Muhammed- The Peadophile

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Over 5000 women and girls are killed every year by family members in so-called 'honour killings', according to the UN.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Honour killings do not appear in any other communities except Islamic.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Recorded public executions in Islamic countries.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Recorded public stonings in Islamic countries.

And HOW can you draw conclusions based on a few RECORDINGS. Thats exceedingly unacademic.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ridiculously overwhelmingly women, as recorded by Amnesty International, International Campagin against Honour Killings, Human Rights Watch.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Burqa-clad and veiled women and girls, beheadings, stoning to death, floggings, child sexual abuse in the name of marriage and sexual apartheid.

You are too ignorant to actually objectively analyze whats going on. Any single instance of poor behavior that happens to be in a predominately Muslim county is MAGICALLY the fault of Islam.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Get a book. And a brain.

Originally posted by muslimscholar
honour killings is not islamic who have read the quran and hadith and you know honour killing is not even allowed in islam so why blame it on islam?

Does anyone else find it strange that the only places in the world where Muslim's don't follow the practice of Honor Killings is in the West (where they still do even...)

But surely that cannot be caused by our secular history of morality and tolerance. People born in the West are just different than those in the middle east, and therefore less prone to violence for the same things that those in different parts of the world are. This has nothing to do with faith or religion, but in fact the heat or some other such politically correct explanation. My bet is on genetics, that way my obvious Islamophobia can be justified scientifically.

Perhaps we should PROVE that honor killings are a Muslim practice before we go leaping off to conclusions.

And "just born different?" Is this the fricking 1800s?

Originally posted by Alliance
Perhaps we should PROVE that honor killings are a Muslim practice before we go leaping off to conclusions.

I don't mind doing a bit of research, but just so I get this straight, is this your point:

Honor killings do not occur in Muslim countries.

Originally posted by Alliance
And "just born different?" Is this the fricking 1800s?

I was using sarcasm as a rhetorical device. Labeling people as "X"ophobic simply because they are willing to ask possibly offensive questions about why people believe or behave the way they do is retarded. The "phobics" have been thrown around too much in society, and it has generally restricted what is considered appropriate to discuss. I would rather hurt people's feelings and know.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't mind doing a bit of research, but just so I get this straight, is this your point:

Honor killings do not occur in Muslim countries.

I was using sarcasm as a rhetorical device. Labeling people as "X"ophobic simply because they are willing to ask possibly offensive questions about why people believe or behave the way they do is retarded. The "phobics" have been thrown around too much in society, and it has generally restricted what is considered appropriate to discuss. I would rather hurt people's feelings and know.

How are you doing inimalist?

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't mind doing a bit of research, but just so I get this straight, is this your point:

I've you've actually read my posts, my point is simple:

Honor killings do not happen as a result of Islam.

Originally posted by inimalist
I was using sarcasm as a rhetorical device. Labeling people as "X"ophobic simply because they are willing to ask possibly offensive questions about why people believe or behave the way they do is retarded. The "phobics" have been thrown around too much in society, and it has generally restricted what is considered appropriate to discuss. I would rather hurt people's feelings and know.

Honestly, I went quite a while before using that term. If someone is afraid of non-militants invading their contry and causing cultural degredation...that is xenophobia.

Originally posted by Alliance
I've you've actually read my posts, my point is simple:

Honor killings do not happen as a result of Islam.

Islam contributes nothing or that it is not the sole cause?

Originally posted by Alliance
Honestly, I went quite a while before using that term. If someone is afraid of non-militants invading their contry and causing cultural degredation...that is xenophobia.

lol, it wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular

sure, xenophobia may be a better word for it anyways

Originally posted by inimalist
Islam contributes nothing or that it is not the sole cause?

Contributes nothing significant.

Originally posted by Alliance
Contributes nothing significant.

So if I can find evidence that poor, disenfranchised religious people from another part of the world do not murder women in circumstances that people from the Islamic world do, would that be proof positive for me?

To me, to prove your claim, I'd have to see three things.

1. Direct evidence from Muslim holy texts that say that honor killings are appropraite actions given certain circumstance.

2. Honor killings have been practiced in these Muslim societies thoruought history.

3. Such practices are not practiced elsewhere for similar reasons.

That, to me, would present a fairly convincing argument.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Please do NOT bring up vilence against women in the USA and compare them to those of Middle East or any Mullah lead countries.

USA, actually, has a much better access and better founded women centres for domestic violence and rape, than many countries can speak of, actually, that includes England.
Their laws have recently been changed for domestic abuse, and rape. (to better) something we're still catching up on in England.

Due to non-bible wielding education, for most Americans, women in USA are more prone to reporting abuse, as they know there is help available to them.
You came up with report statistics yourself!

In Islamic countries this does not happen, and it is simple matter of fact. women are beaten, raped on daily bases, because according to Qur'an, husband can do so.
If a women is RAPED she needs to produce 5 withnesses, and if she does not, she is stoned for zina.
Women have noone to report it to.

