I see you've avoided the question, I'll take note of that. So, I'll pose it again: And no, Yoda didn't "restrict" shit. Stop making things up, Lightsnake. You know I respect, and like you, but this is ridiculous. Again, if Yoda did do anything to the dark side on Dagobah, prove up.

The Nai Database isn't going to help you, you made the claim - where you got it from is irrelevant - seeing as the onus is on you (not Nai) to prove up, which you've yet to do.

Funny, I only recall me expanding on IKC's arguments (for example, IKC would claim that Stackpole's work is "secondary", whereas I would provide evidence compiled from the JA Sourcebook to counter anything you would toss out).

What the hell are you babbling on about now? Originally, all I said was that Borbarad was wrong. Explain how I'm "acting up".

It's excused, I can understand where you're coming from. You can take out all your frustration on me via the internet, lol.

The fact that the beams' destructive energy grows with each blast, and the sheer power behind each beam is so extreme that it can disintegrate living beings.

Where was Yoda shown to block something akin to that? And, not to mention, repeatedly.

Hint: Leland Chee has stated that the microseries is an aggrandizement of Jedi abilities, ergo it's not an accurate assumption to say their movie or novel counterparts can do the same.

"One other thing to keep in mind is that the target audience for the cartoons and the novels is different so they will each have a different approach to storytelling. As a result, certain action scenes and Jedi abilities sometimes will be exagerated in the cartoon..." (and yes, he did misspell "exaggerated".)

A senate pod is more intimidating than those? Pfft, yeah. It's the fact that for such a god, he fled from it. What's there to assume they won't do the same were something unfamiliar to them (Yoda, at least), and more massive, and powerful is launched at them? I'm sure they would attempt to block it, Lightsnake, especially considering they don't even know what it is.

Right, Lightsnake. I'll assume you're correct because you've provided such convincing evidence. It's safe to assume that the amulet blasts can be fired at an immensely high speed (otherwise, Kun'd be dead), Yoda's speed almost got a senate pod stuck up his ass, what makes you believe beams that can be fired with no downtime, and cover a larger area will be so easily dodged?

I love how you claim Faunus is "overrating Exar", when you're aggrandizing the Jedi's abilities to the same degree the Clone Wars cartoons do.

I lol'd.

Mace's Vaapad will do what exactly? Elaborate.

Yeah, something only the strongest Jedi masters can actually do? Oh, and Exar will be prepared for the Force crush coming from a Jedi Master? He'll be able to anticipate and counter it? Especially if Mace is able to detect his shatterpoint? Same way you can automatically assume Exar will get a perfectly infallible, undodgeable hit with those amulets

Yes, Lightsnake - weak. Very simple word, I believe it's covered starting from preschool, and up.

I'm fairly certain we just had this conversation, where you failed to produce any evidence of your claims when I called into question your wild assertions.

You mean the ones that he didn't access? Good to know you're still lying. I've already shown evidence of the contrary, and the actual source materials say nothing of the sort. The Golden Globe isn't even so much as mentioned.

To repeat myself: see this thread, where I make matters clear. Oh, hey, isn't that you who's trying to argue against me? I would've thought you'd have learned your lesson.

"Suprised"? Kyp attacked Luke's lightsaber, yet Luke wasn't prepared afterwards?

"Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic.

Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadow of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force. The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke's body.

Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him-but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly." (Dark Apprentice, p. 339)

We see that Luke tried to defend himself against Kyp's attack prior to him actually assaulting him with it. As well, Luke tried to counterattack, so it's not as if he was completely unaware. In addition to that, he knew Exar Kun was there, anyways:

"...the dark man who had lured Gantoris into a devastating loss of control. Kyp's voice came as if from a great distance. "At last, Master Skywalker, you can meet my mentor--Exar Kun."

No, we "chalk it up" to you putting up a bullshit defense. Which, just for your information, will get you nowhere.

The point isn't "moot" just because you don't know what you're talking about, Lightsnake. Freedon Nadd had access to everything Exar had access to. To quote tDSSB:

"[...] plundering Sadow's treasure vaults for whatever he could haul away." (p. 72)

So, by what passes for logic in your world, just because Nadd had access to what Exar he must know everything Kun did from Sadow's teachings, or vice versa. FYI, if you can read properly, I didn't say "Nadd must know everything Sadow does", as that's what I assume you think I said.

Suddenly, I find it hard to believe he spent 700 years studying techniques, considering the multitude of students he's trained, and the time spent on issues within the Jedi Order, and the Republic.

He isn't said to have known the technique, he's never shown the technique, therefore you're blindly assuming he knows it? Lovely logic, Lightsnake (rolls off the tongue).

If that's the case, Exar Kun wins via Force storm, since the knowledge was available.

Such as? Prove up, what attack is going to cause any direct harm to the amulet itself, or even nullify it?

Exar Kun learned his knowledge from the Ancient Sith, so it's not a stretch to guess he knows X, Y, and Z attacks that people who learned from the Ancient Sith had!

It is a stretch to assume that he has some type of power that he's never used, or been said to know. You're being completely illogical, Lightsnake. Does Yoda know every Lightside technique that's available? Just because he's old?

You tell me. The onus is on you to prove the affirmative (that they can be affected), not me to prove the negative.

PIS, perhaps? I'm still waiting for your evidence to justify your claims that anyone outside of Kaan had a Sith amulet, and either knew how to effectively use it to the degree Exar had. Ditto with the Sith Empire, who we've only seen like, the Sith Council sport those gauntlets (if I recall correctly, I'll check when I get back).

Proof? Even if you provide proof, then provide more proof that this includes: a) Ancient Sith techniques, b) objects, and artifacts.

Indeed, what reason would PT Jedi have to learn such things when there weren't even any Sith around for a millennia, or so they thought? Much less Ancient Sith techniques.

I'd consider post-DE Luke a "top Jedi Master", yet he had no defense against Exar Kun's attack; even the techniques your green god, Yoda, taught him were ineffective.

And again, do you really think in the limited time they actually had together, Yoda would bring up things like 'ok, in the event of a 4000 year old spirit and your best student attacking you, you..."
Given the limited time Luke had with both of his teachers, I doubt they had time to mention any such thing. Hell, Luke left when his training was still incomplete.

And Luke, if you recall, was being attacked on both sides from people of pretty significant power.

As for Sith not being around for a millenia? We have:

Visual Guide states that the Sith holocrons have been used whenever Sith have been threats
Dooku tells Quinlan Vos the apprentice waits for his master to 'die in battle, or of natural causes.'
We have reports of some sith going rogue like Darth Millenial
We have Yoda's knowledge of the Rule of 2.

It's quite probable some Sith of Bane's order managed to clash with Jedi here and there.

And on that subject, Advent, just to limit the reply: Why exactly would the amulet be totally immune from any force attacks or ability? Granted, you're putting up a good case for it, but the fact does remain: Exar has never used it on powerful Force users. Because he's never needed to, granted, but Yoda and Mace are the two most powerful Jedi up to the PT.

Also, viable, we assume Exar's going to get a blast off. We've no idea how long that actually takes or if Yoda and Mace can't react faster before he can.

And again, did you forget how that little battle with Palpatine's lightning ended? If Yoda can take the energy the same way, then yes, it bodes badly for Kun, because he'll have it reflected right back at him.

Those "nice acrobatic skills"? You mean the ones that they mysteriously didn't display (perhaps, you have the special, extended, super, ultimate, widescreen format version of the prequel trilogy)? You honestly seem to believe that these Jedi can avoid, and sidestep such a enormous attack, and it's ludicrous.

The beams are gargantuan in magnitude, there's honestly no way in hell they can dodge them repeatedly.

Oh, really? I could've sworn to Buddha that Exar wasn't an immobile boulder. Wait, let me just check.

Yeah, yep. Exar can move, according to the comics he's featured in. He also moves while using the amulet beam. We can also assume he knows Force speed, as that's one of the basic moves that even TPM Obi-Wan knew, and I'd find it hard to believe that Exar doesn't know Force speed.