Just recently, a woman was captured by Mullah militants, for peaceful protest, she was taken into custody, and repetedly analy raped with a baseball bat. Then she was released with tons of money on her, but died of internal injuries. They wont give girls body back to their parents.

So don't tell me about sensationalist news, because this kind of crap never makes it on many TVs in England or West.

You're right. Middle East is different now. It has turned into a breeding ground for extremist Allahtoyahs, who, not only are bleating hate to young Muslims in mosques, but are actually in power as well!!Women rights abuses are amongst worse in Islamic countries.

Furhtermore, comparing USA to any Middle Eastern country (or west for that matter) is absolutey ridiculous.
Women are still abused, but west has put so much money into developing programs, for both men and women, for rape victims, both men and women, for laws on rape and laws on domestic violence..etc, so comparing them is just silly.

Now we're getting somewhere. And, as I have expected, you have totally misread my point. My objective was not to explicitly compare violence against women in the US and in the "Middle East", but point out that we do not blame domestic violence in the US on Christian Values that support rape and domestic violence by pulling out random quotes from the Bible (just go have fun with it, particularly in Deuteronomy, Numbers, Judges, and Exodus). For some reason we expect that not all Christians follow the Bible's practices word-for-word(at least, the violent passages) and yet when we hear the word "Muslim" we automatically assume that they are fully devout to Islam, and therefore have every verse of the Qur'an memorized, follow it exactly, and pray at least 5 times a day. And of course, we then assume that this means all who follow Islam necessarily beat their wives on a daily basis and the women are unable to divorce because of the religion.

This is of course untrue. Both the Qur'an and Hadith condemn violence against woman and have ample discussion on the process of divorce, and notate that both men and women can file for divorce. It's not about what the religion says. It's about what people pick and chose to apply to them, about what's convenient and who has the power and what they chose to do with it. This is how it has always been with any sort of equality issue, whether it be based on gender, sexuality, race, etc., all over the world.

So, let's move on to sensationalist news. I'm not going to elaborate much on this one. Just watch/read your news for a week, which I assume you probably keep up with anyway. Count the number of times you hear/see the phrase "Islamic terrorist", or "Islamic" in conjunction with a violent act of any kind. Then count the number of time you hear about a "Christian rapist" or a "Christian serial killer" when the news reports on local stories. Be sure to ask your Islamic friends how they can resist not blowing themselves up in public places when their religion clearly states that they can and should do these things. Be sure to ask your Christian friends the same thing. Also contact the news source you watch/read the most and ask them why they don't run any stories on the women in "Middle East" who get up and go to work every day and live with their loving families.

Originally posted by Eis

I am not suggesting the Middle East should be perfect, I am just saying it could be better. And I am not denying that many muslim men don't beat their wives but I doubt they don't think it's fine to hit them every once in a while if they are "disobedient" because the Quran clearly says its fine.

Now tell me, isn't it ridiculous that a man to be charged of rape four other men must've witnessed the act (cause criminal actions always take place in public places with lots of witnesses). Isn't it disgusting what happened to Mahmoud Asgari and the other kid? That muslim women cannot divorce their husbands even if they beat them up?
The difference, Myownmuse, regarding domestic violence, is that in the US hitting your wife is illegal and it is grounds for arrest.

All those things you can trace back to the Islamic faith. The Bible may also teach atrocities but Christian-majority countries do not commit half the atrocities Islamic countries do.

As I said I am not on an anti-Islam crusade, I am simply saying that the current state of most Muslim nations are deplorable.

Every country has its improvements to make, especially in the area of human rights. Hell, humanity as a whole has its improvements to make. I've already more or less made my point with the post above (granted, in a rather exaggerating fashion), which is merely to state that we don't blame Christianity for our issues here, despite otherwise deplorable passages contained within the Bible, which is seems you are aware of, but on other extenuating factors. You can trace a lot of ideas back to Islamic faith, including incredibly peaceful ones. But, as I have said, it's about what's convenient to who has the money, and who's in power. I think blaming the "Middle East" problems on Islam is an over simplification of what's really going on, and for our part points out a measure of ignorance as to what the Qur'an does and does not say.

I really do encourage you to look into reading literature that has come out of Muslim societies in the last 80 years. Some more modern novels you probably would be able to find at your local library include The Journey of Ibn Fattouma by Naguib Mahfouz and Hope, and other Dangerous Pursuits by Laila Lalami. Both are quick reads illustrate well the function of Islam and how it is actually practiced in Muslim societies and how the public and reformers see the religion. There are a slew of short stories I would also recommend for the same reason if you wanted (many of these cover women's issues), but you may have issue finding them due to their scarcity in translated English.

Originally posted by Alliance
To me, to prove your claim, I'd have to see three things.

1. Direct evidence from Muslim holy texts that say that honor killings are appropraite actions given certain circumstance.

2. Honor killings have been practiced in these Muslim societies thoruought history.

3. Such practices are not practiced elsewhere for similar reasons.

That, to me, would present a fairly convincing argument.