I could just as well say that Exar renders the opponent's lightsaber useless, as seen here:

"Kyp made a dismissive gesture with one hand, and a sudden wave of dark ripples splashed across the air like the shock front from a concussion grenade. Luke stumbled backward. The lightsaber turned cold in his hand. Frost crystals grew in feathery patterns around the handle. At the core of the brilliant green blade a shadow appeared, a black disease rotting away the purity of the beam. The humming blade sputtered, sounding like a sickly cough. The black taint rapidly grew stronger, swallowing up the green beam. With a fizzle of sparks Luke's lightsaber died." (Dark Apprentice, Ch.

Don't "register" to standard sight? I clearly saw Yoda, and Mace move in the highest form of canon, and I'm not even Force-sensitive.

A neophyte farmboy, who had five seconds of training, didn't seem to have too much trouble deflecting blaster bolts after not being able to even see the remote. And, I would have to assume this would be why General Grievous wiped his metal ass with Obi-Wan Keno-- oh, wait. He didn't.

"Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."

You're assuming that there's even going to be a first missed attack.

In all actuality, even if I were to say they'd miss once, there's another beam that's more powerful that follows right behind it, considering their magnitude, how do you actually suppose their going to continuously do such a thing?

Or are they not going to worry about killing him and just continue running around, rather than use the Force after the first dodge?

Yes, and this doesn't necessarily lessen what Jerec did, if you consider his amazing credentials during the saga. Even for being so untrained, he was able to best the likes of seven Dark Jedi, and displayed a prodiguous use of the Force. For reference, see: Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Kyle Katarn.

Irrelevant misdirection. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Jerec formed energy into beams, and used them on an already powerful Force user.

Misrepresentation, much? When did I say that Exar will "always win"? Against whom, precisely, are you even speaking?

They aren't diet pills, Lightsnake. We know exactly what they are, and we've witnessed what they do.

I don't recall me actually asking for the source. If you'll take note, I said, "can you show me a passage, or quote, perhaps that says anyone aside from him had one".

With that being said, can you show me a passage, or quote, perhaps that says anyone aside from him had one?

Can you back up your claims about Darth Ruin with proof?

Can you back up your claims about Darth Rivan with proof?

Can you back up your claims about Belia Darzu with proof?

Can you back up your claims about Dark Underlord with proof?

Care to actually substantiate that claim now? We see Ulic's amulet is worn around his neck, and again, this doesn't necessarily mean that the highest effect the aforementioned could use the amulets with was any greater than that of Ulic's.

So, because Darth Vader wears it under his gauntlet, everyone before him must, too?

Exar Kun isn't firing from an AT-AT.

Where does he do any of this?

Wait, let me guess. I'll take the Clone Wars cartoon for $500, Alex. This is a show where the Jedi's abilities are exaggerated, and if you honestly believe that I'm going to assume something like that is actually within his limits, you're mistaken. But, if they aren't from that source, where?

What "dialogue" are you referring to? I'm talking specifics here

What the hell are you even talking about? They didn't do any of this, and we only saw one Sith Lord in the attacking group.

If you are suggesting that they could do this, then I'd say "proof any of the Sith Lords could use the amulets to any degree higher than Ulic?". Anyways, they didn't do this because they had Naga Sadow's illusions, which would've conquered the Republic had they not been foiled.

I never said they were. I question the degree to which they can use them, although the more likely case is that there weren't any Sith Lords sky diving onto the battlefield, just to use something they - at the time - didn't need to use.

As well, I don't recall seeing every Sith Lord wearing one, I'll check tonight, but really - both the Jedi and Massassi had garb on their hands that resembles the gauntlets. I can only recall one pussy Sith Lord with an amulet during the battle. So, in this specific case, I would definitely wonder how effective he could wield the artifact.[/Quote]
I believe most of them have about one on each hand

Which means precisely dick. Where were these boasted powers against Darth Sidious? Oh, he turned his lightning against him. I'm blown away!

He's used Force crush one time, Exar Kun is far more adept at dark side powers, and his knowledge on them in above and beyond Mace's.

Originally posted by Lightsnake And again, did you forget how that little battle with Palpatine's lightning ended? If Yoda can take the energy the same way, then yes, it bodes badly for Kun, because he'll have it reflected right back at him.

They won't have to, because after the first dodge, Exar will be dead. In the EU, Yoda and Mace can move much faster than the eye can detect.

And I could've sworn Yoda and Mace aren't immobile either...If Exar misses, how will he even be able to recover in time? Oh, and does he move while he's using the beams? Kind of hard to tell in completely still pannels

Unless you ahve any proof of how fast Exar can move and if it's to their level, let me know

Great, I could just say Mace force crushes him before he has a chance to use the amulet or Yoda uses a force push to send him flying at the start.

Wow! So what? Last I checked, they move faster in the EU and do things quite a bit more impressive. I wasn't aware one made the other invalid.

Considering Obi-wan was fast enough to block Grievous's attacks, that's hardly saying much.S Should exar close his eyes, sense where they're going to dodge to and then fire? Seems unlikely there.

And Exar's still going to have to telegraph the attack by actually MOVING to fire the beam again, if we assume he can keep up the opponent.

Or are they not going to worry about killing him and just continue running around, rather than use the Force after the first dodge?

The fact remains that, at that point, Kyle had no way of knowing how to counter Jerec's abilities. And again: Kyle was able to use the wall of light ability on Jerec in their final battle.

Who wasn't Yoda or Mace. Irrelevant misdirection

No, they're weapons. And weapons never put to the test in a real combat scenarion against a real opponent who can actually stand a chance or surpass Exar in the force.

This is me paraphrasing, as I don't have my Hyperspace account anymore, but "Palpatine gifted Vader with one of Lord Kaan's Sith amulets, which Vader wore on his artifical right hand under a layer of Mandalorian crushgaunt."

The guy who rediscovered the lost Sith teachings and artifacts?

The one who ruled Almas with powerful Sith artifacts, created the Darkstaff and the dome of Almas?

She was the Dark Lady of the Sith and one who took special pride in her possessions and abilities. Again, we know the Sith of this era were equipped with Ancient Sith artifacts and amulets.

he wielded numerous Ancient Sith weapons in battle, according to what Abel wrote on him.

Yes: The one Palpatine gave Vader was also worn on his hand.

Because it's a type of amulet to be worn on one's hand? Do you ahve any points to the contrary?

Ok, so are his beams more powerful than a laser cannon from an AT AT? Which Luke is able to rather effortlessly block/absorb and deflect?

clone Wars adventures would be the ones there. And to my knowledge, mis there anything disproving them?

Anything showing that is not within his limits?

Last I checked, for someone like Yoda, that doesn't seem too much a stretch. Y'know, the 'most devastatingly powerful foe the Darkness had ever known?'

someone had to declare Ludo Kressh Dark Lord, build his tomb and then there were the 'Other Sith Lords' Naga Sadow mentions aboard his ship.

I'm referring to when the Jedi assaulted their homeworlds, actually. Now, whether they could use it to a greater degree isn't important. If these amulets are continuous

When they were losing the battles? When the Jedi invaded? If it's as simple as 'keep blasting' then...Whether it's as powerful as Exar's shoulder hardly matter

As well, I don't recall seeing every Sith Lord wearing one, I'll check tonight, but really - both the Jedi and Massassi had garb on their hands that resembles the gauntlets. I can only recall one pussy Sith Lord with an amulet during the battle. So, in this specific case, I would definitely wonder how effective he could wield the artifact.
I believe most of them have about one on each hand

Lightsnake, you're seriously borderline ridiculous. "Well Mace can just force crush" blah blah blah. Right, because Mace can use any abilities against another more powerful force user. That's one of the most retarded, and fanboyistic things i've ever heard. That's like me saying "oh Kreia will just instakill everyone therefore she pwns. Advent and Faunus have both proved their point, you haven't.

Originally posted by Faunus
With Yoda just barely containing it, then having it blow up in his face? That, with an attack of considerably less size than the amulet blasts. If Yoda tried to pull that against Kun, there'd be nothing left of him to mourn.

And do you have anything to support your presumed assumption that these have the same effect as Sadow's?