Can I argue that Islam is diverse today and throughout time instead of it being static? certain things would have waxed and wained given who was in charge.

The Holy text thing is interpretation as well. I would never deny that a holy book contains contradictions, but what if I could find say a video of someone claiming that that were motivated strictly by Allah? Would an individual's admission of their action being motivated by Islamic Holy text followed by even some semblance of a quote suffice?

I think the quickest parallel off the top of my head is Buddhist monks and their struggle for Tibet. They have adopted a hard line stance and delved deep into orthodoxy, however because of their faith's teachings, the only harm they would do is to themselves in protest.

So Iran has homosexuality issues. Now is this an Iranian issue or an Islamic issue?

Can you address my comments or no?

How do you define accept...written into law? Because honor killings in Turkey aren't supported by the government or Islam...yet they happen anyway. Now, is that a CULTURAL problem, or religious problem?

Or you could simply be saying that all Muslims defend that type of behaviour. And since you seem to not like to distinguish between majority Muslim nations and Islamic nations, between one Muslim and another, and between the state and Islam, I don't really know what you are saying. Simple clarifier's would be in order.

I doubt that. But oh well, I guess the world is real clear at 15. Not that its clear at 20, but I do have more experience than you do.

If you don't understand sarcasm, don't try it.

Originally posted by MyOwnMuse
[B]Every country has its improvements to make, especially in the area of human rights. Hell, humanity as a whole has its improvements to make. I've already more or less made my point with the post above (granted, in a rather exaggerating fashion), which is merely to state that we don't blame Christianity for our issues here, despite otherwise deplorable passages contained within the Bible, which is seems you are aware of, but on other extenuating factors. You can trace a lot of ideas back to Islamic faith, including incredibly peaceful ones. But, as I have said, it's about what's convenient to who has the money, and who's in power. I think blaming the "Middle East" problems on Islam is an over simplification of what's really going on, and for our part points out a measure of ignorance as to what the Qur'an does and does not say.

I really do encourage you to look into reading literature that has come out of Muslim societies in the last 80 years. Some more modern novels you probably would be able to find at your local library include The Journey of Ibn Fattouma by Naguib Mahfouz and Hope, and other Dangerous Pursuits by Laila Lalami. Both are quick reads illustrate well the function of Islam and how it is actually practiced in Muslim societies and how the public and reformers see the religion. There are a slew of short stories I would also recommend for the same reason if you wanted (many of these cover women's issues), but you may have issue finding them due to their scarcity in translated English.

It's amazing how Alliance has only asked one question, and not only has it not been answered, but it's tearing apart the whole Islam is sick and evil thing. I mean it's just common sense, and I've said this in the past aswell, that Muhammed (and many other prophets during and before) were exactly the same, some were worse. For example, Jacob had two wives, the first one he was tricked into marrying. He had I think 12 sons 10 from the first, 2 from the secong (the one he truly loved) and that his final son (who was only adolescent) was abandended by his adult brothers and sold to slavery, to where he desgised himself as king and freed his family who also became slaves shortly after. This story is in the Bible as a moral! So don't bash Muhammed for having sex with a 9 year old. The guys who wrote the Bible tricked you into thinking the whole Earth flooded. That IMO is worse because it damaged society's perspective and made it blind.

I doubt anyone here thinks "Islam is evil because Muhammed had a nine year old wife" it is more of a challenge to Muslim people's faith. How could god's prophet behave in a way that many (probably most) muslims today, very much disagree with.

Originally posted by lord xyz
It's amazing how Alliance has only asked one question, and not only has it not been answered, but it's tearing apart the whole Islam is sick and evil thing. I mean it's just common sense, and I've said this in the past aswell, that Muhammed (and many other prophets during and before) were exactly the same, some were worse. For example, Jacob had two wives, the first one he was tricked into marrying. He had I think 12 sons 10 from the first, 2 from the secong (the one he truly loved) and that his final son (who was only adolescent) was abandended by his adult brothers and sold to slavery, to where he desgised himself as king and freed his family who also became slaves shortly after. This story is in the Bible as a moral! So don't bash Muhammed for having sex with a 9 year old. The guys who wrote the Bible tricked you into thinking the whole Earth flooded. That IMO is worse because it damaged society's perspective and made it blind.

Originally posted by MyOwnMuse

I really do encourage you to look into reading literature that has come out of Muslim societies in the last 80 years. Some more modern novels you probably would be able to find at your local library include The Journey of Ibn Fattouma by Naguib Mahfouz and Hope, and other Dangerous Pursuits by Laila Lalami. Both are quick reads illustrate well the function of Islam and how it is actually practiced in Muslim societies and how the public and reformers see the religion. There are a slew of short stories I would also recommend for the same reason if you wanted (many of these cover women's issues), but you may have issue finding them due to their scarcity in translated English.

what about Sayyid Qutb?

Originally posted by lord xyz
This story is in the Bible as a moral!